r/geothermal Feb 21 '23

**Geothermal Heat Pump Quote and Informational Survey** A Community Resource where ground-source heat pump owners can share quotes, sizing, and experiences with the installation and performance of their units. Please fill out if you're a current or past geothermal heat pump owner!

33 Upvotes

Link to the survey: https://forms.gle/iuSqbnMks7QGt5wg9

Link to the responses: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M7f2V_P_LibwzrkyorHcXR-sgRZZegPeWAZavaPc5dU/edit?usp=sharing

Hi all!

Let's be honest. HVACing can be stressful as a homeowner, and this can be especially true when getting geothermal installation quotes, where the limited number of installers can make it difficult to get multiple opinions and prices.

Inspired by r/heatpumps, I have created a short, public, anonymous survey where current geothermal heat pump owners can enter in information about quotes, installations, and general performance of their units. All of this data is sent directly to a spreadsheet, where both potential shoppers and current geothermal owners are then able to see and compare quotes, sizing, and satisfaction of their installations across various geographical regions!

Now here's the catch: This spreadsheet only works if the data exists. It's up to current owners, satisfied or otherwise, to fill out the survey and help inform the community about their experience. The r/heatpumps spreadsheet is a plethora of information, where quotes can be broken down in time and space thanks to the substantially larger install base. With the smaller number of geothermal installs, getting a sample size that's actually helpful for others is going to require a lot of participation. So please, if you have a couple minutes, fill out what you can in the geothermal heat pump survey, send it to other geothermal owners you know that may also be interested in helping out, and let's create something cool and useful!


r/geothermal 22m ago

Residential Savings Calculator

Upvotes

The mods gave me the OK to post this, so I'm asking Reddit to do what Reddit does best.

I built a v1 geothermal savings calculator:
https://www.taprootgeo.com/savings-estimator

I'm not looking for leads or customers. I'm looking for Reddit to offer up that harsh and painful criticism that only Reddit can offer. What I'm really looking for are the few helpful comments, but I'm willing to sort through those for the pearls of wisdom that inevitably come. I'd like to incorporate those into a v2 that I can more confidently promote.

Let me know if you: think my assumptions are wrong, if the inputs should be different or are missing, if the calculations don't make sense, if something is confusing or misleading, etc.

If you're a homeowner, installer, engineer, or just someone who's familiar with geothermal, I'd genuinely appreciate your critique.

Since my installation territory is only NY, I really didn't think about making it applicable outside of my state.

Alright... do your thing.


r/geothermal 1d ago

Geothermal Omaha

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1 Upvotes

r/geothermal 2d ago

Replacement for a Direct Expansion

2 Upvotes

I'm looking for options to replace an existing DX R22 system. Does anyone make a DX heat pump that will work with my existing copper ground loops?

I'm based in Ottawa, Canada. Unfortunately Nordic no longer makes them.


r/geothermal 4d ago

Geothermal in PG County, Maryland (near Greenbelt)

1 Upvotes

I am looking at the possibility of moving to geothermal (I'd like to do away with our gas line entirely if possible) and I'm pricing out different options.

We have a roughly 1500 sq foot home with a fully finished basement, the furnace is downstairs (Trane XRT) and is from 2013, with a 3-ton Trane AC.

I found this post really helpful in getting some idea of what the cost would be: https://www.reddit.com/r/geothermal/comments/1u7ytef/looking_into_geothermal_in_md/

I've gotten quotes from:

Temp Masters (Cameron)

  • Install 5 Series 3 Ton Package Unit W5AV036BD1A02NTL2D00
  • Variable Speed ECM Blower
  • FC1-GL Flow Center
  • CK4L-GLI Connection Kit
  • Unit Pad
  • Dual Stage Compressor
  • 10kw Backup Heat
  • Aurora Premium Controls (performance and refrigeration package)
  • Cupronickel Coax
  • TPCC32U03 Color Touchscreen Thermostat
  • 600 feet of 1.25” Vertical Bore and trenching into house

5 Series 3 Ton Total: $42,042

Options for:

  • Symphony Weblink Router $792 (Waterfurnace’s wifi enablement feature, allows for remote unit monitoring)
  • Bipolar Ionization Kit $650 per unit
  • Intellistart $653 per unit

Projected Incentives:

  • ($5000) BGE Grant ($5000 for the downstairs furnace)
  • ($5000) Prince George’s County Property Tax Credit
  • ($4103) Estimated 1st year GREC (20 year total of $25K in GRECs)
  • System price after incentives around $11,760 in 20 years
  • Waiting to hear back on what their leasing option is.

Estimated First Year Bottom Line (including all rebates and first year of GREC’S)- $32939
Waiting to see a lease option.

GroundLoop (Justin)

  • Water Furnace “Series 5” W5AV036 3 (Intellistart included, recommended including desuperheat from the factory)
  • BACK UP HEAT – 10 kw Emergency Electric Heat Package
  • INCLUDES: Aurora™ Advanced Control System with Performance Monitoring, Energy Monitoring, and Refrigeration Monitoring, and color touch screen thermostat.
  • ALSO INCLUDES: A Symphony Aurora Weblink which allows system control from any internet enabled device and allows Ground Loop to remotely access system diagnostics from our office.

5 Series 3 Ton Total 46,549

Options:

  • UPGRADE 1 $2,800.00 Waterfurnace Desuperheater hot water assist with 40 gallon geothermal storage tank
  • UPGRADE 4 $4,750.00 50 gallon Marathon Electric Water Heater Composite Tank (Lifetime Warranty)
  • UPGRADE 5 $2,750.00 50 Gallon Rheem Electric Water Heater

Projected Incentives:

  • ($5000) BGE Utility Company Rebate Gas Replacement
  • ($1500) BGE Electrification Rebate
  • ($18,000.00) 20 Year GRECs
  • Their leasing option is through Upstream, we would pay 242/month and then around $13k in year 6 for a total of $27,766.56 for what would otherwise be about $40k. Upstream would keep all the GRECs for the life of the system (presumably if we eventually installed a new system that would change). I'm mildly skeptical of this, curious about other people's opinions. Another installer that also works with upstream says that there's options where you can avoid signing the GRECs over to upstream and pay more out of pocket but I have no idea whether or not MD will enact additional legislation to end the GRECs (currently they're supposed to drop to $65 and stay there).

Total Investment after all rebates/GRECs: $22,049

Loves Heating & Air (Came out today, waiting on a quote)

North American Geo (Johnathan, waiting on a quote)

Note: Told me that the desuperheater option from the factory is $2395, so that's something no-one else has mentioned.

Everyone has quoted the WaterFurnace 5, with either 3 ton or 4 ton (no-one has done the Manual J calcs yet).

Various questions:

I have gotten wildly different answers one whether we need an additional hot water storage tank, some folks say absolutely, so folks say you can just pipe the output from the desuperheater into a standard or heatpump electric water heater (just not a tankless option).

Also everyone has been kind of insistent on using the Waterfurnace thermostat. I have an Ecobee 3 Lite which I like and according to the Ecobee page should be compatible with a geothermal heatpump with aux heat. Anyone know what the additional benefit of the Waterfurnace one is beyond being guaranteed to be compatible?

What is the calculation to determine how many GRECs a system is supposed to produce? I understand that adding the desuperheater to the system is supposed to produce additional GRECs but I have no idea how many you get with/without. Dividing the 2027 numbers from TempMaster (no desuperheat) by $77 seems to come out to about 38 GRECs.

I will update this again once additional quotes come in.


r/geothermal 6d ago

UMass Dartmouth receives $1.1M state grant to expand geothermal energy system

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24 Upvotes

r/geothermal 6d ago

Drilling well for drinking water and geothermal loop

3 Upvotes

My wife and I are about to move back to Central NY from Georgia and we will be building a modular home on my parents’ property. I've been looking at geothermal for our heating and cooling. We will need to have a well drilled for drinking water, so it seems that would be the most natural ground source. The most likely site for our home will be wooded, so that would reduce the area for a ground loop field considering we will need a septic system factored in. Does this make sense? What are folk’s experiences in the northeast with this sort of setup? Also, if anyone can recommend a contractor in the Central NY area that they have had good luck with, I would certainly appreciate that.


r/geothermal 8d ago

Two Geothermal Bets Are Starting to Undercut Nuclear on Cost

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31 Upvotes

r/geothermal 9d ago

Dandelion bad experience in New York state

6 Upvotes

Hi all. I had my Dandelion system installed in late 2018. I wasn't thrilled with the state in which the excavation company left my property (obviously when digging up just about the entire backyard, I understand that it's not going to look great afterwards, but they tore down a lot of chain link fence and did a bad job of putting it back together, and they ripped down the cable and telephone lines from the house to the pole on their way out. Anyway, that's not the point of this post.)

Over the years I have only had a couple of minor issues, mainly a small glycol leak from one of the "contraptions" (looks like some kind of water hammer absorber or something along those lines) and Dandelion was good about coming out to fix it.

I actually don't use the system very often because I am comfortable as long as my indoor temperature isn't above 80. That was the case for basically the entire summer last year, so I don't think I ever used it all summer long. When the weather got cold, the system wasn't working when I finally went to use it. The blower would come on, but not the compressor. I called, and Dandelion said they no longer provided service to my area and they said that I would need to contact a different company.

I contacted that company, and they made the 2-hour trip, and had me up and running either that same day or possibly on a subsequent visit. At that time, they convinced me that it would be a good idea to sign a preventative maintenance contract, which involves them coming out twice a year to check on things.

They came out last month in mid June. I had not been running the system for AC at that point, so I had no idea that the system was once again not working. Once again, the blower was blowing, but there was no compressor. The technician said something about him being wrong about his previous diagnosis, and that I needed a part. I said ok, whatever it takes. He said they would give me a call to arrange next steps.

A week and a half went by without hearing anything, so I called to get an update. The receptionist said she would speak to the technician and get back to me. Another week went by without hearing anything, so I called again. This time I left a message. No response. I called the next day, left another message. No response. It has now been a week, and they are clearly ghosting me. I reached out to a different geothermal company and they said they would not service a system that they didn't install. I called dandelion and said that I have a inoperative system and I desperately need somebody to take a look at it. They said they would email me a list of recommended companies in New York state, jt none of these places are anywhere near me, and won't travel that far.

Miraculously I had an old email from 2018 with the name of a guy whom I recalled being really on top of things. I managed to locate him on LinkedIn and he now lives in Oklahoma working for AAON, and he gave me the number of a guy in Albany which is about 2 hours away. This guy said if I pay him a travel fee. He will come out and hopefully fix my system. So, we'll see.

In the meantime, I filed a small claims court case against the other company that clearly breached the preventative maintenance contract. I have no idea why they did that but it is completely absurd. It's like being in a fantastic relationship and then suddenly one day your partner dumps you with no explanation and ghosts you. As much as I like geothermal, It is obviously a risky proposition when you live in an area that does not have options for readily available service.


r/geothermal 9d ago

Looking for a slow-close solenoid valve

1 Upvotes

I've been using a simple 24v Rainbird flow control valve. The last time mine wore out I searched online for a slow-close replacement to stop the water hammer effect and bought a WIC Series slow close valve. It didn't work at all...I mean it might have stopped the water hammer, but didn't work with my unit. Can anyone recommend a simple slow-close solenoid valve that might work?


r/geothermal 10d ago

Alternatives to WaterFurnace?

5 Upvotes

Earlier I posted a rant about how bad WaterFurnace sucks. I was very frustrated at the time. It turns out this particular incident was caused by a cracked & leaking drain pan underneath the unit. That is clearly not the fault of Waterfurnace, so I've deleted my previous post.

However, my unit has been problematic over the past 18 years of service, and I'd like to hear about possible alternatives to WaterFurnace. My current unit is a 2008 Envision horizontal package, which wound up having a bad coil within a few years. I'd like to avoid repeating that experience. Suggestions & opinions welcome. Thank you, and sorry about my previous rant.


r/geothermal 10d ago

Is it worth it getting my own AID tool kit?

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2 Upvotes

Crossposting because nobody is responding elsewhere!


r/geothermal 10d ago

Climatemaster question

1 Upvotes

My friend’s Climatemaster TTV038AGC01ALKS isn’t working, the board is not sending a signal to energize the compressor contactor. Compressor runs when the contactor is manually depressed. The board is a 17B0001N01, and there’s no 24 volts signal from the CC and CCG terminals, with a call for cooling (O, G, Y1 & Y2 are all energized). Am I missing something or is this a bad board?


r/geothermal 11d ago

Intellistart soft start installation for waterfurnace?

2 Upvotes

Anyone DIY install the Intellistart soft starter?

I've installed soft starters on other units but this one is intimidating for some reason. Expensive equipment on the line, I suppose. None of the area companies want to do it, and I really want it.


r/geothermal 11d ago

Is this sound normal?

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1 Upvotes

Geothermal unit compressor is making odd noise I’ve never heard before. Also a super hot day for it to be running.


r/geothermal 12d ago

I have no HVAC knowledge, is this a fair quote?

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3 Upvotes

I have a 9 year old open loop Bard geothermal unit. Its under warranty for another couple months and the compressor went during the heat wave last week. I don't know what this compressor would cost, but I'm guessing upwards of $5000, so getting this great timing for a failure I guess? The manufacturer warranty covers parts, but not labor or diagnostics.

The quote Pic itself explains what's included in the price and what's covered by the warranty. It was very difficult to find even one geothermal tech in my area, so as long as I'm not getting screwed, getting a second quote might not be worth the effort


r/geothermal 15d ago

Anyone that had worked at Geothermal is it worth it?

3 Upvotes

I just got hired as a geothermal apprentice starting at $20 but I have absolutely no idea how good of a field that is. Is it worth sticking to in the long run?


r/geothermal 17d ago

Help with airflow.

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3 Upvotes

We have a WaterFurnace Legend. Currently we have two thermostats, one downstairs and one upstairs.

We have the upstairs thermostat set to cool, but the air from the vents is so weak it is almost nonexistent, yet the air is coming from the downstairs vent forcefully even though the thermostat is off. I am assuming these are the dampers and this is what they look like when the downstairs is set to off and the upstairs is on.

I'm just trying to figure out why the downstairs vents work and the upstairs do not. Thank you in advance.

![img](ndeus5d43abh1)


r/geothermal 19d ago

Is this normal EWT for a vertical loop?

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6 Upvotes

I had concerns when they first installed the loop because the horizontal run from the vertical headers are only about 2-3ft deep, so I was worried that the outside air temps and ground temp would greatly effect the loop temps and kill efficiency. Can anyone compare their system for me?

The other metric I have is in the month of June, I used 1083 Kw for just the geothermal cooling. I thought these systems were supposed to be more efficient or cheaper to run than a 24 year old A/C condenser. This June I spent $123 just on the geothermal cooling. Last year with the 24 year old A/C condenser I used $130 or 1156 Kw on cooling. 4T system

Thanks!


r/geothermal 19d ago

AHU cooling coil not reaching design off-coil temperature – looking for troubleshooting advice

3 Upvotes

Hi everyone,
I’m troubleshooting an AHU that isn’t achieving its design cooling performance, and I’d appreciate any suggestions.
Current operating conditions:
Chilled water inlet temperature: **8°C**
Chilled water outlet temperature: **20°C**
Fresh air temperature: **22°C**
Off-coil air temperature: **17°C** (consistently)
Coil water flow: **15.8 m³/h**
Design off-coil temperature: **9.5°C**
We’ve already:
Cleaned the strainer.
Flushed the cooling coil.
However, the off-coil temperature remains around **17°C**.
Because of this, the supply air temperature stays high, and the space temperature remains above **22°C**, whereas the design space temperature should be below **19°C**.
Has anyone experienced a similar issue? What could be causing the coil to underperform despite the available chilled water flow? Could this be related to coil performance, air bypass, balancing, control valve issues, incorrect flow measurement, or something else?
Any troubleshooting suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


r/geothermal 19d ago

waterfurnace -- failure after 1.5 years

3 Upvotes

I have a 5 series that has operated well until yesterday.
Tech has diagnosed failure of both pumps. Is this a frequent failure mode?
Don't yet have the estimate for repair....needless to say I didn't buy the extended warranty.


r/geothermal 20d ago

Climatemaster tranquility 27 lockout 6 blinks overflow

1 Upvotes

Hi Group,

We have a Climatemaster tranquility 27 5 ton closed loop geo system that is locking out. We just had a new air coil installed this winter and obviously concerned we were locking out due to that failing. That’s not the issue we are locking out due to an Overflow condition(6 blinks). Then pan inside the unit is flowing perfectly fine. I suspected it was the condensate pump due to the amount of sludge in the pump. I got a new pump and I’m having the same issue. I wired up a multimeter to the overflow wires on the pump and I verified the pump kicks in before the overflow switch trips. Is there any know issues with the units exhibiting this issue. FWIW, this is the first time we’ve had this particular issue in 15 years. It did not lock out due to this at all when heating. It only seems to happen when running in stage 2.

Thanks in advance


r/geothermal 22d ago

Obsessed with this mod? Any mainstream version using portable AC?

7 Upvotes

Techingrediants managed to make a much more powerful/efficient air conditioner by creating a heat exchanger on a cheap AC unit. The heat exchanger attaches to a loop of PEX pipe he buried at 8’ depth. I was wondering if there are any existing inexpensive AC units that allow a liquid loop to be connected.

https://youtu.be/s-41UF02vrU?is=PszjhowHJw197z5M


r/geothermal 23d ago

A Canadian company buried a giant radiator 2.8 miles under a German town to pull power from hot rock anywhere on Earth, and six months after it hit the grid, its own CEO admits two loops are clogged, the budget's gone, and it's walking away

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116 Upvotes

The company, Eavor, is pivoting from project operator to "technology provider" and actively searching for an outside candidate to take over, drill the remaining loops, and run the first-of-a-kind German facility.


r/geothermal 22d ago

Issues with cooling

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3 Upvotes

My house has a geothermal system that has been working great so far this summer but the past couple days it has not been cooling I am going to have a tech come look at it tomorrow but was wondering if anyone could help. I had a friend come check it out but he doesn’t know much about geothermal as he just works on traditional systems.
Symptoms:
- high head pressure
- sounds like system is possibly sucking air but could be normal we are unsure(will attach video)
-cools at random times but does reach thermostats set temperature
Please respond with any help or if additional information is needed. (It is a closed loop system about 10 years old with 300lf of pipe for the loop)