‘The Odyssey’ Proves It: Audiences Want Movies Made the Hard Way | This year's breakouts like 'Project Hail Mary' and 'Obsession' were made by filmmakers who sweated. While CG-stuffed franchise disappointments such as 'Supergirl,' 'Moana,' and 'The Mandalorian and Grogu' looked lazy.

[u/ChiefLeef22]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/odyssey-box-office-2026-practical-effects-1236652219/

[u/smalltalk2k]

A good story goes a long way. Let's start there. 

[u/wagon_ear → u/smalltalk2k]

The Odyssey takes recycling old IP almost to its full conclusion. The only thing that could top it is if someone remade the epic of Gilgamesh. 

[u/Dontshootmepeas → u/wagon_ear]

Kind of surprised no one has yet

[u/bentbabe → u/Dontshootmepeas]

There's still a bunch of it missing. Which is probably a factor.

[u/Dontshootmepeas → u/bentbabe]

That allows creative freedom though.

[u/cineglitch → u/Dontshootmepeas]

In before a bunch of people on Reddit complain about the historical accuracy of Enkidu.

[u/BigCommieMachine → u/cineglitch]

I am not kidding when I say that American “Christians” would probably take offense to it because it resembles the Bible too much.

[u/BFroog → u/BigCommieMachine]

Also lots of gay.

[u/Herlt → u/BFroog]

gilgamesh gone woke

[u/grizonyourface → u/Herlt]

Gilgaymesh amirite

[u/Wild_Harvest → u/Herlt]

Gilgamesh: Do you dare presume to think I would consider the lives of those beneath me, MONGREL?!?

Gates of Babylon open and throw endless numbers of weapons

[u/XIIISkies → u/BFroog]

Not gay if clay

[u/cogman10 → u/BigCommieMachine]

Who cares what they think, they get offended when women step out of the kitchen.

There's not been a blockbuster movie in the last 40 years where you can't find some fundi christian getting huffy over some "immoral" aspect.

These people are a shrinking minor demographic.

[u/Starbucks__Lovers → u/Dontshootmepeas]

We fell for that with game of thrones 

[u/Earthpig_Johnson → u/Starbucks__Lovers]

Time to start harassing the writer of the Epic of Gilgamesh until they finish it.

[u/krombough → u/Earthpig_Johnson]

He's been too busy trying to return some dogshit copper.

[u/Mr_Piddles → u/Earthpig_Johnson]

I’m just going to get my pitchforks ready for when they don’t make it gay enough.

[u/Animajation → u/Earthpig_Johnson]

Ohh I love a good séance

[u/SirJack3 → u/Dontshootmepeas]

Creative freedom? So an AI can fill out the blanks! ~ a producer, somewhere

[u/Prudent-Marsupial-42 → u/SirJack3]

We can add Poochie into it seamlessly

[u/Zachariot88 → u/Prudent-Marsupial-42]

(Poochie died on his way back to Mesopotamia)

[u/saphiki → u/bentbabe]

didn't stop game of thrones

[u/awpdownmid → u/saphiki]

It did though, that show's legacy died and along with it millions of revenue.

[u/SnooBooks1243 → u/Dontshootmepeas]

Fate/Stay series leads me to believe Japan has tried to fully control the Gilgamesh market.

[u/dennisasu → u/SnooBooks1243]

He's also a summon in a few Final Fantasy games

[u/cmnrdt → u/Dontshootmepeas]

I mean, Gilgamesh doesn't so much have a narrative as much as it's a series of fanciful exploits that are all attributed to the same person. It would be hard to adapt into a ~2 hour movie without taking a lot of liberties with the source material, and by that point it's an entirely different kind of story.

[u/krunamey → u/cmnrdt]

Feels like it could work if they gave it pacing similar to something like The Green Knight

[u/TheWatersOfMars → u/krunamey]

It's actually a surprisingly similar vibe. Gilgamesh's journey to find immortality after the death of his best friend is melancholy and heartwrenching. I'm sure there's a great modern Hollywood script in there somewhere.

[u/TheVich → u/cmnrdt]

How about a miniseries?

[u/Mediocre_Scott → u/cmnrdt]

It’s weird as hell too don’t forget that

[u/Jonthrei → u/Mediocre_Scott]

Nothing weird about a goddess fucking civilization into a wild man

[u/Oy_of_Mid-world → u/Dontshootmepeas]

Remember what they did to Beowulf? Just kidding. I didn't watch it, either.

[u/Jonthrei → u/Oy_of_Mid-world]

The 13th Warrior was actually a pretty solid adaptation of Beowulf, tbh.

[u/Aiseadai → u/Oy_of_Mid-world]

I actually liked that movie, especially the first half. It was some pretty effective horror.

[u/Spiritual_Corner_977 → u/Dontshootmepeas]

They aren’t ready for boy love on the big screen

[u/BulLock_954 → u/wagon_ear]

Nolan read your comment and will now be making the Epic of Gilgamesh next in a cave, with a box of scraps

[u/LiterallyJoeStalin → u/BulLock_954]

with a box of scraps

Don’t be rude, identify him by his name, Matt Damon. 

[u/Synicull → u/LiterallyJoeStalin]

I volunteer to be a box of scraps if I too get to look that good and have that much money at his age

[u/feartheoldblood90 → u/wagon_ear]

We need to re-enter the era when Hollywood was pumping out big epics with insane amounts of actors and extras on huge sets that they would, like, flood with biblical amounts of water or light on fire or redirect a meteor from space to hit, all while 50 synchronized swimmers danced in a pool the size of Manhattan

[u/droidtron → u/feartheoldblood90]

20 good men died, but we got the shot.

[u/BattledroidE → u/droidtron]

The boom mic was in frame, let's do it again.

[u/imnotreallyapenguin → u/feartheoldblood90]

Im still waiting on the film adaptation of Gates of Fire..

Come on hollywood... swords and sandals epics are cool again!

[u/cherinator → u/feartheoldblood90]

We still have Indian cinema for that at least, and it is glorious.

[u/MontyAtWork → u/feartheoldblood90]

I've been watching movies from the 70s-90s and that's something I've noticed happened WAY more: multiple crowd shots and scenes with people moving through crowds.

Those places felt real and inhabited.

[u/HiddenCity → u/wagon_ear]

until someone writes a story specifically inspired by a cave painting.

[u/CriticalEngineering → u/HiddenCity]

Werner Herzog has done it.

[u/Individual_Rip_54 → u/wagon_ear]

Nolan had to do some work to update the morality of the odyssey. Updating the morality of Gilgamesh would be as hard as making it.

[u/droidtron → u/Individual_Rip_54]

Rape king finds maybe rape only half the time, and loves his beast man.

[u/obeytheturtles → u/droidtron]

He rapes. But he saves more than he rapes.

[u/zatalak → u/droidtron]

Don't lose yourself in what you love?

[u/Ion_bound → u/Individual_Rip_54]

Eh, the actual moral of Gilgamesh is 'The King's decision to rape the women of his country was, in fact, awful and the gods punished him for it. He was a terrible ruler and through the events of this tale, he redeemed himself and became a better and wise one'.

[u/AnAncientBog → u/Ion_bound]

'The King's decision to rape the women of his country was, in fact, awful and the gods punished him for it. He was a terrible ruler and through the events of this tale, he redeemed himself and became a better and wise one...

...by enslaving men instead.

[u/pjtheman → u/AnAncientBog]

Baby steps.

[u/Slow_Werewolf3021 → u/smalltalk2k]

It’s hard to believe we have to keep repeating this to the bigwigs over and over again, time and time again… it’s always been about telling good stories. That’s what cinema is all about, good TV series, and of course books… well, water is wet and the sky is blue. Welcome to our era

[u/astroK120 → u/Slow_Werewolf3021]

I do think there's some other piece to this. There are movies every year that have this sub going "This movie deserved better!" after bombing despite being good.

[u/super_cheap_007 → u/smalltalk2k]

Absolutely. An entire movie could ve made via practical effects but if the story sucks, Im not wasting my time or money. A good story and well shot film will absolutely get my ass into a chair at the theater. 

[u/CombatMuffin → u/super_cheap_007]

It's not just the story. The filmmaking matters: the sound, the cinematography, the editing, the acting.

Plenty of amazing stories are badly translated to film.

[u/Fn_Spaghetti_Monster → u/CombatMuffin]

The filmmaking matters:

Prime example is the LOTR vs The Hobbit movies.

[u/EdenIsNotHere → u/Fn_Spaghetti_Monster]

I'd say The Hobbit isn't the case of the filmmaking itself being bad being the main issue, but rather an studio trying to rush an adaptation of a short, lighthearted children's story, which is completely different from the LoTR saga in terms of tone and scope, into 3 three hour movies.

[u/gozutheDJ → u/EdenIsNotHere]

yeah there's absolutely no reason for the hobbit to be a 3 movie series

[u/FCalleja → u/gozutheDJ]

Exactly, the issue is technically still a bad story. They took an incredible story and padded it to hell and back, to the point it's no longer a good narrative experience. The filmaking would've been FINE if it was just one movie, honestly. We nitpick it because it sucks.

[u/SmallLetter → u/FCalleja]

Padded to Hell and Back again: A The Hobbit Trilogy's tale

[u/longjumpingtote → u/super_cheap_007]

An entire movie could ve made via practical effects but if the story sucks, Im not wasting my time or money.

Yep. And both the Odyssey and PHM had loads of computer visual effects and other computer work, just look at the credits. Nolan has said he's more reliant on them than any other director. Scylla was CGI, DNEG did a lot with backgrounds.

Mostly they are invisible, and in PHM they didn't use green screen, but that's just one technical choice.

[u/dwadley → u/longjumpingtote]

Also “no green screen” usually just means a lot of manual rotoscoping which gives the same end effect. Just more work from the artists

[u/whichwitch9 → u/super_cheap_007]

Let's also not forget- Jurassic Park was an early user of cgi. It was the combination of cgi, practical effects, and the pace of the movie that made it work. You seriously need everything to come together to create a good movie. One of the best scenes- the Trex breaking the car roof- is a literal on set accident, but the actors did not break character and the movie used their genuine reactions to the animatronic Trex. The first Iron Man is another example of combined practical and cgi effects- which also gave it a benefit of having a brighter color palate while not looking cartoony by not either using off putting cgi or darkening it to hide flaws in cgi.

Spiderman is another example- Doc Oc was much better in Spiderman 2 compared to the most recent one. But even the actor found the overuse in green screens off putting and hard to play against. He didn't do a bad job, but his performance in Spiderman 2 is easily better.

We're losing a lot by using too much cgi, tbh. It's not just how it looks, but it's the actors, too. Practical effects provide more routes for creating genuine and unique performances. Green screens force everything to be exactly as scripted with little chance for change, even if change could be better. I honestly believe it's why actors seem so bland lately- they don't have to work on their craft and all are conforming to the same styles for various reasons

[u/astroK120 → u/whichwitch9]

One thing I do think gets lost in these discussions is that sometimes CGI is the right tool for the job. Jurassic Park is a great example. It was a mix of practical where it was possible and CGI where it wasn't. I don't think a flat out refusal to use CGI makes movies better. Oppenheimer in particular I think would have been better if Nolan hadn't done the bomb with practical effects.

[u/originalcondition → u/astroK120]

The CGI in Jurassic Park was also applied very, very carefully and intelligently. They knew it'd look best in low light, with rain often obscuring it. They knew that placing shots of practical effects among the shots of CGI would lend to the reality of the entire scene.

Now it feels like CGI is used for everything within the scene regardless of how good it'll look and how real it'll feel, because it's simply cheaper to underpay CGI artists rather than bother with any careful application of the tech or peppering in any practical effects.

I'm an animator myself and don't want to discredit the artists working on the CGI but if their career is anything like mine, they're frequently underpaid and overworked on shoestring budgets and breakneck schedules with tons of revisions that they don't really have time to accommodate, but will try to anyway because they're artists and want to do a good job.

[u/longjumpingtote → u/smalltalk2k]

Yes. PHM was a great story, adapted by one of the best screenwriters in Hollywood, one of the best director (teams), with great characters and the perfect actor for the role. That's the "hard way" part, getting all that talent together.

[u/Chaosmusic → u/smalltalk2k]

Yeah, the CGI was not the problem. Superman had a lot of CGI, but it was a good movie. I was expecting more of that from Supergirl. It was OK, but fell far short after Superman. Same with Mandalorian. It was OK as well, but felt it should have been a lot more after the series ended.

[u/sadir → u/Chaosmusic]

Ya on the cgi part, mando was full of practical effects and sets. Like the whole selling point of grogu is he's a cute realistic puppet baby.

[u/deraser → u/smalltalk2k]

That’s really the issue with many recent films, especially reboots and sequels. The writing is just not good. The film needs a good base that the director, actors, and everyone else can build on.

[u/ThinkThankThonk → u/deraser]

All the good writers are making limited series now (and probably very frequently being told to stretch their feature scripts into 6+ episodes).

I love limited series, but I do miss mid-budget features a lot. Not every story has the material to stretch beyond 2 hours, no matter how well it's written.

[u/Dreadedvegas → u/smalltalk2k]

Yeah its more on the quality of storytelling the past few years has been horrid.

Good stories do well? Who would have thought lol

[u/whichwitch9 → u/Dreadedvegas]

Hollywood needs more script writers out of Hollywood. They have a huge problem with scripts becoming more insular to the Hollywood culture and not resonating with the general public. Even The Oddessy is a victim of needing to retread an old, known story to interest audiences. They aren't telling new stories that interest people, and studios need to get out of their own way to find people telling stories the general public wants to hear

[u/roberta_sparrow → u/whichwitch9]

Been saying that for so long, but I think studios are very averse to risk with scripts that don’t follow a formula or use reliable tropes. However look what happened with Backrooms and Obsession - audiences are so thirsty for that type of content

[u/Training_Pirate1000]

Didn't Mandalorian and Grogu use a decent amount of puppets?

[u/Calfzilla2000 → u/Training_Pirate1000]

Yes, a ton actually. There was several scenes that were all puppets. They built a tiny ship for the Anzellans and Grogu to fly around in.

Unnecessary to include that movie in with Moana and Supergirl (the latter of which I liked too but probably had A LOT more CGI than The Mandalorian and Grogu did).

[u/jpvieux → u/Calfzilla2000]

Did supergirl or mando even flop Or are they included just cause they didnt make a billion money's and a certain crowd online like to be very vocal about their hate for certain groups? I think we need to reevaluate what we consider successful.

[u/DGanj → u/jpvieux]

Supergirl absolutely did. It's not going to ruin the studio but it was a failure (from a ROI standpoint)

[u/Morgan-Moonscar → u/DGanj]

And unless Clayface and Superman II (Man of Tomorrow) make a lot more, it's gonna ruin a few careers.

[u/KitWalkerXXVII → u/Morgan-Moonscar]

Clayface's budget is being cited as $40 million, which is pretty modest by studio feature standards. Not saying it's a guaranteed hit, but it would have to bomb pretty hard to flop.

[u/Master_Bruce → u/KitWalkerXXVII]

And I mean, the Clayface story is great, so it’d be really hard to fuck it up

[u/Josh_Butterballs → u/Master_Bruce]

Great movies can still flop. Conversely, bad movies have done really well before at the box office. Shawshank Redemption is a famous example of a good movie failing at the box office when it released

[u/djc6535 → u/Master_Bruce]

Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow is a great story too. Anything can be fucked up.

[u/Muppetude → u/jpvieux]

I think Mandalorian was just a box office disappointment, making way less money than predicted. But Supergirl was a bonafied flop, where it did not earn back its production and marketing budget.

[u/PartyPay → u/Muppetude]

I've seen lots of people online say M&G was a fun movie, not amazing but still worth the watch. Feels like a bad include on the article's list.

[u/Nihil157 → u/PartyPay]

I think it fit right in with the show but could have just been another season basically. They saw the extra money and went for it. It didn’t ruin any of the franchise but didn’t really advance much either.

[u/PENGUIN_WITH_BAZOOKA → u/Muppetude]

Mando is probably going to take off once it arrives on Disney+.

[u/abetterroadahead → u/PENGUIN_WITH_BAZOOKA]

I’ve been saying this since the initial box office numbers were coming in. It was never going to be a disappointment to Disney/Star Wars. Having it in theaters helped gain a lot of money back, not all, but the rest will come from D+ numbers, engagement, and viewership.

[u/SpideyFan914 → u/jpvieux]

Not sure about Mando, but Supergirl flopped hard. As of yesterday, it made $121M worldwide. Budget is $170-186M.

[u/pants_pants420 → u/SpideyFan914]

mando was about ~$350 million on a $165 million budget. not quite a flop, but definitely a bit of a disappointment

[u/Doctor_Kataigida → u/pants_pants420]

One thing that's so hard to take into account now is how many people would have seen it, but aren't because they're just waiting for it to come out on streaming. Like, I love the original Moana, and I am curious to see the new one. But I heard it's not great.

And while that used to not be enough to deter me (because I would've had to purchase a VHS/DVD anyway), now I can at least entertain the idea of just having a "movie night" with no (additional) cost (since I have D+ for other reasons anyway) instead of seeing it in the theater. I imagine folks approached Mandalorian and Grogu a similar way.

[u/ledbetterus → u/Doctor_Kataigida]

Plus Star Wars fans, especially fans who started with The Mandalorian, have been watching the franchise on Disney+ for 7+ years. The theater is like a completely different ecosystem for a lot fans.

[u/Jolly-Potential-1411 → u/Training_Pirate1000]

They did. Jon was pretty clear about being dedicated to old-school techniques and practical effects.

[u/OnceMoreAndAgain → u/Jolly-Potential-1411]

The premise of this article is non-sense. I don't think anyone actually cares if people make movies "the hard way".

It's so simple: If the movie is entertaining, then people will like it. How to make a movie entertaining? Yeah, that's the fucking hard part. You can't just say how in one sentence or distill it down to one concept. Some of the most entertaining movies ever made took big shortcuts, like The Blair Witch Project.

More evidence is that so many older movies are still highly entertaining despite relatively simple methods of filming. 12 Angry Men is an extremely simple movie to film and yet it's so entertaining even today.

[u/SandpaperTeddyBear → u/OnceMoreAndAgain]

If the movie is entertaining

Let's say, instead, engaging. And the things that our brains find engaging can be awfully hard to pin down, but one thing I feel pretty comfortable is necessary is "the not-quite-expected." And yes, a good story should thread the needle between novelty and surprise, and good acting should strike a balance between relatable and unexplainable, and many other things…

But I think one reason why typical junk made in the '80s and '90s is more engaging to watch than fairly well-made contemporary stuff is because that "not-quite-expected" extends to the way that things move (clothing fluttering in the breeze), and the way the light is just a little uneven when it's in a real place.

I've always found it easier to stare into a campfire for an hour or two than watch "just OK" television, even though the pretty good television assuredly has a much better script, much better story, etc. And I think shooting movies in real places has a similar vibe.

I think that's why I actually found Mandalorian and Grogu so easy to watch. Lots of reality there.

[u/BonjaminClay → u/Training_Pirate1000]

Yeah I know it's trendy to hate on but that movie doesn't belong next to Supergirl and definitely not next to Moana.

Moana was a nostalgia remake made too early for anyone to have nostalgia because The Rock is getting old. It was pure cash grab and nobody was asking for it.

Mando is a movie based on a very popular show with an original story continuing the saga. I think the complaints that it was basically a slightly higher budget mini season 4 are valid... But there was demand, it wasn't a lazy rehash, and there was a TON of love and effort into it with lots of exceptional sets, puppets, and detail. I won't argue it's high art but comparing it to a Moana style cash grab is disingenuous at least.

[u/round-earth-theory → u/BonjaminClay]

It was a fun movie. I think people are mostly annoyed at how poorly managed Star Wars is and so they took it out on Mando. It's fair enough to say the movie doesn't make waves in any way, but it was a good "just watch it" movie.

[u/ASuarezMascareno → u/Training_Pirate1000]

And both Projects Hail Mary and the Odyssey use a ton of GCI.

[u/iamadragan → u/Training_Pirate1000]

I really didn't see what all the fuss was about with the hate for that movie. It was a fun star wars movie that was admittedly cheesy at times but so are all star wars movies

[u/Posty_Baloney → u/iamadragan]

Its mostly because Star Wars used to be a huge event, but with how much they've been churning out (and how much of it was pretty mediocre), this movie was just kind of whatever. A season of TV edited to be feature length and it was just okay. Yeah, most of the movies range from okay to down-right terrible, but it used to invoke a certain magic in both kids and adults thats just gone now.

Like, the first Star Wars movie in 7 years should have been a HUGE deal, instead it was more like "oh. More star wars. Cool. Maybe ill check it out if I have time".

Hate might be a strong word, I think it's more a collective sense of apathy for the state of the franchise.

[u/tombrady011235 → u/iamadragan]

Cheesy is a feature not a bug in Star Wars

[u/Hufa123 → u/iamadragan]

Agreed. It was a fun adventure, and not much more than that, but it wasn't less than that either. Sure, I'd preferred to see some more thematic development in it, but I still enjoyed it. And that's the important part.

[u/Jagrnght → u/Training_Pirate1000]

I kinda loved this movie and the way they used the whole gamut of special effects - practical to cgi.

[u/Comprehensive_Dog651]

Meanwhile highest grossing film of the year so far: Super Mario Brothers Galaxy

[u/Muroid → u/Comprehensive_Dog651]

It may have been full of CGI, but it was created by a team working on location in an actual galaxy.

[u/Enderwiggen33 → u/Muroid]

Do you have a source for this? Doesn’t sound too believable

[u/blueblurz94 → u/Enderwiggen33]

My uncle works at Nintendo, and he said the film’s production was done within the Milky Way and Melty Monster Galaxies

[u/someguyfromtecate → u/blueblurz94]

Sounds like your typical story of a guy working the Nintendo hotline providing gaming advice and cheat codes to moving all the way up to making movies in other galaxies. I’ve heard it before many times.

[u/Hayterfan → u/Muroid]

Unfortunately Illumination forgot to give everyone space suits, so they had to share the 3 they had amongst 100+ people

[u/DerekPaxton → u/Comprehensive_Dog651]

Yeah, there isn’t an eye roll big enough for these types of articles. Hand pick a few data points then “prove” some point.

Disneys real life remakes “prove” that fans highly prefer animated and cgi features right?

Good story, compelling visuals, great acting and directing. The fans don’t really care how you get there.

[u/RefinedBean → u/[deleted]]

I remember people memeing on the Illumination choice by Nintendo for the movie, but they knocked it out of the park. Their standards plus over three decades of art direction and design by Nintendo? It was always going to at the very least look visually sumptuous.

[u/TheDarkAbove → u/RefinedBean]

I only remember the memes about the casting of Mario

[u/StuckAroundGotStuck → u/TheDarkAbove]

Dunkey's reaction video to the cast list still gets quoted every time my wife or I see Chris Pratt in something.

[u/thats-impossible → u/StuckAroundGotStuck]

He's so cool

[u/Unusual-Locksmith832 → u/StuckAroundGotStuck]

One of the videos I laughed the hardest because it literally looked like a joke Dunkey himself would've made if he could pick the cast.

[u/CarrotJunkie → u/[deleted]]

It's interesting because Illumination used to be the budget animation studio focused mainly on cost cutting. They've come a long way as far as animation quality goes. The Mario movies look incredible.

[u/kikimaru024 → u/CarrotJunkie]

Every single one of their movies has grossed over $100 million, and 11 of them got past $250 million.

Safe to say they've been able to use more budget/time as required.

[u/woolfonmynoggin → u/[deleted]]

That minions and monsters movie had me cackling in the theater. Old Hollywood gags and references every few minutes and a really creative story structure which you should not look up beforehand

[u/YoyodyneCog → u/woolfonmynoggin]

My girlfriend and I took her daughter to see the Minions movie over the weekend. I think we enjoyed it more than she did. The minions reenacting the launch scene from A Trip to the Moon isn't something I thought I would ever see, and the Citizen Kane gag was the best kind of stupid and had me laughing my ass off.

[u/rectuSinister → u/woolfonmynoggin]

Absolutely loved that movie and had very low expectations

[u/Dycon67 → u/Comprehensive_Dog651]

Low-key the cgi in that one looks great. Maona, Supergirl by comparison look dull.

[u/orange_sox → u/Dycon67]

Supergirl has the most beautiful source material of any comic book movie - it is a shame they didn't take any inspiration from that.

[u/sgeep → u/orange_sox]

I literally bought the comic after the trailer because I was intrigued. I absolutely adored the comic. Beautifully illustrated and a really great tale about a quest for revenge. Loved the dynamic and thought Supergirl as a character in it was really compelling

It almost feels insulting that they touted how much the comic was an inspiration for the movie when in reality it felt loosely based and washed out/dull

[u/TheWatersOfMars → u/sgeep]

And almost everything bad about the Supergirl movie (which I still thought was OK) comes down to pointlessly changing the comic. Making Krem a goofy monster man, the rushed adventure with a 3-day ticking clock, the way every scene devolves into pointless action, the underwhelming and morally muddy standoff with Ruthye...

[u/jinyx1 → u/orange_sox]

It feels like a movie where they popped 5 different scripts from good movies + the source material into ChatGPT and asked to make a supergirl movie using the source material and elements from those 5 scripts.

There's a good movie in there somewhere, but it needed alot more refinement.

[u/dont_ama_73]

Toy story 5 and Super Mario also shows that people want to see sequels.

[u/whitepangolin → u/dont_ama_73]

Every fucking time an original film does well, there's this exact article saying moviegoers are tired of IP - meanwhile IP still dominates. Has anyone considered that uh, maybe not all IP are created equal? And some put butts in seats and some don't?

[u/Icy_Smoke_733 → u/dont_ama_73]

Spider-Man and Doomsday are shaping up to be monsters and guaranteed to be the top highest grossing movies of the year, judging by presales. We're looking at a floor of $1.5 billion for both (Brand New Day is tracking to $600 million in just its opening weekend).

[u/ThisHatRightHere → u/Icy_Smoke_733]

Spider-Man has always had insane draw and the “everyone’s back” marketing is (for better or worse) working for Avengers. These are more so anomalies and other films in the space don’t have the same advantages.

[u/deadheffer → u/ThisHatRightHere]

Every single small child right now adores Spider-Man. All of those kids and their parents are going to see that film. It’s going to be nuts.

[u/littlebrwnrobot → u/deadheffer]

Been true for like 25 years at least lol

[u/deadheffer → u/littlebrwnrobot]

It’s more of the merch. Jesus the merchandising in the 2020s is beyond insane

[u/Wetzilla → u/littlebrwnrobot]

Spiderman has had a cartoon aimed at kids on the air basically constantly since 1994. There were a few breaks in the 2000's, but there's only been 8 years since 1994 without a Spiderman cartoon currently running.

Also shoutout to Spectacular Spiderman (2008-2009). That show ruled.

[u/mlorusso4 → u/deadheffer]

Every single small child for the last 40 years adores spider man. And that fandom doesn’t go away as the person ages. It’s seriously insane how long he has been at the top of pop culture. Usually with characters like Mickey Mouse and Winnie the Pooh parents remember those characters from their childhood and want to get their kids into them too, but they don’t stay fans of them throughout their young adulthood like spider man

[u/literated → u/mlorusso4]

Every single small child for the last 40 years adores spider man.

I don't even know why but I do, too, lmao. That's exactly how it was for me growing up. Spider-Man just hit different.

[u/GormlessGourd55 → u/ThisHatRightHere]

It helps that Spiderman has a great track record of movie quality in recent years. All three of the Live action ones have been good and Spiderverse is obviously stellar.

Bonus, the spider-related duds of Kraven and Madame Web didn't feature any Spiderman so he was saved from their stink.

[u/Redeem123 → u/ThisHatRightHere]

These are more so anomalies

And the three movies in the title aren't? Feels an awful lot like cherry picking.

[u/Good-Cap-7632 → u/dont_ama_73]

Kid movies work differently. Parents want movies they know are safe to take their kids to so franchise sequels are always popular.

[u/urgasmic]

cherry picking like crazy but sure.

[u/dwide_k_shrude → u/urgasmic]

Yeah this article is stupid.

[u/sundler → u/dwide_k_shrude]

It's also very insulting to all the artists who make those computer graphics. As if they don't work just as hard.

[u/fascfoo → u/sundler]

Yup. This just pushes this CGI bad narrative when its BAD CGI thats bad. Great CGI is basically invisible. Now well just have more filmmakers essentially lying by saying they're doing everything "in camera" in promo material.

[u/f0xD3N → u/fascfoo]

Not to mention PHM and The Odyssey both feature tons of CGI

[u/ringwraithfish → u/dwide_k_shrude]

The fact they included "The Mandalorian and Grogu" at the same level of "CGI-stuffed" movies like Supergirl and Moana tells me it's a worthless article.

Putting opinions of the movie aside, The Mandalorian and Grogu were heavy in practical effects.

[u/Worthyness → u/ringwraithfish]

And say what you want about the state of star wars, but their vfx work is fucking immaculate every time. Even in rise of Skywalker the vfx work is incredible.

[u/yes_ur_wrong → u/dwide_k_shrude]

yeah are we just upvoting anything that says Odyssey good?

[u/dalivo → u/urgasmic]

And the author picks a cherry and then an apple. Project Hail Mary had a ton of CGI. Mando had a ton of practical effects. Guess what? A good story and great characters matter the most.

[u/xin234 → u/dalivo]

I loved Project Hail Mary, and consumed almost every behind-the-scenes, interviews, etc. of it, and even the directors mention that most of the time you see Rocky on screen he is CGI. It's a disservice to the VFX team who made that movie great, to downplay the work they had to do.

Here's an interesting video about the topic of PHM's CGI from Corridor Crew: https://youtu.be/l9zqIo8KtjI?t=512

[u/stomp224 → u/urgasmic]

Masters of the Universe tanked, and from all the BTS clips theyve released, it looks like they did quite a lot of practical work too

[u/m2thek]

Man, the guy who makes the "No CGI is Just Invisible CGI" videos is never gonna run out of material

[u/monkpunch → u/m2thek]

He already made one on Nolan a few days ago (and touches on the Odyssey)

https://youtu.be/AFLcP-t0-kI?si=WpzUpUvV6-rC25_B

[u/Quantum_Quokkas]

Does this article author not realise that Project Hail Mary was full of CGI?

[u/RulesoftheDada → u/Quantum_Quokkas]

Same with Odyssey and ignores all the practical effects and puppetry of Mando and Grogu.

[u/JamesTheFoxeArt → u/RulesoftheDada]

No you see they actually found a Cyclops to film in the movie

[u/ObscureOP → u/JamesTheFoxeArt]

On location in hades

[u/farnsw0rth → u/ObscureOP]

They really buried those people though

[u/pm_plz_im_lonely → u/JamesTheFoxeArt]

The Cyclops guild is ruthlessly hard to deal with too (read: really expensive). It's like they only want to see a deal from one perspective.

[u/Mahajangasuchus → u/Quantum_Quokkas]

“CGI” is basically meaningless now in mainstream film discussion. All it means is “visual effect I don’t like or noticed”.

[u/brandonct → u/Mahajangasuchus]

also it's crazy disrespectful to the work of all those visual effects artists when the marketing team trots out all the actors to talk about how the movie is all practical effects and everything on screen is just in-camera

[u/holydude02 → u/brandonct]

Yeah; I only caught snippets of the Odyssey promo and saw multiple mentions of "What you see on screen is what was captured in camera" and sorry, not sorry: Bullshit!

I also don't understand why CG is being treated as a second class contribution. It's a tool in the toolbox of filmmakers. If used right it can greatly enhance a story. If used like a bandaid for already bad filmmaking it's probably not the straw that broke the camels back either...

[u/Flexhead → u/Quantum_Quokkas]

yea, had this argument in another thread with "PHM used no green screens!"

Project Hail Mary had over 2000 effects shots.

The issue is the type of movie you are making determines how many effects shots you have.

Superhero movies will have more than something like Obession.

[u/DestrixGunnar → u/Quantum_Quokkas]

No green screen remember? They actually went out to space. Created a big ol' alien spaceship. That green gas planet? Legit. Ryan Gosling? Also legit.

[u/fs2222]

This is is just cherypicking to push a narrative. The highest grossing films of the year will be Spiderman, Avengers and Super Mario Galaxy, all CGI-stuffed. And plenty of films made the 'hard way' underperformed. Remember Bone Temple?

[u/FribonFire → u/fs2222]

Beyond that, Odyssey and Project Hail Mary are also packed full of CG. Subtle doesn't mean it's not there in every other scene. 

[u/Baelorn → u/FribonFire]

The anti-CGI crowd are telling objective lies about how The Odyssey and PHM "didn't use CGI".

There's a bunch of popular posts going around about how Nolan didn't use CGI for the Cyclops and I have to wonder if the people sharing it and circlejerking about how amazing Nolan is have even seen the movie. Because the Cyclops is 100% CGI. During filming they used a large puppet rig for lighting and reference but the one in the movie is CGI. Not the puppet.

[u/Churba → u/Baelorn]

The anti-CGI crowd are telling objective lies about how The Odyssey and PHM "didn't use CGI".

I mean, that's nothing new. We saw the same thing with both recent Mad Max films(or even worse, complaining one had a bunch of CG, the other had almost none, when in reality they both had about the same amount), we saw it with the barbie movie, we saw it with Top Gun maverick, we see it with the Mission impossible movies.

On top of that, people just don't seem to realize what is and is not CGI, both literally when they see it, and just in concept - Like, they'll say "Oh, but that's just a digital paint-out of some wires/cameras/etc, that's not really CGI", without realizing how difficult that actually is, and how often it can mean rebuilding whole elements of the environment completely digitally. Or they'll look at BTS shots where they actually did shoot a thing, and assume that means that whatever was shot is what ended up on screen(with some editing), when there are times where virtually the entire frame is CGI, and the parts shot on set were used as reference when building the shot digitally.

[u/hokie_u2 → u/fs2222]

Also the Mandalorian uses puppetry instead of CGI for Grogu, which people loved when the TV show originally aired. The movie flopped because it seems stale and unnecessary, not because of CGI

[u/Hayterfan → u/fs2222]

I honestly forgot Bone Temple came out THIS year. Then again right after it came out life hit like a freight train of bricks.

[u/Conscious_Test_7954 → u/fs2222]

Also PHM had tons of CGI, I don't know why there's this narrative about movies with tons of CGI are inherently bad.

[u/Training_Pirate1000]

Is DUNE not gonna be CGI-stuffed, or should I expect that to fail?

[u/Hayterfan → u/Training_Pirate1000]

Denis Villeneuve got actual sandworms for his trilogy.

[u/ShaunTrek → u/Training_Pirate1000]

Do you think that Project Hail Mary didn't have CGI or digital effects?

[u/Training_Pirate1000 → u/ShaunTrek]

WHAT! I can't believe I watched CGI-slop and enjoyed it! I thought they were actually in space.

[u/unKappa]

I mean, I dont mind CG, just make a good movie. Are we pretending that CGI is easy?

[u/justinqueso99 → u/unKappa]

People always point at stuff like Fast X and say cgi is all bad but always forget stuff like the planet of the apes which use it to its full ability to tell an incredible story that would be almost impossible to take seriously with out it

[u/longjumpingtote]

All movies are hard to make.

Audiences want good movies. All the other stuff is marketing.

There's plenty of CGI in PHM. Obviously. Some invisible, some not. Just no green screens were used but that's only one technique. And there's CGI in Odyssey. Nolan literally said he's more reliant on visual effects than any other director working today.

[u/celix24 → u/longjumpingtote]

Marketing likes to say no cgi, but when oscar season comes, odyssey and PHM will be nominated for vfx...

As an vfx artist, it's really annoying.

https://youtu.be/AFLcP-t0-kI?t=4026&si=o_jnPaf6njVtD15l

[u/longjumpingtote → u/celix24]

As an vfx artist, it's really annoying.

I bet. If anyone doubts it, just screenshot the VFX credits for those movies and send it to them.

[u/ExxInferis]

Talented people make better stuff. 

[u/Paladar2 → u/ExxInferis]

There are plenty of talented people who worked on the flops, but they weren't in charge lol

[u/No_Departure_2848 → u/Paladar2]

damn fucking right. I had a film teacher who first-day made the point to say that though he wasn't a fan of most hollywood movies, the crews who make them are fucking pros.

[u/const_iterator → u/ExxInferis]

"It takes a lot of very talented people to make a shitty movie." - Conan O'Brien. Movies are colossal collaborative undertakings. Don't denigrate the skills of the individuals just because the whole didn't come together.

[u/readwrite_blue → u/ExxInferis]

I feel like Favreau has proven his talent. But the safe Disney blockbuster formula produces dull dizzy movies.

[u/eltrotter]

I hate, hate this framing. Maybe Hollywood Reporter are just being flippant in their language here, but I do not want movies to be made "the hard way".

The real lesson here might be: All filmmaking should be difficult if you want to persuade audiences to leave their homes and trek to a theater.

No, sorry. Wrong emphasis. Because it frames effort, care and craft as being "hard" and low-effort, disposable guff as the default. As usual, it's really just a case of intentionality. When you're using practical effects, on-location shoots, cameras the size of wardrobes, the margin for error is small. You can't fuck things up, you have to have great actors, great blocking, you have to have a plan and a vision. Filmmaking doesn't necessarily have to be difficult to be intentional, but difficulty does force intentionality which is probably what's tripping up the article's author.

[u/Kana88]

The puppetry in Mando & Grogu was great, I wouldn't include it in this list. They could've CGI'ed all of it and instead went old school for the love of the game.

[u/Wuktrio]

People want good films. They don't care about CGI, Avatar is the highest grossing franchise alongside Marvel and Star Wars.

[u/shawnkfox]

The difficulty of making the film has nothing to do with it. People just want good movies and they are happy to pay for it. Nolan has built a lot of trust despite a few minor misfires like the 3rd batman movie and tenet, but even those movies were worth watching.

There was nothing 'hard' about making Obsession, for example, it was just a good low budget film. In the end you can't rely on special effects by itself to get people to see a movie, the movie actually has to be good.

[u/Almaironn → u/shawnkfox]

Arguably making a good low budget film is inherently hard already.

[u/Calfzilla2000]

This is unfair to The Mandalorian and Grogu, in my opinion. They built a lot of real sets, including many big enough for IMAX cameras, and made real puppets and practical elements for the movie. It was closer to The Odyssey, in terms of filming techniques, than a lot of big budget movies are.

One of the highlights of the movie, for me, is how many puppets were used. And there were several scenes with mostly puppets (almost like a modern Dark Crystal type thing). The movie had a lot of artistry in it for being a studio cash grab.

[u/FourSes → u/Calfzilla2000]

There was even stop-motion animation! That at least looked terrific.

[u/GayFesh]

Christopher Nolan uses a massive amount of CGI in all his movies. He just likes to keep the effects grounded.

[u/Altruistic-Twist-379]

Wait so Project Hail Mary was filmed in space? Fakkk

[u/CorranHorn25]

Just more lazy generalizations for karma posting.

[u/Sthrax]

I don't think the issue was CGI vs practical effects/actual location filming. The Odyssey, Project Hail Mary and Obsession are are great movies. Supergirl, Moana, and Mando all had various issues that hurt the quality of the movie. Mando for instance felt like an expanded episode of the show, rather than something that had to be on the big screen, and it suffered from a portion of the fanbase boycotting it because its Disney. Its CGI was actually very well-done.

[u/Kangarou]

That doesn't prove a damn thing.

[u/mtjseb]

Suggesting that Project Hail Mary and the odyssey isn’t still cg heavy is a weird take

[u/Posty_McPostface_1]

I thought the Mandalorian movie was actually pretty enjoyable. I don't think it belongs on that same low tier as Supergirl and Moana.

[u/ToughAdventurous8209 → u/Posty_McPostface_1]

It also used a lot of practical effects