Just finished reading Dune messiah. I really liked we are straightaway brought to the aftermath of Paul's jihad and the consequences. I felt the book could have been written much better that it has been, by actually explaining what the characters are talking about rather than just leave cryptic conversations and make the reader wait for the explanation. I also was dissapointed by seeing that Alia didn't have much of a role and how really weak the members of the conspiracy were. The novel felt a lot to take in, had too many variables and too much information. It also I think would have been great if they spent some part of the book showing other possible futures and how one decision if made differently lead to some other reality.

I am also very confused about some things:

1. What actually happens to the Reverend mother Gaius Helen after Paul meets with her and asks for a bargain. She isn't shown anywhere in the second half of the book and Frank herbert doesn't explain if she considered his bargain or not. He just mentions that there is a delay in the sisterhood's response.

2. If Paul cannot see the members of the conspiracy, can't he just try to see everyone's future around him and then note who he cannot see and is thus involved with the conspiracy? I feel I haven't really understood how prescience works.

3. Why don't Alia and Paul just talk with each other about what they see in their prescience visions lol? Rather than have Alia risking taking a heavy dose of spice. Even Paul sometimes wonders about what Alia has seen but is never shown to actually talk to her.

4. If Scytale had bijaz who had prescience, why did he need the Guild member to be part of the conspiracy for hiding them against Paul's prescience?

Thanks for reading till here! I think it will be a while to process what I have read and appreciate it in time. Will appreciate any explanation for above questions

(I suspect I may have misunderstood or missed something from the book that explains this)

I just finished reading book 2 and I was wondering whether Paul's exile prevents or strengthens his deification, and what he intended by making that decision. Initially I assumed the latter since it both creates a martyrdom narrative, and also makes concrete the fremen's pre existing conviction that he is the lisan al gaib.

I don't really understand the perspective of him taking this path to minimise any possible further growth of the jihad since this isn't guaranteed to result from his death and there's multiple explicit references to how paul living isn't a necessary condition for religious growth across the empire. Despite this i've seen people claim this narrative of paul choosing exile purely as a utilitarian calculated choice, which I don't really understand.

BTw if the answer to this is explained in book 3 please don't let me know since I'm reading that at the moment thanks :)

Sorry, I’ve listened to the audiobooks of everything up to Heretics several times, but I can’t remember which book it was where someone has a vision or even just daydream of a future end of humanity and the imagery it gave me were people huddling in a cave as hunter seekers came for them. I know it’s vague and I could be wildly misremembering it, so thanks in advance for any help…

This premium legacy edition is housed in a unique deluxe box set adorned with a three-dune cast and crew commemorative symbol and includes an authentic screen-used worm prop, exclusive signature card signed by director Denis Villeneuve and writer Tanya Lapointe, and a meticulously crafted replica statue of the Space Navigator sarcophagus. 

THE ART AND SOUL OF DUNE: PART THREE — LEGACY EDITION

Available Exclusively from Legendary Publishing and Simon & Schuster. Limited Quantities Available. 

AUTHENTIC SCREEN-USED WORM PROP:
A genuine fragment from the full-scale sandworm set constructed in Abu Dhabi for the filming of numerous desert sequences. This exceptionally rare piece originates from the less than one percent of the massive practical sandworm prop that was preserved following production, making it a unique and highly collectible artifact from the film.

DELUXE COLLECTOR'S BOX-SET:
Housed in a deluxe box set adorned with a three-dune commemorative symbol designed to mark the cast and crew's journey through the Dune trilogy, reproduced here with the filmmakers' permission.

SIGNATURE CARD:
Includes exclusive signature card signed by director-screenwriter-producer Denis Villeneuve and writer-producer Tanya Lapointe.

EXCLUSIVE LIMITED-EDITION COVER OF THE ART AND SOUL OF DUNE PART THREE
Features the sacred markings featured under Emperor Paul Muad'Dib Atreides's eye in the film. The 240-page book is a rare, behind the scenes account of the making of the film with never-before-seen photographs and concept art. 

SPACE NAVIGATOR REPLICA STATUE:
A meticulously crafted Spacing Guild Navigator replica produced from the same production files used to create the original 10-foot-tall prop featured in the movie, presented with a display stand.

Special Collector's Edition

List Price: $750.00

This title is available for pre-order and will ship on or around January 12, 2027. Terms apply.

On sale: January 12, 2027

240 Pages

https://www.simonandschuster.com/p/the-art-and-soul-of-dune-part-three-legacy-edition

When a KH/abomination unlocks Other Memory they gain access to not only their matrilineal ancestors, but the male ancestors as well. I've always had this in my head as "double the access", because they can access both men and women.

I only just realized though, that this is a huge underestimation. They cannot only access their mom's mom and their dad's dad, they can access their mom's dad (and their mom) and their dad's mom (and their dad). The amount of ancestors they can access doubles not in total, but with every generation. The amount of memories Leto II can tap is near infinite in comparison to what a RM has access to. Am I understanding this correctly?

Mixed 3D modelling and rendering + hand drawn frames

Hello lazyweb, I have a question about Dune economics after reading the first 3 books + watching the 2 recent movies + watching the Bene Gesserit TV series. Space travel is said to be both critical to survival of the empire, and insanely expensive.

How can both things be true in any sustainable way? (Sustainable as in: space travel has supported humanity for millennia, while being expensive for all that time)

What things are actually transported/bought/sold between planets? Are any of those things necessary for the ACTUAL SURVIVAL of a planet? How can planets survive if it's so insanely expensive to transport them there?

As I understand it, for some time either during or after Leto II's reign, humanity scatters because interplanetary travel collapses. How can they survive for no-idea-how-much-time cut off from other planets? What were they missing that was so crucial in the two dozen millennia before that?

I snagged this set for $8 at a thrift/used book shop! I don't even speak French, but it was too good to pass up! The box itself is a little beat up but the books themselves are in near perfect condition! :D

After reading the books I found myself loving the movies even more, but also feeling like they lacked certain things that would make them better films.

For Dune: Part One, I would have included the banquet scene as it provides a great setting to basically summarize the politics of the imperium; the relationship between CHOAM, the guild, the houses, and the emperor, even the taboo nature of atomics beyond that of our own timeline. Without it, the Imperial plot to use the Harkonnens to destroy the Atreides seems to two-dimensional and bland, whereas in the book it is a complex political scheme with tons of moving parts. More specifically, it also would provide a perfect opportunity to exhibit Paul’s innate political prowess that he would eventually use as Emperor when he takes over hosting the banquet in Leto’s place. Overall I feel like this would have given the Atreides’ move to Arrakis and subsequent Harkonnen attack more weight within the context of the world the scene helped build.

For Dune: Part Two, I would have included a defeat montage, similar to the montage already in the movie of Fremen attacks under Rabban, punctuated by Paul being driven closer and closer to desperation once Feyd becomes the Harkonnen planetary governor of Arrakis. In the book, it makes sense why Paul eventually gives in and drinks the Water of Life, but in the movie it seems very rushed.

Curious what you guys think about these changes and what you guys would change, if anything.

I recently saw Nolan’s The Odyssey in regular IMAX and it had been a visually stunning experience. The 70mm showing of the movie though also features a Dune Part 3 preview of the battle sequence shown in the trailer and while this can just be due to promoting another IMAX experience, the parallels between the two movies and connection between them are more than than just commercial.

The Atreides line of course goes back to Atreus so Paul is a direct descendent of Agamemnon who of course launches a war against Troy and has his own conquests. Agamemnon like Leto I both fall into a trap laid for them and have tragic ends. Leto II in fact even briefly channels Agamemnon in CoD at one point.

But the main parallel has to do with the curse of the house of Atreus. In the Greek myths, there is a cycle of violence that follows the family due to a curse and the resulting tragedy that unfolds over generations. The curse itself is only broken by divine intervention in the form of Athena which loosely mirrors Leto II taking on his millennia spanning sacrifice to break cycles of human self destruction at the historic level. The overall tragic arc of the Greek myths though parallels some of the tragedy of the future Atreides line and I’m wondering how intentional it was on Herbert’s part.

I saw the movies and I am reading Dune now I am at chapter3 after Paul was tested She and Lady Jessica are talking and I was wondering was she the Supreme Commander of the order in the past ?

Found this ad in my collection, from Omni Magazine February 1986

My progress towards a collective family tree across Frank Herbert’s books, Brian Herbert’s books and some info from the dune encyclopedia. Given the multiple sources there are a few contradictions but I tried to merge everything together in a way that made the most sense. I’m planning on going over everything to finalize and maybe try and get some kind of digital scan of it. I was thinking about adding notable events on the timeline to the left as well, lmk if there’s any ideas that could be interesting to add to this, or of course if there’s any glaring issues found. I’d love to try and make this as accurate as possible for people to reference!

I've been really annoyed by the idea of these movies actually releasing on the same day, and it seems more likely to actually happen every day. Would love to hear your thoughts if you are excited for Dune and Avengers to share a release date!

They spend generations planning for the Kwisatz Haderach, but once Paul rises they don’t seem able to do much to stop him.

They also planted the Missionaria Protectiva among the Fremen, yet they don’t seem to realize those same myths would help Paul unite the Fremen and overthrow the Emperor.

They also keep talking as if everything is still going according to plan, even though it feels like most of
what’s happening is completely outside their control.

Is this intentional on Denis Villeneuve’s/Frank Herbert’s part, or am I misunderstanding the Bene Gesserit’s role?

What do you think happened to the remaining Harkonnens? If there is any books or facts on this please let me know.

I’ve been a Dune fan for years. I’ve read the books, watched the films, and I still can’t get enough of Frank Herbert’s universe.

One of my favorite parts of the series has always been the chapter epigraphs. They add so much depth to the world that I often found myself going back just to read them again.

So I built Imperial Epigraphs, a simple iPhone app inspired by those chapter epigraphs.

The app lets you browse them, save your favorites, and turn them into wallpapers for your device. It’s intentionally simple and completely free.

I also wanted to acknowledge two community projects that inspired me to finally build it. If you haven’t seen them yet, they’re fantastic:

• Epigraphs of Dune: https://www.epigraphsofdune.com/
• Library of Dune: https://www.libraryofdune.com/

If you decide to give the app a try, I’d love to hear what you think. Suggestions, bug reports, and ideas are always welcome.

App Store: https://apps.apple.com/ma/app/imperial-epigraphs/id6786325539

So im about halfway through Messiah, and I've got some questions about the Jihad that killed 60+ billion ppl.

1) What was the actual logistics of the Jihad? Obviously its about killing "non believers", but how specifically was it done, and what was the process? I presume the leaders of the Jihad would identify the planet whose turn was "next" to be purified, and the Spacing Guild would fly the legions there (under threat of having their spice cut off) to do their work. But once they got there, would they first have demands? Would they give the planet the chance to convert to the "One True" Fremen religion to save themselves, or would they simply slaughter everyone first and repopulate the planet?

2) What was the mechanism of killing? Fremen are famous for being the best hand to hand fighters in the universe. But surely a few million Fremen didnt slaughter 61 billion ppl BY HAND in just 12 years? Mathematically that seems really really difficult considering everything we know about guerilla warfare and insurgencies. Surely these people wouldnt just line up to be killed, many would flee to forests, or caves (or whatever such defensive places existed on their worlds) and form insurgencies and fight back (much like the Fremen themselves did under Harkonnen rule). Not sayibg tge Fremen wouldnt eventually succeed, but these things would drag on much longer than they would have had to in order to subjugate hubdreeds of planets and kill billions of ppl. The extremely short 12 year window almost necessitates killing on an industrial scale with advanced, planetary scale weapons. Is there anything in the book about this?

3) What are the specific tenets of the religion the Jihadists are even so fanatical about spreading? Obviously Paul Maud-dib as Messiah is at or near the center of it, but it can't be JUST that. Like, when the Jihadists went to a planet to cleanse it, what were the demands they would have made in order to save themselves? Convert to the "One True Religion" of course, but what does that mean specifically? What do the Fremen actually believe?

For example, If we imagine a similar scenario in present t day and a bunch of fanatical Muslims went nation to nation demanding conversion to the "True Religion" or death, we can pretty easily answer that question. Converts would need to accept that There Is No God but God (Allah) and Muhammad is His prophet" as those are the basic tenets of the Muslim faith. Or if it was a fanatical Christian sect, it would be to accept that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was sent to die for humanities sins"

But altho the Fremen are descendents of present day Muslims, they are not Muslims. They make no mention of Allah, Muhammed, or even the concept of an all powerful personal God at the center of the religion. The Fremen religion reads much more like more primitive nature worshipping religions of ancient and indigenous cultures. If you HAD to pick a figure at the center of the Fremen religion, it would be Shai-Halud, but again, this reads more like the nature worshipping religions of old, worshipping the indifferent power the worm represents (like the Egyptions did with the Sun) than the idea that the worms are a PERSONAL God to the Fremen and somehow know and care about rhe Fremen ppl. In fact, this kind of fanatical religious killing seems to require a montheistic religious tradition, that kind of murderous energy needs a distinct and unambiguous single being who sits at the center of it and the Fremen seem much like an old school polytheistic society than one in the monotheistic tradition.

So what would the demands of conversion be? "Accept that There Is No God But Shai-Halud [the giant worm from our home planet] and Maud-dib is his Prophet"?

If it was, that would feel very incongruous with what the Fremen themselves seem to believe as their religion. And lets assume for a second thats what it was, why would so many planets resist against that? Why would they need to kill 61 billion? Understanding human nature (and despite the futuristic world of the book, human nature does seem to be very much unchanged) surely after they killed a few hundred million and sterilized a planet or two and it was clear they had the power, the ability abd the will to do so, the inhabitants would just submit when the Fremen showed up at their doorstep? "Yeah sure man, no problem. Worship your Worm. You got it". Many would do so half heartedly and would privately still keep their own religion, but surely they would not resist to the extent that it seemed everyone in the book did.

Is this all just a "suspension of disbelief" thing and the questions above are deemed not really important and not answered, or are there actually answers to these questions?

Love the series tho, definitely very layered writing

I was thinking about the plan to become a worm and Leto's transformation. I seem to remember him describing his legs as flippers in the book. It reminded me of the fishlike guild navigators.

Is Frank's intention to show Leto as the guild navigator of humanity along the Golden Path, his tank being the worm? By the time of the book we see him fully transformed as a navigator inside of it?

Some more pen and ink sketches I’ve been doing during breaks in reading. Sketching the Tleilaxu, BG Reverend Mothers, Sheeana and the worm, Miles Teg and the young Duncan Ghola, and loose sketches of the Honoured Matres.

Mentats are great advisors and can process information fast. Wouldn't it be great for noble houses to have one of their children be mentats advising the future lord or it can be the future lord itself.

There are few nobles who are trained mentats in the lore. So does the cons heavily outweight the pros of having mentat children?