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I think the next generation of consoles is in for a bumpy ride TBH, they'll be a lot more expensive due to the AI gold rush, and due to global economic malaise, people have a lot less to spend...
There was a game many years ago, I think it was called Warrior 13 and a FPS, that was around 13KB in size. And then generated the whole environment, weapons etc. from scratch using algorithms.
I'm going in steps. Just went down to the low megabyte range with a Sega Saturn (that I'm defo not just emulating, why would you ever think that)
But anyway, unironically, we need more devices using low end hardware with unorthodox interaction options like the Playdate. We need someone to revive the spirit of Iwata era Nintendo, to think outside the box and create interesting non-standard experiences with affordable hardware while prices are so horrendously elevated.
In other words, and saying this on the PC Master Race sub feels like heresy, it would be the perfect time for someone to create a games console. As in an actual one, not just a mutilated PC.
I guess it depends on what you define as a PC. I've been tinkering with retroPi for years and just got a retro handheld last year that I loaded up with a stripped down version of bazzite called knulli.
The first 20 or so years of video games is like 25 GB.
The entire PS1 library is 450 GB.
People can make games that fit into those old school requirements.
Unironically, I was looking up things like where to source Motorola 68000 CPUs and FM Synthesis chips in the modern day after I wrote this. Turns out they're still making both for one reason or another, and you'd end up at 30€ (have only been casually looking in Germany) for both together from middlemen, so probably 10-20 from the factories in China.
Edit for the main hardware: 16 bit memory for embedded systems can be found at 8,30€ for 512KB, so probably like 5 from the factory
Edit for cartridges: ROM storage can be had for roughly 1,50€ for 32Mbit, so only slightly cheaper than the N64 days probably
If someone developed a low-RAM graphics chip and a motherboard to go with them, squeezing out a new, very beefy 16-Bit console (+controller) for under 100€ might be feasible. And I'm talking beefy beyond the power of the upcoming Neo Geo AES+ here, which costs twice that.
What I'm still stumped at is what manner of cool idea and form factor could make the endeavor worthwhile. I'm not Iwata enough to cook some cool idea up in half a day.
General Edit: Saved the comment, might turn the idea into an open source project like the GameTank
i don't think we're at the rental phase yet, instead they're going to try to encourage people to use "buy now pay later" plans through programs like Klarna
I can see Microsoft maybe even dropping out at this point, since their whole ethos has been to dilute Xbox with the whole "everything is an Xbox" attitude , with their focus on gamepass.
Sony could have next to no competition and still struggle with how unpopular the decision to drop disk support is, alongside the inevitable price hike in hardware costs. What I think will be challenging is that, even though prices go up as wages have technically gone up (median salary is ultimately higher than it used to be, even if other costs have outstripped it), there going to be a psychological hurdle if prices too over the 1000 mark. Even if you account for the fact that the PS3's $600 launch price would be over 1000 in today's money, there's a psychological hurdle of actually seeing that number as the price tag.
I think Nintendo have lucked out by launching the switch 2 before things got really stupid.
You said "even if you account for the PS3 being over $1,000 in today's money" like that was a mark in its favor.
The PS3 did terribly at launch because the price was too high. The system didn't actually take over market dominance until the price fell and the exclusives had really poured in.
Consoles this generation have only gotten more expensive with time, not cheaper.
So if a console is $1,000 or more, they have an incredibly difficult hill to climb.
they want to move to cloud computing. i've been laughed at for being a conspiracist about this, but i think it's just how the pieces will fall together.
The tech simply isn't ready for that yet. They might get people to try it, but the moment someone sets their controller down to go to the bathroom, answer the phone, take the dog out, etc and the service kicks them from their game without saving? People aren't going to just accept that.
Not to mention latency, lack of high-end resolution, a library that doesn't always have all the games they want to play, and the realization that they don't own the game to boot up at will or take to a friend's house?
It'll kill their business. There are too many pain points still.
They’ll probably try it but they definitely don’t want that to be the future. Consoles exist to be frictionless. Streaming a game will never be truly frictionless.
lots of places still have dogshit internet infrastructure.
All the ISPs always use the "lack of need" as a reason not to roll out fiber to the door universally. But this kind of service is one of many that would only work of the ISP infrastructure was already in place.
Yep, best internet I can have in my area is around 6 gig an hour. Its horrible. Internet needs to be taken over by the government by now since companies don’t care about increasing the speeds. Internet is not a luxury like it was in the 90s it’s a necessity such as power and water. We should have gigabyte internet or fiber across the entire country by now. I had fiber almost ten years ago and it was amazing taste of the future.
My one theory that next gen could work is, sell it for 1K+, its not going to sell but its going to take multiple years for gamer to adopt the new gen and developer to make next gen game for it anyway. And hopefully price gone down by then and they can brag about huge discount with actual next gen game avaliable
Think that will just extend the life of the current generation. They make most of their profits from game sales, so they can just keep developing games to PS5.
It was one of the biggest selling points on the ps4. It gained them so much positive press when Xbox did the exact same thing, removing the disc drive of the xbone. It's so weird that Sony is repeating the mistakes of their previous competitor
Sony are complete fuckheads unless they're the underdog. We saw it when they were on top with the PS1-PS2 era leading to them shitting the bed with the PS3's alien architecture that gave Xbox a huge leg up as a competitor. They clawed back market share when Xbox shat the bed, allowing them to be the pro-consumer alternative and rode that success through PS4-PS5.
Now they're back on top, we're seeing the same "too big to fail" attitude except Xbox aren't going to capitalise on it.
Microsoft lost the digital library battle with the PS4 era and drove Xbox into the ground as a platform by watering its identity down through their multiplatform and gamepass push. They've now been handed the golden opportunity to have Xbox games reach the PC market while also revitalising their console brand as the only next gen console to have physical games. It's the reverse of the PS4/Xbone relationship and their best opportunity in years to claw back good will and market share from Sony. So of course they won't do that.
I wish there was an actual competitor right now because arrogant Sony genuinely results in some of the worst eras of gaming. They were great when they were fighting for their lives in the PS3 era, they were actually offering good deals and making interesting and varied games.
I think the entire position is that nobody was buying PS5 discs and that those who were are bargain hunters who were buying discs at undervalue or worse at undercost.
Of course they probably didn't see the hubbub being as big as it was, but I can only assume that ultimately with all the other pressures on the market and game development, they have to stop leaving money on the table and some MBA bean counter has done the math.
Let's face the reality that the PC gamer market already abandoned physical media and it happened so-so long ago that probably two generations of people reading this thread never played PC games from a disc. Pretty sure I stopped as soon as Steam came out.
I'm sorry but the crowd consoles appeal to is more than just people on Reddit. There are plenty of people that just buy the next Playstation or Xbox and don't really care about the things people online do.
You have to remember that most console buyers are casual gamers that just want to play their favourite game. Perhaps at first they'll be confused about why discs are no longer an option, but they'll quickly move on from it.
You're underestimating just how many people were actually buying physical copies. Currently, only around 3% of their yearly revenue comes from physical copies of games compared to 30% from direct downloads of full games either from the Playstation Network or PC through Steam and Epic Game Store. 29% of their revenue comes from DLC or microtransactions which are also digital.
You will hear a ton of bitching about it but going away from physical copies won't move the needle much in the form of sales. What will hurt them is the cost of the machine will be astronomical down the road.
Going to be 1000 USD mimum. That'll cost them the causals they'll stick with what they have.
Them killing discs has sent me back to PC Playstation was always my preferred way to play games since the PS1 days but have always had a pc as secondary option. The Sony tax on PSN is very real steam sales are significantly better than Playstation l.
Ive just upgraded my rig for the first time in 8 years and it feels dam good.
If its an all digital future im going with Valve a company that actually has a refund policy and who's store front will still be here in 20 years.
That was during the COVID gaming rush though. We were all trapped in our homes with loads more disposable income because you couldn't go spend it outside, and nothing to do other than game. The numbers of available consoles also genuinely did get outstripped by demand because Sony wasn't ready.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was an attempt by scalpers to drive a bubble when the PS6 launches, as they're doing it with everything new these days. I don't think you'll see casual gamers purchasing at a scalper price point though. The PS5 has had a long and successful tail in terms of sales once console supplies were plentiful, due to your average joes buying at standard RRP
Yeah, but it is not the leading factor in dropping hardware sales. We are talking about a 30% price increase on older hardware, even people who are not affected by the recession are recoiling away from that because there is no value in it.
Steamdeck isn't really a luxury good though. Its expensive sure, but its still a consumer electronic they'd like to sell to a wide market. If they can't it will fail and go away.
Luxury items refers to the goods someone buys when they’re non essential and expensive. That does not include whether they’re performant.
It’s okay to be frustrated with the experience it provides for the money, but a real issue conflating this from an economic standpoint.
Also, it streams. So if you’ve also the luxury good of a high end performant rig and network, you can play current titles with minimal latency unlike Internet streaming, so the Steam deck becomes a luxury good that doesn’t play games locally. Which becomes a real gross extension of the definition of luxury because I excluded part of the definition earlier… and that it can also be used to signal wealth, status, and exclusivity.
Until, sooner or later, the competitors also raise their prices because of course.
I have a steam deck for a project that could be run from raspberry pi (with a not-so-cheap HDMI to type C + DP alt mode adapter), but then raspberry pi got expensive enough to make refurbished lcd deck for €340 actually look attractive.
Looking at electronics, there seem to be exactly two kinds of products: those who had significant price increases, and those who will have significant increases of prices.
Feels like i got the last chopper out of saigon with this one.
I have one of those alienware tank laptops - usually priced well over comparable msrp spec for spec. Its like 10 lbs, 17 inchs - 1070, i7 6th gen. Def gets bottlenecked, but its only needed its charging port replaced, never repasted the thing.
For the vast majority of typical gaming laptops in my experience, they tend to die after 3-4 years of heavy use. The thermal solutions degrade and problems ensue.
Most folks don’t want the weight of a big heatsink, as well as paying extra $ for something that may be inferior in raw specs to another unit.
The economy sucks but somehow Im seeing more new, and more new higher end brands than ever. When the Ford Escape inflates so much its getting pretty close to the price of a base Audi or Acura or whatever. Same with used cars too. Low end of the market isnt even low any more.
Until, sooner or later, the competitors also raise their prices because of course.
The funny part is they already are. PS5 pro is what, $900? That's with their baked in discount too.
I'd bet we don't see any new generation consoles for at least 4-5 years. If I were a betting man I'd put something like a PS6 at around $1200-1300 just because that's the reality of the hardware market in 2026 onward.
For 350 bucks the Steam Deck was an amazing handheld to pretty much emulate everything up to and including the PS2/Gamecube along with the ability to pretty much play every indie title on Steam + some older triple A games.
For 800+ bucks it’s literally just not worth it anymore. A lot of waaay cheaper alternatives as well if you’re just looking to get your emulation fix.
Yeah at launch the value proposition for the Steam Deck was amazing. Now it’s almost insulting (I say this as someone who’s bought 3!).
Now I look at the Switch 2 with the same respect I had for the Steam Deck in 2022. Great price (especially in this market) with very solid performance.
I wouldn't even say "some" older AAA titles. It can run most games well, just not on the tip top ultra setting. Last few months, I played Sekiro, the FF7 remake, RE4 remake, Saint's Row, Star Wars Fallen Order, and Yakuza Like a Dragon.
Doubt it'll be able to play GTA6 but yea, for $400ish, it's a powerhouse. If mine breaks, I'll buy one used that're still around 400 cuz ain't no way I'm paying 700+.
The new SteamOS version runs great on the Xbox Ally X and it's a much better experience than Windows. Unless you plan to play specific games with Windows kernel level anticheat on it I would always recommend installing SteamOS. But I would also question why you are playing such games on a handheld, because they are competitive and you're going to have a huge disadvantage playing with a controller.
Performance is about the same as on Windows but it actually does feel smoother because VRR works better and more consistently on SteamOS. Plus you can often get rid of 60fps locks by simple launch commands.
I wonder what the next hardware survey is going to say about OS distribution now that SteamOS is running on anything with AMD graphics. Bazzite already works well with Nvidia too (and so do most other distros, but Bazzite is closest to SteamOS experience).
I'm surprised they haven't priced hiked it yet. Maybe the current inventory was made when prices were still normal because the various Legion Go models are certainly priced much higher.
Gotta keep in mind that Valve doesn't get as good of a deal on hardware cause they aren't ordering a lot of production and they aren't exactly big players in the hardware business. Companies like Asus get a cheaper price cause they order far more and manufacturers will offer them better deals cause they'll also be considered for different product lines later.
tbh, it was never meant to play state-of-the-art AAA games
Edit: I stand corrected, at launch it was heavily marketed to play AAA games it seems. I left my personal bias interfere here, as I mostly okay lightweight indie games in my SD
I mean their entire marketing around launch was focused around playing current-gen games on the go.
Which was a really clever way to put it at the time because on paper we were in a new generation but "current-gen'' 4 years ago still meant "last gen but some games have optional current gen features" in 95% of cases. Once current gen actually hit and PS4 and XOne got left behind so did the Steam Deck.
It was, this is revisionism just because it is valve. But in honesty the product was marketed for latest games, and while it is expected to fall off with time there were no updates to match in a later version. Despite that it is probably not completely their fault because they are not a hardware company so it is hard to make competitive product in today market.
It absolutely was. What are you talking about? Lol. At launch the no1 game showcased for SD was CP2077, at the time the most state of the art aaa game you could get
That’s exactly what I did. The Ally X is $50 more and is 50% more powerful in most game benchmarks. When the steam deck launched it was a great device but the devices it inspired are more powerful and with the price hike it just can’t compete.
I really like that Valve is pushing hardware though, the steam deck popularized portable PC consoles and inspired major brands to make them. Hopefully the steam box does the same for the home console pc market, even if it doesn’t become a commercial success itself.
All over the years, Steamdeck supposed sales per month were like in the 100 000 units per month.
On today "global top seller", Steamdeck is between Dota2 and WarThunder
Dota2 is selling like min 400M a year so 33+M per month
so equivalent to +/- 50 000 Steamdecks/month
let's say War thunder makes 60M per year on steam... that's +/- 7200 Steamdeck per month
So the number could be between 7200 and 50000 units at minima estimations...
my guess is it is more in the 50-60% decrease in sales per month ..
and Steam machine could also steal some sales from Steamdeck
Read the article, the numbers seem highly speculative to me. No doubt sales are down but the why is a bit vague, could be price, could be stock issues. All I know is it is probably going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
I'm assuming the stock issues are tied to the price hike.
With component prices as they are, Valve had 2 choices - raise the price of the Deck, or stop selling it.
They chose to raise the price, but they also know it won't sell as quickly as before. So they reduce production.
The people most likely to still buy at the higher price are folks interested enough to purchase on backorder/wait for a restock, so slower production doesn't really mean they won't still sell out.
Yeah, and even secondhand games tend to be in the $40-$50 range unless they're shit games. Thinking about picking up Tears of the Kingdom for my original Switch and the cheapest I can find in my area is $40.
The market is destroyed by chips and silicon prices. Everything is getting price adjusted. Consoles, PCs, laptops, etc. Steam deck was affordable until it couldn't be. Nothing valve can do about that
Techbros pretending they are "a gamer" but what they really mean is sociopaths.
They are just rich scalpers, if they were poor they'd be emptying Pokemon machines at Walmart all day.
To the extent we are not already within it, this is a flashing indicator light about a future second video game industry crash. I was a baby in the aftermath of the first one, it’ll be interesting to live through.
That counts as an industry crash. You still get to play games but more tens of thousands of employees who need to pay their mortgage are unemployed and 90% of your favorite franchises go on hiatus.
Yeah it’s outdated which would be fine if the price was still low and they were doing sales again. This happens with all aging technology. The absolutely necessary price increase just accelerated that
not surprising. The allure of the Steam Deck was that it was a cheap but capable handheld for indie games, its large community, and the capacity to barely play AAA games if you wanted to. But with the price hike, the Deck is no longer worth it. It's too expensive for a seriously outdated hardware. You could spend a few hundred more and get infinitely better handheld, which are all also insane expensive. The handheld market itself has crashed as a result.
I don't think that Valve really made much money on the Steam Deck, if any. They've always been about having yet another way to consumer more content from Steam, which is where the big bucks are made. They've sold about 5 million Steam Decks worldwide, but more importantly the release of the Steam Deck took the handheld gaming segment from niche to mainstream and led to the launch of many competitors from Lenovo, Asus, MSI, and others. Sure, Ayaneo and other players were there first for years but in much smaller numbers and at much higher prices. In the end though, they're all driving more Steam revenue.
It's the same with the Steam Machine. They don't care that you can build a more performant solution in a slightly larger form factor for the same money or less. They don't care if it's running Bazzite or CachyOS instead of SteamOS. What they care about is that you have another way of consuming content that they provide.
I can see the industry's response to the manufactured memory chip crisis... subscribe to our game streaming service! Then the stupid streaming services war to capture the market by pricing themselves at a loss by using venture capital to wipe their competitors. And a few years later after ONE company has done so and holds the market hostage, the steady enshitification and price hikes... we've seen all this before. What a bright future we have to look forward to.
I'd be more likely to buy into your conspiracy theory if anyone was investing in advertising game streaming.
It's an afterthought for the few companies that offer it at all. It's certainly not the focus of a concerted marketing push capitalizing on hardware prices.
Besides, these companies don't want you wasting valuable server hardware on games. They want that hardware for AI.
Most of these companies aren’t even based in the US. Effective regulation would require cooperation from the countries those manufacturers are based in which is highly unlikely.
I feel for them - they know that the price makes the deck extremely unattractive but it's almost entirely out of their control unless they want to sell at a loss.
I love SBCgaming and was really stoked to snag a steamdeck - but I pushed it off for a while. They'll still be there, right?
Wellll...... here we are. Can I afford to buy one? Yes. Can I justify it, knowing the cost is purely driven by AI fucking up the industry? No, no I can't.
Maybe one day, but for now my little old handhelds + moonlight will have to suffice
Good. The past few years the first time since I've been born I've ever seen stuff that's multiple years ol at this point go up in price, I don't care if it's because of all this AI bullshit. The tech industries done this to itself and you're now going to see people making all of their stuff last as opposed to buying new things just for the sake of it
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