r/SaaS Jun 09 '26

New rule banning a SaaS product category: No Promotional or Advertising SaaS

523 Upvotes

Hello SaaSers,

Today we are announcing a new rule against content dedicated to an entire Software as a Service product category on the sub: Promotional or Advertising SaaS.

We as moderators and regular users have been suffering from the constant influx of promotional content, spam, ads, and all sorts of campaigns that flood this and many other subs, pushing down organic, relevant content and driving us away from our common interests and hobbies.

We have identified an ever-increasing number of SaaS products made specifically for promotional or advertising purposes, targeting users on Reddit and other public platforms using various levels of automation. Most of them are focused on the content creator’s or advertiser’s needs, with little or no regard for the communities being bombarded.

Today we say ENOUGH! r/SaaS is not going to help them grow anymore. Even though they may offer a valid, legal and requested feature set, we believe they don't represent the direction that public forums should be headed towards. Our communities shouldn't be giant billboards and the future of the internet shouldn't be an arms race between people trying to have real conversations and tools designed to interrupt, imitate, and monetize them.

From now on, r/SaaS is not going to allow promotion, recommendation, launch announcements, feedback requests, recruiting, or user acquisition for SaaS products made for advertising, promotional outreach, lead/opportunity detection, or ad/content generation.

This includes software tools that generate, suggest, schedule, detect opportunities, automate, or coordinate promotional posts, comments, DMs, replies, or campaigns on Reddit or other platforms.

Violations may result in a permanent ban for the user who posted or commented and the tool name and URL may be blacklisted.

We know this will be an unpopular decision for a small subset of our fellow SaaSers but we are working to bring our sub back from the marketplace-like state it has become, to a more healthy community with valuable content and engagement.

To the r/SaaS developers affected by this rule: we cannot wish success to products built to make public spaces louder, more automated and less human. But we do hope you build something better, something that earns attention instead of extracting it, and improves the internet instead of turning every community into an acquisition channel.

We hope to hear your opinions on this new rule and to receive your reports on the now forbidden content (the content posted before this announcement will be mostly kept, unless it violates another rule).

The r/SaaS Mods


r/SaaS May 14 '26

r/SaaS v2 is Building in Public - month 1

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31 Upvotes

Hello fellow SaaS-ers, 

Exactly one month ago, u/ModCodeofConduct notified u/Dubinko and myself about being selected to moderate this sub, as the previous mod team was deemed unfit for the task.

This message is meant to give you an update on what’s happened in the meantime and to keep you in the loop.

Let me start by introducing The Team:

  • 4 Human mods
  • 5 automated bot mods have been added so far:
    • u/Automoderator (automod): It’s a built-in Reddit bot that implements the rule based behavior checks. This mod is our first line of defense and has been doing the heavy lifting of enforcing the hard content rules and helping avoid some spam patterns, some AI generated content, URL posting without karma, use of shorteners or referrals on links, sharing personal information, slurs and banned keywords. But there’s so much we can do with content pattern matching (regex) and unfortunately some people has been incorrectly hit by posts or comments removal. Even when automod works tirelessly, we (human mods) need to manually check and solve any appeal resulting from the application of the imperfect rules. This month automod has so far removed 5.3k posts and comments.
    • u/bot-bouncer (BotBouncer): This mod is an open-source Reddit tool that helps us to  identify and ban malicious, spam, or karma-farming bots. It works across many subreddits and if bot behavior is identified or reported by the mods, the user account gets classified as bot and BotBouncer bans it and removes the user’s posts and comments.  Of course BotBouncer is not perfect either and valid users can be incorrectly classified as bots which results in appeals that even when they should be directed towards BotBouncer, often end up in mod mail as a first support line. This month BotBouncer has banned 1.5k users as bots, and removed 2.6k posts and comments from those users.
    • u/evasion-guard (EvasionGuard):  Is a Reddit mod bot that helps us identifying users who violate Reddit's sitewide ban evasion policies. How exactly Reddit detects ban evasion is irrelevant right now, but EvasionGuard can remove posts, comments and even ban the supposedly evading users. Yet again if someone is banned by EvasionGuard we the mods become the immediate support line. This month EvasionGuard has removed 111 (0.1k) posts and comments and has banned 75 users.
    • u/modmail-userinfo (UserInfo): Is a Reddit community tool that automatically replies to new modmail conversations with a quick summary of the user's activity to provide a user background check to help us make faster decisions. It worked fine until 3 days ago when it started spamming our mod mail conversations with extra (unnecessary) information messages. 
    • u/scanslop (ScanSlop): This one is a special one. It’s a devvit mod tool made by our mod u/Dubinko that implements a couple of key functionalities: it requires a captcha validation for users posting for the first time in a set period of time (we can adjust it but I don’t want to disclose the current config in this post) to stop bots from spamming our sub. The second ScanSlop feature is a tool to count the number of times a user has posted a link to a domain, and enforces a strict limit of up to 4 times  in a 60 day rolling window. ScanLop also helps automatically imposing a 3 day temporary ban for users failing the captcha 3 times in a row and a 28 day temporary ban on users exceeding the allowed 4 times URL share quota. As you all can imagine we get a lot of appeals with request for manual human validation, ban exceptions and whitelisting of sites. We are not granting any ban exceptions right now. ScanSlop has so far validated and authorized 27.4K posts and comments and permanently removed 26.6k. 

Then I’ll go into the hard cold numbers as a transparency exercise

Where we started? The month before we took over the sub (March 14 - April 13)

  • Total Monthly Visits: 5.1M (up +274k from previous month)
  • Daily Average unique visitors: 67.4k 
  • Total sub members: 660k (up +36.9k from previous month, 39.7k joined while 2.8k left)
  • Total Monthly Posts: 10.1k (down -2.8k from previous month)
  • Total Removed Posts: 4.1k 
  • Total Monthly Comments: 69.3k (down -2.7k from previous month)
  • Total Removed Comments: 16.3k
  • Total Mod Actions: 8.3k 
  • Human mod actions: 0.6k 
  • Bot mod actions: 7.7k

Where we are? The month after we took over the sub (April 14 - May 13)

  • Total Monthly Visits: 4.4M (down -741k from previous month)
  • Daily Average unique visitors: 53.8k (down -13.6k from previous month)
  • Total sub members: 690k (up +29.3k from previous month, 31.5k joined while 2.1k left)
  • Total Monthly Posts: 4.8k (down -5.6k from previous month)
  • Total Removed Posts: 4.9k 
  • Total Monthly Comments: 45.8k (down -25.1k from previous month)
  • Total Removed Comments: 23k
  • Total Mod Actions: 133.5k 
  • Human mod actions: 4.3k 
  • Bot mod actions: 129.2k

Where are we going? What do we want to achieve?

  • To grow a healthy, supportive and collaborative community 
  • To encourage peer-to-peer knowledge transfer and advice 
  • To maintain high value and mature discussions 
  • To help members achieve their SaaS business goals
  • To grow steadily 
  • To keep away spam, bots, ads

What are we currently working on?

  • Clearing (answering) the mod mail backlog (appeals for bans, removals, general topics)
  • Clearing the mod queue (reports, auto-removals, Reddit removals, etc)
  • Moderating the sub (manually approving and removing posts and comments, banning spammers, bots and karma farmers)
  • Improving automod rules
  • Improving ScanSlop code 
  • Updating and improving the sub rules to make them clearer. We will post a more detailed version on the wiki soon.
  • Setting bot honeypot traps (you will be surprised to find out how many fall for it)
  • Develop an AI detection tool to identify bot responses.
  • Planning AMA events
  • Planning weekly/monthly thematic events
  • Preparing SaaS content posts

Where do we need help from the community?

  • Use the report button to alert us from spam, bots, karma-farmers, inappropriate behavior, etc.
  • Being patient while waiting for mod mail answers
  • Suggesting ideas and best practices to improve the sub moderation
  • Reading and following the sub rules

No building in public post would be complete without asking you something at the end: 

Is r/SaaS getting closer to product-market fit? Would you invest in it? Share your thoughts… 

TL;DR; The new (1 month old) mod team is hard at work to improve the sub. How are we doing?

Full disclaimer: 0% of this message was AI generated (no translation, no refinement, no content suggestions) it’s all my fault.


r/SaaS 6h ago

1200 signups, 3 subscriptions, No retention.

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42 Upvotes

Hey SaaS community, hope you're all doing good. My SaaS isn't doing well. I've run it for free over the past 2 years. Only 2 months back I completely re-did the whole thing and added pro while still keeping the free tier. But im getting very low retention. Although I've got my first subscriptions which felt very nice but I've burned alot of cash on it and im having a hard time keeping up. Should i call it? What am I doing wrong here? Any suggestions/ criticism is welcome. Thanks.

The SaaS is stepify.tech


r/SaaS 2h ago

2292 unique visitor 145 register 70 purchase

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9 Upvotes

Hey SaaS community, hope you're all doing good. My SaaS is actually doing pretty well so far, but I feel like I've hit a wall with growth. i've been building Termi Protocol, a niche desktop app for developers that visualizes AI coding agents in a cozy 3D workspace. So far I've had 2,292 unique visitors, 145 registrations, and 70 purchases. I launched on Product Hunt and finished #5 Product of the Day, promoted it on Reddit and LinkedIn, and even tried Instagram and TikTok. The problem is that I don't have a marketing budget, and since it's such a niche product for developers, I'm not sure where to focus next. If you were in my position, what path would you take? How would you grow traffic for a developer focused SaaS without spending much on ads? Any suggestions or criticism are more than welcome. Thanks! I haven't managed to get a lot of views on Instagram and TikTok.

Saas is : https://termiprotocol.com


r/SaaS 13h ago

I’m building a SaaS in public. From $0 to my first sale.

66 Upvotes

After spending way too much time thinking about ideas, I’ve finally decided to stop overthinking and just build.

Starting today, I’m documenting everything, from the first line of code to hopefully my first paying customer.

I’ll be sharing things like:
- Product decisions
- Wins and failures
- Marketing experiments
- Revenue updates
- Mistakes I make
- What AI tools I’m using
- Honest numbers (when there are any 😄)

My goal is simple: go from $0 to my first sale, then keep growing from there.

If you’re interested in following the journey, leave a follow. I’ll be posting almost everything here on Reddit, and I’d really appreciate honest feedback, criticism, and ideas along the way.
Hopefully this can help other people who are also starting from zero.

Let’s see where this goes 🚀


r/SaaS 1h ago

8 New Users 1 Hour After Updates!

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Upvotes

Hey all,

I worked tirelessly for the past few weeks updating my features, pricing and overall UI.

Just launched the new features for my content growth saas just over an hour ago...

I gained valuable feedback from the off which validated my new updates!

Its great to see users making a difference in their content through something I made.

Thought id share this small achievement as it gives momentum for further development and users.

For those thinking about shipping new features or hesitating about creating that new app or saas, JUST DO IT!


r/SaaS 1h ago

Product hunt for your SAAS, is it worth it? any advice?

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Upvotes

A lot of people told me you cant luach without, but it's really hard to build momentum on it,
any advice?


r/SaaS 5h ago

Built a SaaS that surfaces federal contracts, grants, and RFPs before they post publicly. $0 in revenue so far. What would it take for you to pay for this?

6 Upvotes

Posting this because I think I’m too close to my own product to see what’s actually stopping people from paying for it.
I built FedFinder (fedfinder.net) for small and mid-sized government contractors. The problem I kept running into is that SAM.gov only shows a contract once it’s already posted, so by the time you see it, you’re finding out at the same moment as every other bidder. Same story with grants and RFPs in general, you’re always reacting instead of positioning yourself early.
FedFinder pulls forecasts, sources sought notices, and industry days ahead of time so you can see the work coming before the solicitation drops. It scores each opportunity against your NAICS codes, set asides, and past awards, and surfaces the actual contracting officers and program leads behind it. There’s also an AI operator built into the platform called the Closer that reads whatever you’re looking at and answers things like “should I bid this,” with the public source cited so you can go verify it instead of trusting a black box. It pulls from around 44 public government sources total, SAM.gov, USAspending, Grants.gov, and a bunch of agency specific ones, so it’s covering contracts, grants, and RFPs, not just one lane.
Here’s the part that actually matters for this post: the product is done, the trial is live (14 days, full access, no credit card), and I have zero paying customers. I’ve put real time into marketing it and I genuinely cannot tell anymore if the issue is pricing, trust, positioning, or that I just haven’t found the right room to stand in yet.
If you looked at fedfinder.net for two minutes, what would stop you from starting a trial? And separately, what would it actually take to get you to pay once the trial ends?


r/SaaS 13h ago

You're sabotaging your SaaS

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26 Upvotes

We all know the feeling: we get a great SaaS idea, we spend a weekend building it...then somewhere along the way, we think maybe this idea isn't as good as I thought it was

Or you make 1 Reddit post and someone leaves a mean comment saying "Who is this for ?"

We doubt, we go back to the drawing board, and look for another idea, a "better" idea

I submit this to you: the idea does not matter, it's besides the point entirely. The #1 indicator of success for a SaaS is marketing. Where you market it and how you market it

We've all heard about the "I am rich" app that was on the App Store in 2008. The app cost $999, it had 2 screens and did basically nothing

Wanna know the funny part ? That app was bought by 8 people

2 people in Europe and 6 in America, just in case you were saying it won't work where you're from

You have a SaaS idea, and I guarantee that compared to "I am rich", your idea is the cure to cancer. You just aren't marketing it right and for long enough

Now I know you might not be a Christian, and I'm not selling my religion to you, but Proverbs 14:23 says:

"ALL hard work brings a profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty"

That is what the exact verse says. You have worked hard, just get your app in front of people, any people

Here's something that has really started helping me lately: track goals. That is, install Google Analytics on your site, and rather than aim for $100,000,000 in MRR, aim for just 10 website visitors, after 10.....aim for 20, then 50, then 100

Knowing that people are actually seeing what you built will give you new strength

I'm a 19 year old from Zimbabwe who hasn't had a single sale in 4 years either, so believe me, all of this advice comes from stuff I've been though

Love you guys, please stop sabotaging yourself, just believe


r/SaaS 10h ago

Hey, Is Google becoming the second place people search instead of the firrst?

17 Upvotes

I 've noticed more people around me saying "I asked ChatGPT" instead of "I Googled it."
If you're buying software, researching a service or comparing tools, where do you actually start that now?
Google?
ChatGPT?
Reddit?
Or Somewhere else?
Just interesting whether this is just my bubble or if search habits have really changed.


r/SaaS 2h ago

Not $10k MRR. Just €3,525 in 6 months, in the most saturated niche alive.

3 Upvotes

Habit trackers. Productivity apps. The single most saturated niche on earth. Every dev's first app. A graveyard.

I built one anyway. And I even lead my marketing with habit tracking, the most crowded feature I have. somehow it still makes money...

About me: dad, married, solo dev. Started building in November, launched Loggd on Dec 10. It's an all in one personal growth app. Habits, tasks, goals, focus timer, journal, all connected with gamification and a GitHub-style activity graph. Think contribution graph, but the green squares are your real life.

So it's a full system. But "another all-in-one life OS" makes people's eyes glaze over. "Habit tracker" they instantly get. So I lead with the saturated thing, get them in the door, and they discover the rest.

The actual numbers, 6 months in:

- 6,012 registered users

- 100-200 daily active

- 75 Pro subscribers

- ~€250 MRR

- €3,525 total revenue

For the first 4 months I was flat under €200. I thought I was wasting my time. Then I shipped iOS on April 1. May did +€1k. June did €1,133. The line finally started going up. Lifetime deals and the iOS launch did most of it. Just launched Android on July 20, so let's see.

Where the users come from: Threads. 70%+ of everyone. Not clever marketing, I'm bad at that. Just showing up every day and being fully transparent. Real numbers, revenue, what worked, what flopped. People connect with the person, not the app.

The growth is never a curve. One day 1 new user. Next day 2. Then a post hits and 90 sign up overnight. Then back to 5. Silence, spike, silence. The whole skill is showing up on the quiet days and posting anyway.

Saturated niche, most crowded feature up front, a dev who sucks at marketing. And it's still working, slowly. So if someone told you your niche is too crowded, maybe that's not the reason it's not working.

Happy to answer anything honestly.


r/SaaS 8h ago

Need SaaS sites where we could showcase our SaaS

9 Upvotes

Hey folks,

I just built my first SaaS extension and I’m not very good at marketing or doing the whole “hey, check out what I made” thing. I’d really appreciate it if you could share any SaaS tools or platforms that are designed for showcasing new products to others. Thanks


r/SaaS 1h ago

Spent hours fixing my Assistant's tool calling. The actual fix took me 2 minutes.

Upvotes

My assistant does quite a bit during a call. Database CRUD operations, availability checks, small calculations, API calls... basically every conversation involves multiple tool calls.

The weird part was that the LLM itself was fast (TTS | STT). It was the tool calling that kept introducing these awkward pauses.

So I did what most of us would probably do. Tweaked system prompts, Reduced prompt size, Increased timeouts, Optimized a few APIs.

It got slightly better... but the delay was still there then I noticed something embarrassingly obvious.

My backend was deployed in Asia BUT database was in Europe. My telephony provider was also routing through Europe, and so was my AI provider. I redeployed the backend to Europe so everything lived in the same region.

Literally didn't touch a single line of code and the difference was immediate. Tool calls became noticeably faster, the awkward pauses almost disappeared, and the whole assistant just felt smarter.

I feel like when people talk about Voice AI latency, the conversation is always around prompts, models, or inference speed.

But if your assistant relies heavily on tool calling, spend 5 minutes looking at where your services are actually deployed.

You might save yourself a few days of debugging like I didn't 😅


r/SaaS 7h ago

I see many people are just posting unreal stats to promote.

6 Upvotes

Does anyone really believe them?

10k MRR in a month, oh really!


r/SaaS 4h ago

What is the best way to price you AI service? within existing SAAS

3 Upvotes

When you have a SAAS, that already have active clients, with subscription per seat model,

how to introduce AI feature pricing, especially when some users dont use it and others consume alot of tokens


r/SaaS 5h ago

If you were building a Form Builder SaaS today, what would you do differently?

5 Upvotes

I've been thinking about how much the form builder space has changed over the last couple of years.

AI has made it much easier to build forms, there are dozens of established competitors, and users seem to expect more than just a drag-and-drop builder now.

If you were starting a form builder SaaS from scratch today, where would you focus?

  • AI-generated forms
  • Better integrations
  • More templates
  • Analytics and automation
  • Mobile-first experience
  • Simpler pricing
  • Something else?

More importantly, what do you think is still missing in this market?

I would love to hear from founders who've built SaaS products or from anyone who creates forms regularly using different tools. Real experiences are much more valuable than feature wishlists.


r/SaaS 14h ago

Problems in launching a saas

19 Upvotes

Hey, I have recently started working on building my own products and selling them, I frequently post about them on Reddit too but constantly get roasted. Everyone says the solution already exists, everyone knows that, if Google didn't start search engine thinking yahoo already exists, imagine the result of that, now if I have an idea and try to validate it, people say the idea already exists don't work on it, If I build something and post about it they say there's a better one with a lot more feature than yours no one will use it. I know there's a better solution than mine in every field but while starting I can't compete with the companies improving their product for decades, now the main problem is seeing those comments, the people who would be interested in my product will start using my competitors because of those comments, how do you founders find actual clients avoiding these problems? On top of that I'm from a third world country, I don't have any problem in that because I'm from a good family but other people don't have purchasing power to buy my products so my only option is go international for which first option that comes to my mind is Reddit,X or linkedin x and linkedin are shit compared to Reddit but Reddit has it's own set of problems, how to deal with it?


r/SaaS 2h ago

I spent years in software support, so I built the support tool I wish small/medium SaaS teams had.

2 Upvotes

I spent years working in software support, and one problem kept showing up everywhere: small teams usually do not struggle because they do not care about customers. They struggle because support starts taking over the entire day.

You launch a product, get a few customers, and suddenly you are answering the same questions repeatedly, searching through old emails for context, updating help articles, and replying late at night instead of improving the product.

Most support platforms felt either too expensive for a small SaaS or too focused on letting AI reply automatically without enough oversight.

So I built AppsResolve.

It brings email support, a customizable website widget, and a knowledge base into one place. AI uses the company’s documentation and previous tickets to draft responses, but a person can review and edit everything before it is sent.

The goal is not to replace customer support. It is to help a solo founder or small team respond faster without losing the human judgment that customers still need.

It is still early, and I am looking for honest feedback from founders who currently handle support themselves.

Would you trust AI to draft your customer replies if nothing was sent without your approval?


r/SaaS 2m ago

I honestly think SaaS is one of the last real opportunities for millennials.

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Upvotes

Every other business feels locked already.

Want to sell stuff? Amazon.

Want to build a social app? Good luck competing with Meta or TikTok.

Search? Google.
Hotels? Airbnb and Booking.
Food delivery? Uber Eats.

Feels like every big market already belongs to someone with billions.
Even on the internet it's getting harder.

SEO is a mess. Ads cost more every year. App stores are full of copycats. Most ideas have already been built 10 times.

But SaaS still feels... different.

Some random guy can build a small tool over a few weekends, post it online, and suddenly people start paying $10 or $20 a month.

No office.

No employees.

No investors.

Just solving one annoying problem.
Will 99% fail?
Yeah.

But I don't really see many other businesses where a normal person can still compete.

Maybe AI changes everything again.

Or maybe SaaS is the last window before everything gets owned by a handful of giant companies too.

Curious what other people think.

Thoughts from another universe


r/SaaS 13m ago

Looking for long-term partner.

Upvotes

I'm a full-stack developer building AI SaaS products quickly. Looking for someone obsessed with sales who wants to own GTM while I build. Revenue share/equity only. Looking for long-term partner.

Message me.


r/SaaS 13m ago

My first Saas - Money Tracker

Upvotes

Hello dear community

i have just created myjibi.com which a website for now, makes you track money, like how much you spent this month, tracking your goal, debts with friends and splitting your month budget

i know this idea is already has many apps, but i have added some features and willing to

you can test it, create your account there, test and i am open to any advice, criticism and anything ))

the mobile app will be released soon, the website is just a simple test for now

Thank youuu


r/SaaS 32m ago

The expensive part of shipping an AI feature wasn’t the model. It was rebuilding QA after every prompt change.

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Upvotes

Founder disclosure: I’m building QualiLoop.

One cost of running an AI product surprised us: it wasn’t inference. It was the recurring human work required to determine whether the product was still safe and reliable.

Most teams begin with a spreadsheet or script containing manually written prompts and expected answers. That works for an early demo. Then the product gains tools, policies, retrieval, multiple workflows and longer conversations.

Every model or prompt change creates the same questions:

  • Did an existing workflow break?
  • Did the agent start calling the wrong tool?
  • Can external content inject new instructions?
  • Does it expose restricted information?
  • Does it behave consistently across different users?
  • What important scenario did nobody think to test?

Adding more hand-written cases doesn’t solve the underlying problem because coverage still depends on someone imagining every failure.

We built QualiLoop to generate the testing program directly from an agent’s prompt and configuration. It creates reliability, red-team and bias scenarios, runs simulated conversations, schedules regressions and can block a release when a critical flow becomes weaker.

The important part isn’t merely producing a pass/fail score. Each failure is connected to the exact response, tool call or decision that caused it, so the team can see what changed and why.

Initial setup takes around 30 minutes, and the full program can be generated and running in hours. Based on the staffing and manual work it replaces, we estimate the QA cost can be roughly 90% lower. Sensitive deployments can also run on-premises.

Product for context: https://www.qualiloop.com/

For founders who have shipped an AI feature: who currently owns the release decision when the prompt or model changes-engineering, QA, product, or nobody?


r/SaaS 33m ago

If you're a parent, I'd appreciate your feedback on my landing page

Upvotes

The mission I've set for myself is to build a kids learning app for parents that hate kids learning apps (like me). No games, no attempt to increase time on platform (i.e. addict kids to screens), just simple digital or paper worksheets generated by AI grounded in real curriculum and standards they teach in schools with little animal emoji rewards to earn along the way (basic PBIS, also done in schools).

Does the landing page communicate any of that well?

https://waddlelearning.com/


r/SaaS 11h ago

I have users coming onto my site, but I have no idea where they are coming from. Can anyone help?

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8 Upvotes

r/SaaS 42m ago

Built something and can't get seen?

Upvotes

I founded a dev shop over two years ago, but working with founders taught me something: building is the easy part now. Getting seen is where most people get stuck.

I'm testing something new, systematic content posting or outbound DM growth, same systems I already run for my own company and one paying client. Looking for 2 to 3 people to run it for free for 2 to 3 weeks. No strings.

Good fit if:

  • You've got a live product, app, or audience already, not pre-launch
  • You're stuck on distribution, not on building
  • You can share what's needed (raw content, product info, current stats) without much back and forth

What happens: I run either content ops or an outbound pipeline for you daily, for free, then we hit a checkpoint at 2 to 3 weeks and look at real numbers together. If it moved the needle, we talk about continuing.