I wanna preface that I want NO HATE, you can believe what you want and I am simply putting this out there to share my opinion.

Now with Deltarune chapter 5 there’s a scene where flowery says that Ralsei wants the blue and pink drink voucher and suggests him choosing it, to “not worry about Kris” (real important). It’s pretty clear Ralsei does want it, and after begrudgingly taking it, Flowery takes his leave and calls him Princess. A lot of people saw Ralsei being called Princess and the fact the voucher was blue and pink as an obvious trans allegory, which I can get I was thinking the same thing initially. Though once you think more about it and the context, it doesn’t work. Let’s start debunking the obvious one.

“Flowery called him Princess”
Flowery calls EVERYONE Princess, the entire chapter is filled with him calling the fun gang Princess all the time. This includes Kris, who y’know, you get flocked for if you call them a he/she. Plus earlier in the chapter Susie said she’s good with being the “king” of the festival, and we don’t take that as her being trans. Flowery also probably just wanted to poke fun at him to see his reactions. Y’know, what he’s been doing the whole chapter.

“The blue and pink voucher is the trans flag colors”
Let’s be honest this is a reach💀. I can see why people took it as that with the princess line but this is why you look at background information. The entire conversation between him and Flowery was about the prophecy and how Ralsei needs to have more faith in himself, treat himself with more worth and stop thinking of him as less than the Lightners. This itself has not only been a theme from earlier in the chapter, but from the last FEW chapters as well. And when he’s trying to convince him to take the blue and pink voucher, he says, “don’t worry about Kris”, blue and pink are Kris’s colors, the colors are used as a “oh this should go to Kris” thing, but he does want it. When they meet back up he gives Susie the purple one (Susie’s colors), and Kris gets to decide between the blue and pink one (their colors) and the green and yellow one (Ralsei’s colors). If you pick the green and yellow Ralsei comments on how Kris does have his interests in mind, proving that he wanted that one but wasn’t sure if Kris would give him it. Showing again how he’s just doing whatever the other fun gang members want and ignoring what he wants.

“Earlier in the chapter we saw him with a dress and he says I can be your princess Kris, if you want me to be”
Basically same thing as the last one, he’s just going along with what the Lightners want. Of course if you say it’s cool, he’s happy and says, “I’m so excited! I’ve been a prince for a while, but I haven’t been a princess yet. It’s fun to try new things, as long as it’s what other people want of course.” This seems to me FAR more like Genderfluid than trans. He doesn’t say he didn’t like being a prince, he’s just like, “oh hey, haven’t done this before.” And the line at the end shows how he’s still just doing whatever the Lightners/other people want. I can see this pointing to him being genderfluid. Remember, I’m not trying to prove he isn’t genderfluid, I’m trying to prove he isn’t trans

“He came out of a closet at the beginning of the chapter”
…Sonion, with the disproving I’ve already done it’s clear that’s just a coincidence

“He’s soft/unmasculine/cute”
….that argument does more harm than good yknow? This is the WORST offender of all. Yes, a lot of trans dudes are really soft/feminine, but what you’re implying is that ALL soft/unmasculine dudes secretly want to be girls. It can be a hint, but there’s nothing wrong with a dude being “unmasculine.” As a dude myself that isn’t very “masculine” and is kinda soft, I’m very comfortable being a man. I see a lot of myself in Ralsei because of that and his big self worth issues. That alone is not a good argument and probably hurts a bunch of dudes.

All in all, I can get why people thought this, but it’s pretty clear he isn’t. It’s just an out of context scene that was meant to symbolize his struggle with putting himself down, and flowery poking fun at him. Once again no hate, just giving my 2 cents.

Kris' gender is one that has been debated for a long time. Whether its non binary or up to interpretation, people have fought for 7 years. However, I think I have the truest answer!! 1. Kris' pronouns are they them. It's ignorant to say otherwise, because even toby fox has said it 2. Kris doesnt show any preference towards male or female clothes, whether it be the lightner live heels or the shootout suit. They dont have any male or female proportions either (yes you know what I mean stop being immature) 3. Kris is labeled in Ralsei's prophecy as "A HUMAN", while the church prophecy calls them "A CAGE..."

My theory is that Kris has no gender. They weren't birthed, but instead created by some other power to fulfill the prophecy (wing gaster??). They wouldn't have hormones or genitals or preference not for their will, but simply because they were made for the purpose of being a vessel. They dont like being a vessel, which is shown, but they fundamentally are one. Gendering Kris would be like gendering a chair. It was made to be, not to romanticize.

Not just that, but it would fit the spectrum laid out by the fun gang!

Ralsei, the strict prophecy follower

Susie, the monster who defies the prophecy as much as she can

And Kris, right in the middle, the human who wants to defy the prophecy but cant, because the prophecy is ingrained in them and will forever haunt them.

Therefore, I firmly believe that Kris' gender is not NB, or M, or F, but V for vessel, as they were created for the sole purpose of being the human cage of the prophecy.

Credit to u/Cinnaboopa

I'm not going to lie, the chapter itself was pretty fun, but it could've been something greater, I'd this was the final chapter where Toby could've added a fourth party member that isn't Noelle or even a fifth! Because Chapter 6 and 7 can't waste time at introducing new things while there's WAY too many unanswered questions that need to be solved first, but no, we didn't even get Noelle in this chapter! We could've had Catti and Jockington, they both have portraits, Jockington is in the prophecy and in my playthrough of chapter 5... I didn't interact with him to give him a beard! So we broke the prophecy and it's not that big of the deal, unless this post becomes outdated once chapter 6 comes out and Jockington just gets the beard automatically.

Catti had wasted potential, she could've been in the chapter 5 dark world, which is the perfect spot for a new member since the stakes are way lower then chapter 4's dark world. I just can't imagine Toby making them relevant in chapter 6 without us not feeling any attachment to any of Kris's classmates, even if Toby makes chapter 6 have the length of 3 chapters, it'll just feel like we're forced to bond with them and also they have no involvement into the current story unless the theory about Kris and Catti summoning the soul becomes true.

Do you think chapter 5 would've been better with or without any classmate?

If kris's knife broke in the dark world, would it make a crystal?, if so, what could it be?

Some people are saying that Knight is Kris and Noelle after Weird Route and with that, I have a question for those who believe, how Knight is appearing against heroes even if file 2(Weird Route file) doesn’t exist yet ?

I have been seeing a lot of discourse about the headcanon of Ralsei being Transfem, even talked about this with my sister some days ago to get a better understanding about the topic, cuz I am not the most active in the fandom to say at least

And honestly? I think it's fine

I personally don't believe it's the canon and I think it's cool to see a feminine guy be in a game like it's something normal which I think is something I think I don't see a lot, but I see that it has enough evidence that trans people can resonate with Ralsei's feelings through the story, how he wants to separate himself from what he was destined to be, and I think it makes sense why it would be seen as an allegory to transexuality

It's kinda a similar situation with some people having the headcanon of Diper from Gravity Falls being Transfem due to the showcase of his insecurities through the series, even though it's kinda the same insecurities you expect from a kid of his age

I think headcanons like this one are okay, as long as we don't force them into others, we respect them, and understand where the headcanons comes from

So, Ralsei told that everything in the dark world is just an illusion of darkness, and everything is not real. Then how do darkners can kill the fun gang in battle then if in the end, they are just object, like a card or a laptop can kill you?

Like we play as Susie for chapter 6 and we have to find out where Noelle and keis are or maybe in chapter 6 in general we play as another character at some point like Susie or Carol or anyone and also maybe we can play as Kris or Noelle in chapter 6 and that we just locked ourselves into a different ending for that save because the weird route gives you multiple chances to abandon it but since we stayed on it until the end of chapter 5 we no longer can abandon it we stuck with it but hey that's my idea and I have no idea if anyone else has come up with this or not so tell me if it's a good theory or if it's awful

When you interact with the papers in Asgore's room after the Dark World in Chapter 5 it says something along the lines of "You never liked paying attention".

I've not seen any discussion about this. But throughout the chapter flowery didn't want Ralsei to show Asgore his face and made him wear the disguise.

Am I being stupid and missed something but why was this the case? Obviously they look like the same species. I thought maybe Ralsei looks like Asriel but that doesn't make sense because Kris never said anything about that. So what gives?

If Papyrus is actually from deltarune, same as sans, then we (as kris at least) won’t see him. Which makes me believe that the weird route might actually be the canon route, and kris actually died in the lake.

So, I’ve heard there’s been a bit of debate about Ralsei's true identity after his encounter with Flowery, so, I had some ideas, and I think they’re interesting. Let’s think about the idea of impossibility. An impossibility would have to be something that breaks previously established rules, and what’s the most notable rule about darkners existing? Well, they have to have some physical object tied to them. Even the special cases have those, with the dust and the flowers themselves. I don’t think that could be simply that he is some living being, that’s hardly implausible, after all, we see seven of those in one chapter alone, and, not to mention, when Flowery calls Ralsei an impossibility, he doesn't include himself in it.
Thus, what is Ralsei then? How does he exist? Well, given his appearance. I think he exists out of Kris' memories. He looks like Asriel, and has his own name as an anagram of his, as those were the memories he was based on. Notably, Asriel is likely the person Kris would trust the most, after all, his parents arguably aren’t the most reliable for that. On a meta level, we could also say that Asriel is a face we, the audience, would likely also trust more than someone we don’t know. Why would that be important? This is more speculative,  but it corroborates my second point. I propose that Ralsei is, in a sense, an avatar of the prophecy. He exists because the prophecy does. Ralsei's purpose is to teach Kris, and by extension, the player, about the dark world and the prophecy, that’s why he knows all about it. Of course, given Kris' involvement with the Knight, he might also know. But the player sure doesn't. Perhaps that is why Kris’ memories, not Susie's, were used, as Kris has greater awareness of the Prophecy and also knew more people that the audience would recognize. This could all explain his capacity to travel between dark worlds, not only he is tied to Kris, thus making it so he could go wherever they went, but he likely had different properties thanks to his ties to the prophecy. We could even say he can be in Castle Town while Susie is there, and Kris is not, as he becomes part of Susie's memory after she meets him. In any case, this is just a theory, speculation even, so, I’d like to see other people’s opinions.

This is a string of theories i've put together to try to understand what direction Toby Fox is going with deltarune and I believe to have established the direction Toby aims to take the story. I present CONTROL Theory:

ROMHack Theory:
Tenna had a game that he modified to make it so that it's the one we see in the boards, the original game is the one we play which leads us to sword route. I believe this concept is a metaphor for gaster and deltarune. Gaster has modified DELTARUNE to make it "MY DELTARUNE". It is why the game is labelled as version 0.6.6.6. VERSION. It is an iteration, a copy of something that gaster has tampered with. This is known as ROMHack Theory.

Kris/Knight Motives:
This establishes a clear motive for the Knight and Kris to be working with them. They aim to cause the Roaring. Why? Perhaps they figured it out. A higher being has taken control over their world and forced it into a linear path the same way Tenna modified the original mantle game. They aim to take control back over their world. This parallel is mostly emphasised through Kris' own character, they've had their agency stripped away by US, the soul, and have shown multiple signs that they do not like us being in control of their actions. This has led me to believe that they seek to end the world and by definition end Gaster's DELTARUNE.

What this means for DELTARUNE:
DELTARUNE will be a game about the agency of it's characters, their FREEDOM. How they break free from the game's prophecy which I believe to be symbolic of the game's code, and how things are SET UP to happen on a meta-level. The main route will end with the prevention of the roaring and the seemingly saving of everyone except we failed and carried out gaster's experiment to completion. We didn't break free of the strings spamton neo so dearly talks about. It is only in the weird route where we challenge fate, challenge gaster and explore somewhere where no character has ever been before as Noelle put it. Remember how tenna was destroyed by the Knight in chapter 3? That is symbolic of us breaking free from the strings set out by Gaster, we will destroy the creator who forced us on the linear path onto his DELTARUNE. This leads me to believe a knight candidate such as Kris from the weird route, the popular Kriselle knight theory or the vessel as it's only fitting Kris takes their control back. Further evidence for this is Gerson's dialogue in his fight:

• The story, it became so grand, so overwhelming,
• Some say it swallowed up the author himself.
• The ones who could write the next, the youth, the pen was lying there for them to pick up.
• To make the next page.
• ...they never did.

The author is Gaster, the story is his DELTARUNE, he fell into his own creation and was bested by his subjects, shattered across time and space leaving the ones who could write the next (us) in control. The end of DELTARUNE's weird route will result in us breaking free of Gaster's game.

Anyway that's my current theory. I don't believe it to be fully correct but I do believe I am onto something. I was debating adding the forgotten man and 2 gaster conundrum I faced while making this theory and if you want to read up on that, this theory takes elements from the WITWOOGA? theory. Also important to mention, I didn't think of ROMHack theory on my own, I was alerted by someone on the DELTARUNE discord by the name of n1tro72 who planted the original idea in my brain which I carried forward with.

based on the system i’ve realized below, i’ve concluded order of strength in the game

this isn’t based off of stats cuz it’s pretty clear that those don’t matter very much (flowery having normal stats in battle but being strong enough to clash with the knight outside of it)

things that give you power in dark worlds

- belief that autonomy is attainable (jevil, spamton, gerson, noelle)

having a human SOUL that chooses you to harness its power (kris, noelle, spamton, gerson, flowery, pink)

being a lightner (kris, susie, noelle, berdly)

having a lot of value to someone in the light world, or representing something with a lot of value (gerson, all of the flowers, neo body, mew mew body, tenna, gerson statue)

being made of/representing the dark (knight, titan, jackenstein)

are something that expresses power in the light world (rouxls kaard, tasque manager, higher card values)

ordered from most to least power given

harnessing red SOUL > being of the dark > being a lightner > having light world value ?> harnessing another SOUL > being aware that freedom is possible > being a strong light world object

lmk if you disagree or are confused on placing

Was playing waiting room when I realized it was basically the sans motif timed differently. Is this a well known thing about this song?? What does it having the sans motif imply? iirc this motif is in the green room track as well isn’t it?

I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT TO CALL THIS. ITS JUST MORE OF A BASELESS PREDICTION THAT I WANTED TO SEE IF ANYONE ELSE IS THINKING THE SAME THING

I will preface this saying that this is more of a what if I have very little reason outside of what I say coming up to add to this theory. Feel free to prove me wrong. I most likely am. Then again, until we see the last credits, we won't know.

I was watching some discussion videos, and the emails from the questionnaire "when/where did she smile" was brought up and specifically the response saying "the place where it snowed" that being

"You know that isn't until later,"

so I have some thoughts on this. (This also presumes that Susie is successful in showing Noelle the dark world and some shenanigans dont happen)

It's a dark fountain in the hospital or the holiday house - how do we get here- Susie takes Noelle into castle town. Ooos and aaas Noelle learns about healing magic and wants to heal. Rudy takes it upon herself to try convincing Susie and Noelle, making the fountain and snow is there cause Noelle dark world (eh?)

Or

same beginning, but Rudy ends up dying, and Noelle is filled with grief and is inconsolable.(maybe he even died before she could get there cause she was with susie *very dark themes there but hey tobey isnt afraid of darker stories) Susie remembers what happened with Old man and says to Noelle that there may be a way to see him again saying that a dark fountain could maybe bring Rudy back. But Susie learned that she didn't know the old man well enough to bring him back, but Noelle surely does. Thus, a snowy dark fountain of grief is formed

Other ideas

It snows in hometown whether by unusual phenomenon or just turn of the season (looks to be halloween time ish they dont say it but they know what christmas is and arent saying that) and a dark world forms outside somehow. We have yet to see what happens when a dark world is made in an outside area it appears to just flow upwards and dispear, unable to flood an open area, but who knows

The only other significant times I remember snow being mention for other significant plots spots are in the sword route and you have to be in the ice palace but thats just a guide for weird route in cyberworld if im Not mistaken the roots doesnt happen until the mast visit and no snow is present there that im aware of.

The only other time outside of the literal weird route and the upcoming/not included sprites of hometown with snow on them is when the front door to the outside was left open and what i can only presume is the mid fall cool air coming in to chill the house causing the dark world to resemble snow. (This could have other implications too the whole chapter was about reliving the past in ways and having toriel in a cute gacha ball on a Christmas tree where the holidays were super important to tenna like it could mean milutliple things at once too)

People like to talk about every chapter representing different forms of escapism. Namely, they are games, the internet, TV, religion, and nostalgia. I think there are debates to be had about the exact truthfulness of this (games is repeated in chapter 3 more than representing TV), but more importantly, one chapter cannot fit into this at all.

Chapter 4’s entire purpose in the storyline is to bring a radical shift to the game in terms of vibes, plot, and theme. Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5 all feature a main antagonist who is trying to keep their Dark World open. I’d also add that these characters usually represent the purported forms of escapism (King is a standard villain which represents games, Queen embodies the Internet as a fast laptop, Tenna is the TV, Flowery is a callback to Asgore’s college days and marriage & to Undertale). Chapter 4 does not. You could argue the Knight fits the role, but they are untraditional as a chapter antagonist in many ways, which moreso adds to the ways Ch4 is a subversion.

I understand why people thought it would be escapism through religion in the pre-Chs.3&4 era, but looking at the plot of the chapter, this is not at all an accurate assessment. If anything, rather than bringing comfort to the Fun Gang, the Prophecy itself is the antagonist of the chapter, showing how the characters may not have free will and are destined to be apart of a predetermined set path. The characters aren’t escaping from anything: They are actively being confronted with the realest shit they’ve dealt with in the Dark Worlds. It is true that the forms of escapism are represented by the antagonists of each chapter, but at least the protagonists are having fun during the gameplay of the chapter. During Chapter 4, Susie is learning things about the nature of her world she wishes weren’t true.

I think Chapter 4 is trying to break this theme of escapism. Either that, or Toby Fox is trying to say something about real-world religion in his silly little JRPG. (That’s definitely not true, considering that it’s an invented religion specifically tied to the game’s plot.) The point is, a theme doesn’t have to be directly demonstrated in every single part of a story. The inversion is also important for a good plot, and we can’t dumb that aspect down in our analysis.

We all know that Papyrus Knight has mostly been a joke theory since its inception, however some have somehow taken it seriously and bent over backwards to justify it, no matter how little evidence there is or how many things are working against it, it should have already been dead in Chapter 4 with what Ralsei told us about Dustners but the discourse still continued, but now with multiple pieces of information Chapter 5 presents I can now announce without a shadow of a doubt, Papyrus Knight is absolutely dead, debunked, not possible, not plausible, hard deconfirmed and not a candidate anymore.

It was already a major stretch to assume the one that hasn't shown up in game at all yet, doesn't know what the sun is, has never met a human before Frisk (yet somehow is working with Kris if he was the Knight?), and only moved into town with Sans very recently is somehow working with Carol and wears fake antlers as a sign of allegiance, somehow knows the Shelter codes, and is willing to hurt the fun gang and kill darkners for some reason, all based on vibes and making up ways it connects to the game's "themes", the Knight's skeletal appearance (but other relevant parts of its appearance like the antlers mean nothing because it's a shapeshifter unless it supports my theory, then it matters), the fact that he isn't in the house ONCE in Chapter 4, and a motif in Dating Tense that also appears during Alphys' date. That's it. That's all they have.

However in Chapter 4, we learn from Ralsei after he crumbles the Sound of Justice statue, that Susie's Gerson came out all wrong and he can't be even brought back to Castle Town (with the fountain made of pure darkness) because "Darkners patterned after the memory of a loved one can only exist in specific darknesses". People have tried to misinterpret this line as "Oh it's just because Gerson is his favorite author, that's how it was able to recreate him" even though the clear subtext of what Ralsei said was that it has to be someone the fountain maker had to have known personally, not just some loose ephemeral one-sided parasocial connection with someone you've never seen before. Sans and Papyrus moved in long after Gerson died, meaning they never met him in person, much less had an opportunity to have a personal connection with him, whereas Asriel and Dess had him as a teacher when they were Kris's age, and the way he's portrayed as a snarky mentor figure lines up with that relationship far more. But people still managed to twist this obvious deconfirmation in ways that still justified their theory so let's move onto something that can't be ignored!

I talked about how Sans and Papyrus only moved in recently, but how recently? Well from Chapter 5 we have a hard cutoff date, last year's festival. Kris notes as Susie and Noelle are on the ferris wheel that someone else used to run it, and Susie notes when inspecting Sans and Papyrus's house that she doesn't really remember what was there before but that someone else used to live there, a completely different building, and she lives just down the street from their house, as if Sans saying they just moved down there wasn't enough in Chapter 1, residents that have lived there for years indicate their arrival was recent.

Now that that's been established, we find in Chapter 5 through Asgore's notes that he found a Black Shard at the scene of the crime Dess dissappeared a LONG time ago, years ago, a Black Shard matching the ones he found at the library and church (also confirming the Knight made these two fountains), a dark world a long time ago made by someone possessing a black shard HAS to be the Knight, and since Sans and Papyrus only moved in less than a year ago, and Papyrus Knight's supposed motivation is working for Carol to bring Dess back, it's literally impossible for him to have been present and if he was somehow, it doesn't line up with this supposed motivation at all.

So with that being said, Papyrus Knight is officially out of the running in terms of being considered an actual candidate.

unrelated image i got it from r/drawthisasdeltarune2

okay so the two routes we got rn are the main route/side a and the weird route/side b.

on one hand, we have the main route where according to the prophecy, something bad is gonna happen to susie and maybe kris and it's such a bad thing that ralsei starts praying for the prophecy to change/not happen. i assume the main route is gonna be where 'despite doing everything right you were still punished' kinda plot and would lead to a bad ending.

on the other hand, we have the weird route where you deviate from the prophecy which probably isnt gonna lead to kris and susie getting whatever happening to them but is obviously worse as berdly straight up dies and kris and noelle pass out for a full day because it leads to chapter 7 (and probably drown) plus noelle goes insane which leads to a worse ending but technically didn't lead to the original ending.

before anyone says like "but susie is gonna change the prophecy because fate" or smth, realistically the prophecy already has that planned where susie thinks she changed fate but actually she didn't and shes getting cut in half vertically by the roaring knight or smth.

We already have t-shirt in Undertale segment called "Delta rune" and as i remember it was before Deltarune release.

So can it be, that "darkheart" is also foreshadowing for anything?

Ok so we all know Shadow crystals are the embodiment of lost dreams, and what if the Knight is entirely made of Shadow crystals?

The Knight is the embodiment of everyone's grief/lost dreams of dess's disappearance, this would explain why the Knight has so many similarities to other characters, the holidays would obviously experience the most lost dreams and grief for dess disappearance, and why alot of the poses matches Kris's

Kris is heavily implied to be with dess when she disappeared, so it would make since why the Knight has alot of similar poses and attack with knives, kris would the first to experience the loss of their dreams

The Knight is a peace of everyone's grief (specifically the holidays and dreemurrs) and all the grief began to form in the depths which led into the coronation of the Knight, and since the Knight is the embodiment of the grief anger, sadness and despair everyone went through, is the reason why the Knight wants to start the roaring is because it takes the resentment from dess and multiples it tenfold

And therefore would explain why it's home seem to be in the bunker (because it also heavily implied to lead to the depths)

And the reason why kris is working with the Knight is do to kris not fully knowing what the Knight is, from all we know kris saw this deer looking being that has alot of similarity to dess, also do to big of the Knight having partly the lost dreams/grief of kris is the reason why the Knight is somewhat friendly to kris. And connection to carol could just be from kris, carol might not as involved as we think, and the main promise that kris is to being back dess

The star looking attack could be interpreted as snowflakes and the attack does break like ice which is a parallel to the holidays in general. The final attack the has Knight is a mirror to asriel attack in undertale, with carol the kantana on the wall in the holidays(which is the weapon the Knight holds), and I've already mentioned the pawells with kris

And reason the Knight kidnappes people is because it blames them for "it's" disappearance. And the reason why it kidnappes Undyne is because she's with the police and asgore was with the police at the time. And we think that Toriel was just a decoy and to keep the fun gang busy and they would be to beaten to help Undyne (who is the person they really wanted)

I would also like to point out that susie is a direct opposite to the Knight because in this theory the Knight is formed from everyone's lost hope/dreams and as we know susie has a lot of hopes and dreams and funnily enough she is the main way to beat the Knight in the game being the only one to do any significant damage to the Knight

Ok that's all the big things in the theory, obviously this doesn't explain everything and has big stretches but i feel like it have enough merit to be at least possible

If there's any big holes in theory please mention it in the comments