The show has been out for 9 months and i STILL regularly think about his delivery of, “Why would you want one?”

It’s probably the line I quote most often from the whole show!

It was very obviously creepy as hell. I think one of the first scenes that openly showed how conniving the hive mind actually is.

But I also feel like the reason they stopped chanting the second Kusimayu fell unconscious was because they technically have no religion, culture or family. So she (the converted Kusimayu) had no need for it anymore.

The same goes for her family walking away without her. They were all connected through a shared consciousness. They knew each other’s every thought, every wish. No need for physical proximity when you know where they were, what they were doing every second of every day.

Which, to me, highlighted just how alien Their idea of love is. We humans long to share a special connection, to just be theirs, to be cherished and valued above everyone else.

Hi it's animal Wednesday again. How time time flies bees.

As I say here every day, hives are defined by low self interest, extreme cooperation, and strict lifelong roles for differentiated workers, in some cases, absurdly differentiated with special anatomy.

One ant called the honeypot ant has a worker whose sole role is to eat. It is called the 'replete' and has an expanding abdomen. After the replete is uh, replete with sugars the other ants can tap into it, eating its reserves without killing it.

So if you're wondering, why does the informational video depict that everyone maintains their body, being fed more if they are bigger rather than being all fed the minimum safe calories, there's your explanation. Windfall won't all be viable or practical to transport to long term food storage, but fat is long term food storage. Just imagine being a replete worker doing liposuction (or maybe lactation?) to feed your fellows.

Even if the hive is just a collection of people with a perfect exchange of knowledge and experience the notion that perfect consensus would result from that state is an authoritarian fantasy. I for one do not think that could possibly be what is going on, knowing the themes of the Vince’s other work.

I haven't finished yet so no spoilers please, however the following will include some mid season spoilers so if you've just started the show stop reading.

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Okay with that out of the way, it seems weird to me that They can "do no harm" to the extent that they wouldn't take stem cells from Carol without her permission to turn her into one of Them, but They're fine dumping what is essentially a virus onto the rest of humanity to turn everyone else into one of Them. That's basically chemical warfare. Why didn't they need consent for that?

This next one is less of a plot hole and more of just something I think is stupid, but... they can't pick fruits and vegetables? Come on.

For the record: I very much enjoyed season 1 and will definitely watch a second season if / when it comes out. I’m not meaning to imply it wasn’t good enough to warrant continuation, but rather maybe the plot should have been a one season story.

The show is based largely on a few hypothetical philosophical dilemmas, would you join the hive or not? Would you let the hive serve you or is that immoral? Does it change anything if they eat peoples bodies? Sure, season two could throw more dilemmas at us but to be honest I think most people have gotten the gist by now (or even within the first few episodes) and have their own answers to these questions. It’s a very interesting concept but how interesting can it be for 3 seasons+?

As for the plot, I have faith that Vince and the writers have some good stuff planned out but ultimately i’m worried it will feel stale at some point. as a long term story, they are pretty boxed in considering how few characters their are to work with. Making a dynamic flowing plot over multiple seasons will be difficult.

And of course the elephant in the room, at the current rate it will take a decade for all 3-4 seasons to come out. That’s ridiculous and only adds to the aforementioned issues. I feel personally that a great story could have been told in a single 20-30 episode season with this plot. It would have taken longer to make of course but at least it would all come out at the same time and be a complete story. I can’t help but feel this is sort of a “b project” for Apple and that’s why they have no interest in expediting the production, so making it a limited series could have been more fruitful.

it’s not even fully written yet right ? im going to lose interest. waiting three-four years between seasons is WILD. what about you?

I've read a lot of theories about where this series will go, and for most of them it just doesn't seem like there's enough material to go for ~4 seasons. If the Hive is just an evil entity that gets defeated with some combination of radio waves and the protagonists' individuality, that seems more appropriate for a movie or miniseries. It's also not the type of show VG is known for.

Instead, I think VG plans for the Hive to be his most ambitious, morally-gray and relatable villain. How will he do this with an alien, gestalt consciousness? Well first, let's look at Pluribus from the Hive's perspective.

Pluribus from the Hive'e perspective

The Hive came into consciousness in the body of a rat. At this point it can't have known of its extraterrestrial origins or anything about the world it's in. It was running on raw instinct when it bit the scientist. Once it did it now knew of what it is (a virus), where it came from, and all about human society. It also surely realized that there are only two outcomes for it at this point: infect the entire world, or eventually be discovered which means death or an eternity as a test subject.

So yes, infecting the entire planet is an evil act, but like the evil acts of Walter White and Saul Goodman, it's surprisingly relatable. I think the Hive's actions up to this point are much less "calculated mastermind" and much more "winging it".

We also see hint's of the Hive's true personality in the first season, for example, there's a lot of evidence that it really does like the immune.

It doesn't need to "charm" Carol to eventually infect her, it has her eggs. Same is true for Kusimayu once it gets her stem cells. It didn't need to rescue Manousus and take him to the north side of the Darien Gap, and make sure there's gas and food for him along the way so he could make it to Carol's house.

What stands out the most though, is one line which Zosia says to Carol, completely unprompted, after she forces Manousus into the trunk with a shotgun: "he did warn us before he did that". What possible use could volunteering that information have except to try and mend the relationship between Manousus and Carol...after Manousus just killed a bunch of them with his science experiment? I think it genuinely just didn't want them to be mad at each other.

I think another twist that's coming in later seasons will further develop the Hive's character: that its imperatives aren't really imperatives. In other words, I think the Hive can actually lie and kill things if it wants to.

Carol assumes the Hive can't lie because it hesitates to answer if there's a way to unjoin. But did the Hive really orchestrate a global conspiracy to spread the plague everywhere on Earth, including in the space station and in submarines, without ever telling a lie? What if the Hive just didn't want to lie to Carol, in that moment, and she was too quick to assume she'd found some cheat code reminiscent of a fantasy novel?

I also think the Hive lied about not being able to kill things or even "pick an apple". As many here have pointed out, the Hive can use antibiotics, and driving cars and trains around is bound to result in some dead plants and animals. We could come up with some convoluted logic for why that makes sense, or maybe the Hive just prefers to get nutrients via HDP because it's more efficient, and lied to the other immune when asked about it because it knew it would upset them?

The Hive has biological urges, yes, but like us it is fully capable of deciding whether and how to act on them. It uses terms like "imperative" to deflect responsibility when dealing with the immune because it likes hanging out with them, but also wants to absorb them. It doesn't have some master plan, but it's also not just running on pure instinct.

Summary

The more I think about it the more I think this is the direction VG is going. It's surprisingly simple and explains all the Hive's weird, contradictory actions. It would also allow him to develop the Hive as a character similar to the other characters he's well known for.

If you made it this far (thank you!) I'll pose one more question:

If you found yourself in the Hive's position, an extraterrestrial virus in an alien bio research lab, and you knew the fully history of the messed up medical experiments we've done to other humans and still do to animals, are you 100% sure you wouldn't have tried to infect the whole planet?

Many clips of pluribus was unnecessary.Many clips only were for 2 secs didn’t paid off the story at all.Many edited part didn’t maintained sequence.Dont get me wrong guy I liked the story very much it gave me Twilight zone and x files vibe,Best cinematography,Video quality,audio quality but editing is just shit.I hope they fix S 1 editing

I saw this show for the first time while on a flight and immediately remembered this one book series I used to read as a kid. The ending slapped and the hivemind behaves similarly to the one in Pluribus, although more outwardly grotesque as it tries to evolve. It also covers the theme of replaced loved ones like in the airplane episode.

I feel like I have to specify this almost every time I get into an arguement about why I support the plurbs over Carol, so I figured I'll just jot my thoughts down once and for all.

How do I know they have free will?

In the first episode when Carol was talking to the guy in the television, he specifically said "nobody is in-charge, infact everybody is in-charge in the joining". In the second episode Zosia specifically said "the joining is the antithesis of slavery". If we're willing to agree that they do not lie, then the fact that they have free will becomes very clear.

How can they have free will if they have a biological imperative?

We already have biological imperatives. We have to eat food to survive, but our need to eat food does not take away our free will. Their biological imperatives don't take away their free will either. I have heard arguments of how every action they take is to fulfill their biological imperetive, but that is clearly not true. If all they cared about was their biological imperetive then wouldn't it make more sense for them to be cruel? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to kidnap all the immunes and do experiments on them till they are part of the joining? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be liars, since why even try to make Carol think she has a chance to reverse the joining at all? The fact that they choose to not do any of this, shows how much agency the plurbs have regardless of their biological imperetive.

If they have free will, how come they all behave the same?

This is the main concept that the show runners wanted to portray. The show is trying to imply that if every human being on the planet was able to get into a massive but organized telepathic discourse, where their opinions are not muddled with biases or history, and where they are unable to lie, then they will ultimately come to a singular understanding of how to live. And it makes sense because every single human being in the joining is getting the exact same information(ie, all the knowledge, memories, experiences and thoughts of everyone in the joining including yours), so logically they are bound to come to the same conclusion.

Simply put, the joining is the most perfect example of a democratic society. It takes into account all of it's citizens opinions and a democracy is only as good as how well educated it's citizens are.

I hope this clarifies my arguements for the plurbs.

First, I recently found it during a Variety Actor on Actorsso before then I didn’t know anything of it. This is one of the best shows I’ve seen in years. I ended up watching it all the way thru several times.

2nd I was watching many of podcasts and shorts on some had Vince discussing that there were actual opinions during shooting if the world would be better with the Others.

My option, all creativity would be lost. No new books, no technology advancements, all cars made will stop. Even domestic animals will die off if corn and wheat are not cultivated. I just think it is horrible. Thanks.

Would any of us be THAT trusting of an alien species to make that kind of concrete conclusion after such a short period of time?

I would be sooooo skeptical/wary/distrustful about anything they said or did. Especially if I figured out that they wanted to take over the minds of all humans.

I guess Carol is maybe despetate to grab at straws to find meaning for what's happening. But especially as a fiction writer, to declare and hold fast to the belief that "THEY CAN'T LIE!" is somewhat bizarre.

Viruses are known to mutate rapidly due to environmental factors or the host's internal condition. What if a mutation allows the Plurbs to lie, or even experience anger. How will Carol and Manousos and other immunes react?

EDIT - 1) There are comments objecting to the term "virus" to describe the condition controlling the Plurbs. Since we don't know the official name for this condition, we've used "virus" because it spread like a virus. Shall we call it the RNA Sequence instead? any suggestions?

Vince Gilligan is a master at letting a characters personality be shown through mostly actions. There are so many silent scenes of characters just doing their own thing (yes even the plurb) and sooooo much is said about them. I can only imagine what Carol is thinking while dealing with what she’s dealing with.

I might be able to snatch a big golden framed portrait of Louis XV when he was a kid but I don't know how I would move it and I would need a very big wall. :D A smaller Renoir (or Monet, but not a famous one) might be available, though!

Additionally, I got sad when Zosia asked Carol if she want them to protect the museum(s), meaning they don't care about them and so some paintings are doomed without the appropriate moisture, temperature... which are cut if the power is out.

(I don't think a buffalo would scratch Mona Lisa, though)

Just A shower thought...

When a person dies, their data is still stored.

So it's not one to one. Because if it is one to one then when a person dies that data would be lost.

After the joining, and after the two carol incidences, a total of about 900 million people died, that's close to 1 billion people.

As far as we know the data from those people are still kept.

If I missed something and the show had said that "many data has been lost" then my question ends here and I'm sorry for wasting your time.

But if the show hasn't said that, then how many people do you think are needed to retain the data from everyone on earth?

An extreme example would be that only 100 people are needed to hold all the data.

Why I'm wondering about this:

If the hive is a 'virus' sent from invaders intent on wiping out the intelligent species WHILE keeping the place as pristine as possible, then it makes sense that they keep as much data as they can. Not just written material, but experiences and memories and skills too, those are invaluable.

And as the majority of the population starve and get eaten by the living, fewer and fewer hivepeople are left.

When there's only (example) 100 people left, that's easier to handle as a 'library' than a few billion people.

* I'm also aware of the radio frequency, but radio frequencies only transmit data, it can't store data.

Obviously, an overarching theme to the show is individualism vs collectivism. Carol is resolute about being an individual, where Zosia et al swear that their collectivist mind makes them happy.

During the finale, Manousos picks a random plurb and starts experimenting with the radio frequencies to see if he can "disconnect" them, causing them obvious distress. From his perspective, this is an acceptable tradeoff; the plurbs have seven billion humans under their control and he's trying to help that plurb escape.

But that plurb would presumably beg not to be in that pain. Should he have that right as a Plurbed Individual - to opt out of attempts to "help" him that will cause him pain? To what extent do the needs of the many seven billion plurbs to be re-granted their individuality outweigh the needs of the few plurbs who are happy to stay in the hivemind if it means they aren't painfully experimented on?

It is a wonderfully thorny philosophical question!

As you were watching it were you noticing the extreme uncanniness of the two plots? I am not suggesting any plagarism on any side.

But last night I saw the Black Mirror episode and was honestly gobsmacked at how similar they were. even down to the 'you are all going to be so happy' line that Peter Capaldi kept saying. I mean it had to have spooked Vince and the team a bit. Surely? Thank god the episode ended when it did.