r/okbuddycinephile 7h ago

A historically accurate adaptation of 'The Odyssey'

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4.4k Upvotes

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213

u/Substantial-Ad2200 6h ago

“Historically accurate depiction of an ancient fantasy story.”

84

u/Iluvatar-Great 6h ago

Oh no, you don't understand. They don't care about realism, they just don't like black people.

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u/Substantial-Ad2200 6h ago

I understand that. 

-4

u/Financial-Leader3475 6h ago

No, we don’t like WASPs playing Greeks.

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u/Royal_Annek 5h ago

Lmao yeah the backlash has been because it was too white

-1

u/Financial-Leader3475 5h ago

Unironically is my issue with the movie

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u/Royal_Annek 5h ago

Then why'd you say we, are you a colony of ants

-3

u/Financial-Leader3475 5h ago

We as in the people who actually have heard of the Odyssey before dumb Americans have

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u/Royal_Annek 5h ago

K so you know full well who the "they" in the comment you replied to was about and responded "no" anyways? Why clowning

-2

u/Financial-Leader3475 5h ago

And you know full well that generalizing with “they” is stupid.

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u/Royal_Annek 5h ago

No I don't, because that would require totally ignoring the context of the post we're in

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u/cheeze2005 3h ago

Little known indie gem “the odyssey” 

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

For the typical American, yes, clearly.

Greeks are not WASPs.

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u/cheeze2005 2h ago

Do you ever get tired of how you are?

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u/eggsalter 5h ago

Agreed. Why are there anything but Mediterraneans there.

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u/Financial-Leader3475 5h ago

I don’t know but a vast majority of people are completely fine with White anglo-saxons constantly pretending to be Mediterranean. Just make Viking movies if they want old stories.

4

u/fartdarling 5h ago

Yeah it's gonna be 128 minutes of a man writing and then it ends

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u/TheNortalf 4h ago

This is so stupid take. You're basically saying you're ok with ancient greeks with AK-74 only because there's a cyclop in the story. 

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u/Substantial-Ad2200 4h ago

I didn’t say that. But it’s a good point. Where do you draw the line on “historical accuracy”? None of it happened. So to pick apart some parts of this version because “not historically accurate” is silly versus at the end of the day none of this story happened. So you can dress them exactly like Greek dressed then and make them speak Ancient Greek and cast modern(?) Greek actors or use grok ai or whatever and then what? That somehow makes it a better movie? 

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u/RockyRoady2 4h ago

There is no “line” to draw. It’s only about being faithful to the source material, the source material states the time period so it’s best to make something that respresants said period

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u/SordidDreams 3h ago edited 1h ago

Where do you draw the line on “historical accuracy”? None of it happened.

Between "story" and "setting". The characters and events are fictional, but the story is still set in a real place and in a real period of history, so they would've used real historical clothing, armor, weapons, ships, and so on. Seeing supposed ancient Greeks sailing around in viking longships and wearing costumes that look like they came straight out of Game of Thrones or Rings of Power or whatever just makes me sad. Imagine if they made, say, a Robin Hood movie and had the knights wear Roman legionary armor. Would that be okay because "none of it happened"?

That somehow makes it a better movie?

Unironically yes. There's a great video about Robert Eggers and his work on The Witch, specifically about his obsessive attention to detail and historical accuracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qdP7lr8kI4

In interviews, Eggers makes the point that getting the mundane details right makes the supernatural elements more believable too.

1

u/whatsbobgonnado Neil breens #1 fan 1h ago

they made romeo and juliet with gunfights. if ancient greeks had ak-74[sic] it would probably be a deliberate artistic choice by the filmmaker and would be judged differently than the historical accuracy 

3

u/LizLemonOfTroy 5h ago

It's an epic fantasy set within a known historical time period. It's not a fantasy setting, just an ancient one.

That doesn't mean it can't be accurate to what is known of the period, and just because it features mythological creatures doesn't mean it wouldn't be jarring if Odysseus used an iPhone.

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u/Mutant_Llama1 4h ago

It's a synthesis of hundreds of earlier stories from a broad, poorly documented period of ancient greece.

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u/LizLemonOfTroy 4h ago edited 3h ago

Poorly but not undocumented.

People are speaking as if it's set in a fantasy land rather than a real place that really existed.

2

u/eukomos 2h ago

Books 5-12, which have almost all the famous scenes, all take place in fantasy lands. The identification of Scheria with Corfu, the Cyclopes' island with Sicily, etc, are all extremely late add-ons and unrelated to the bronze age origins of the poem.

3

u/RockyRoady2 4h ago

We know that they didn’t have medieval armour in Mycenaean Greece. The same way we know they didn’t have AR-15s in the medieval period

0

u/SordidDreams 3h ago

poorly documented

Maybe it's just me, but I'd say that makes getting the things we do know right even more important, precisely because we know so little.

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u/OneThotOneKill 2h ago

Historical fantasy is still fantasy

3

u/DefaultSubSandwich 3h ago

It's not a fantasy setting, just an ancient one.

That's like saying Harry Potter doesn't take place in a fantasy setting, but rather just a slightly retro one, because it takes place in Scotland. Odysseus literally sails a boat to the Underworld, just as one example.

doesn't mean it wouldn't be jarring if Odysseus used an iPhone.

An iPhone would be out of place in Harry Potter, too... That has nothing to do with it being a fantasy setting or not.

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

Ok then make the entire Harry Potter cast Russian, and set in Siberia. With a full Russian language script.

It was written as having taken place in Scotland, so you would expect to have Anglo-saxons, speaking British English, playing the characters in a film adaptation of Harry Potter.

2

u/DefaultSubSandwich 2h ago

Ok then make the entire Harry Potter cast Russian, and set in Siberia. With a full Russian language script.

Why not? We make American adaptations of foreign works (complete with American actors, American settings, and American-dialect English-language scripts) all the time.

so you would expect to have Anglo-saxons, speaking British English, playing the characters

Sure, and you'd probably expect the same thing of a biography of Alexander Hamilton.

Yet Hamilton is one of the best-received works in the last 20 years. And that's not even based on a fictional or fantastical source material, but literal nonfiction.

0

u/LizLemonOfTroy 3h ago

I mean, yes? Harry Potter doesn't take place in a fantasy setting. It takes place in 1990s Britain with urban fantasy elements. Just because there are witches and wizards doesn't mean, as you yourself note, that it wouldn't be immune to jarring anachronisms.

That's obviously pretty different to, say, Thedas or Tattoine, which are wholly invented.

Likewise, the Odyssey is set in ancient Hellas. That it's also an epic with Hellenic mythology elements doesn't change that. It's not like Hellas didn't actually exist or that we know nothing about it. Ergo, it can be critiqued on that basis.

2

u/DefaultSubSandwich 3h ago

Harry Potter doesn't take place in a fantasy setting.

I cannot agree that Hogwarts is not a fantasy setting.

1

u/LizLemonOfTroy 3h ago

Hogwarts is a fictitious and fantastical place, but the UK - where Hogwarts is based - isn't.

Murder, She Wrote isn't a fantasy setting just because Cabot Cove doesn't actually exist.

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u/DefaultSubSandwich 2h ago

Tatooine is a fictitious and fantastical place, but our universe - where Tatooine is based (and canonically exists) - isn't.

However, it'd be pretty strange and silly to refer to Tatooine as a historical, albeit far far away, setting.

Murder, She Wrote isn't a fantasy setting just because Cabot Cove doesn't actually exist.

It's not a fantasy setting mostly because it's not fantasy. I think you're confusing fiction and fantasy.

0

u/Substantial-Ad2200 5h ago

Looks like you’re getting a grok ai movie with ai actors so I assume it will be spot on accurate. 

https://www.irishstar.com/culture/entertainment/elon-musk-ai-the-odyssey-37463775

5

u/LizLemonOfTroy 4h ago

I didn't ask for this lol.

1

u/Financial-Quail5978 4h ago

Yeah, there are descriptions and many statues of Greek gods, they are always depicted as perfect Greeks, not as Africans.

It’s not about being racist, it’s about realism, how would you feel if there was a movie about African culture and African gods were played by white people?

The historical context of the Odyssey is that people from 2 neighboring villages that were loyal to different rulers would slit each others’ throat. Not a single man in Greece would’ve fought for an African woman.

5

u/Substantial-Ad2200 4h ago

Yeah we’ve never had Egyptian gods played by white people. Good point!

3

u/Financial-Quail5978 4h ago

Egyptians aren’t subsaharans. They’re white (meditteranean)

I haven’t heard of that movie.

Either way, cast people that look historically accurate to the geographic location. Just because someone did that with white actors shouldn’t be an excuse to do it with black actors. It just makes the movie so nonsensical and stupid

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

Ancient Egyptian characters shouldn’t be played by white Anglo-saxons. They should be played by Egyptians/Mediterraneans.

Ancient Greek characters shouldn’t be played by white Anglo-saxons. They should be played by Greeks/Mediterraneans.

2

u/Moggetti 4h ago

Are they? Because it sounds like you’re talking about statuary made centuries later, not statues made at the time. 

2

u/Financial-Quail5978 4h ago

They’ve used written sources to make those statues.

The written sources portray them as idealized greeks.

Also lots of statues and myths developed alongside each other, but yes the most famous ones belong to the classical period which was around 200 years after

1

u/Crispy1961 5h ago

We being silly again?

1

u/Warm-Professional494 2h ago

Need more gay sex between men and little boys to be accurate.

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

That wasn’t part of The Odyssey story.

It was however set in Greece and the Mediterranean.

1

u/Warm-Professional494 2h ago

Odyssey’s story has been changed so much over time most historians being homers version is not what we see today.

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

And yet the setting was clearly Ancient Greece and the Mediterranean, and the characters are clearly Greeks/Mediterranean.

Not White anglo-saxon Vikings.

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u/Mildy_British 6h ago

You don't understand that concept?

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u/Substantial-Ad2200 6h ago

Nope what would that even mean? The odyssey is an old story and didn’t occur. So what would be “historically accurate” about it? You can’t make a “historically accurate” lord of the rings movies or a “historically accurate” Star Wars movie. They didn’t occur. 

2

u/Majkl_94 3h ago

Bruh, are you for real? The Odyssey takes place in real locations accross the Medditerranean. LotR and Star Wars happen in made up places. Apples and Oranges.

-6

u/The_amazing_T 6h ago

I want my sirens and giants and cyclops EXTRA accurate. And everyone rhymes. In ancient Greek.

2

u/Financial-Leader3475 6h ago

Unironically yes

-13

u/Electronic_Key7831 6h ago

You know good and well that if a fantasy story took place in a largely non white area and was portrayed with white actors, libs would be distraught 

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u/IBeatDeathStranding 5h ago

so like every jesus movie ever? lol didnt christian bale play moses like 10 years ago? lmao

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

And that’s an actual issue. Like this whitewashed “Odyssey” movie.

-1

u/Electronic_Key7831 5h ago

Yeah, like every Jesus movie ever. Reddit loves to complain about white Jesus.

7

u/IBeatDeathStranding 5h ago

but not hollywood who did it until the 2010s right?

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u/billiam53 6h ago

A non white area like ancient Greece? Troy is in modern day Turkey.

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u/jimmyrich 6h ago

Yeah, they're all out on the streets right now protesting that Matt Damon isn't Greek.

-5

u/Electronic_Key7831 6h ago

Greeks are white 

13

u/cheeze2005 6h ago

They would not have thought of themselves as such.

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u/Financial-Leader3475 6h ago

Greeks are not Anglo-saxon White. They’re Mediterranean.

There isn’t a single Greek/Mediterranean in that Nolan movie.

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u/Oggie_Doggie 6h ago

Greeks are white NOW. A hundred years ago, they were in the same pot as Southern Italians and Irish (i.e. undesirables).

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 6h ago

And Levantines.

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u/Moggetti 4h ago

Ancient Greeks were not. Because “white” didn’t exist. If you suggested to an Ancient Greek that Matt Damon was like them, they’d laugh at you at best. More likely they’d spit on you for the terrible insult. 

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

Exactly. WASPs playing Greeks (or Jesus and his disciples) is laughable.

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u/Financial-Leader3475 6h ago

But the Odyssey is literally being portrayed by WASPs, not Greeks. That’s the annoying part. The White Brits and Americans shouldn’t be pretending to be Greek.

1

u/cheeze2005 3h ago

Everyone on screen is pretending 

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

Ok Terry Crews as Anne Frank next

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u/Substantial-Ad2200 6h ago

Are they going to speak Ancient Greek?

-3

u/ScipioCoriolanus 6h ago

Probably. And it would be cool as fuck

-3

u/Financial-Leader3475 6h ago

Unironically yes

-5

u/Immediate_Gain_9480 6h ago edited 6h ago

Its possible. There are shows that pulled it off beautifully like Barbarians, where the Romans all spoke classical latin. It would be set in the Myceanian period of Greece. thats when the war with Troy took place.

The Illiad was inspired by real events and set in a real era of time. The events themselves were just fantastical.

The Indiana Jones movies were fantasie but they were still very much set in a historic context and in a specific time.

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u/Substantial-Ad2200 6h ago

Ah yes. What the Trump voters really want is a movie filled with Mediterranean people speaking Latin. As long as kid Rock does the soundtrack it will be a huge hit!

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u/sippingonginnjews 4h ago

You realize Passion of the Christ is in Aramaic and Latin with zero English and was basically a giant hit because of conservatives right? Made over half a billion dollars on a 30 million dollar budget lol

Also why would pre classical Greeks speak Latin?

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u/Substantial-Ad2200 4h ago

Read the rest of the thread. Half the argument is what language they should be speaking. 

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u/sippingonginnjews 4h ago

Yea why would it be Latin lol

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

He thinks Ancient Greeks spoke Latin and wants a White anglo-saxon Odysseus.

1

u/Substantial-Ad2200 4h ago

Yeah but that was about Jesus and they pretend to like Jesus. 

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u/sippingonginnjews 4h ago

The Odyssey is easily one of the most famous stories in western culture

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u/Immediate_Gain_9480 5h ago edited 5h ago

I would just like the Myceanian era culture to be portrayed in a cool way on screen. I dont give a fuck about the casting choices. They are fine.

Greece traded with Ethiopa and Arabia throught the Pharao channel and there is a black women from Ethiopa in the orginal Illiad.

I hate how Musk and Maga made historical authenticity somehow political. I just want to be a fucking history nerd...

-1

u/Financial-Leader3475 6h ago

Why are you adamant on people being Trump voters if they want historical accuracy?

Trump voters do not even know what Greece is.

I want the Odyssey to have Greek/Mediterranean actors.

4

u/IBeatDeathStranding 5h ago

because its only trumpers and conservitards who PRETEND to care about “accuracy”

1

u/Drewbeede 5h ago

I remember all the outrage with casting of O Brother, Where Art Thou.

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 5h ago

No? You think Trumpers care that snow white actors are pretending to be Greeks?

Maybe they care about the Helen of Troy and Achilles casting. But it stops there.

The difference is that they want characters to be WASPs.

I want characters to be Greeks/Mediterranean.

1

u/Substantial-Ad2200 5h ago

Any why is there so much concern about the “accuracy” of this fantasy movie? It’s been adapted multiple times. Or like the story only makes sense if there are Greeks playing Greeks and everyone speaks Latin? It’s got a cyclops in it. Sit back and enjoy. 

2

u/Financial-Leader3475 5h ago

Because it is a Greek story.

Not a White Anglo-saxon Protestant story.

And they would be speaking Ancient Greek, not Latin. I’d even be okay with Modern Greek. Hell, make it in English. Just give me Greek/Mediterranean actors, and at least a substantial amount of Greek dialogue.

1

u/Substantial-Ad2200 5h ago

Because the biggest people complaining about the actors and “accuracy” in this version are upset that Elliott Page and Lupita Nyong’o are in it. No complaints about the accuracy or inaccuracy of the rest of the cishet white cast. It’s very clear what they are upset about. 

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 5h ago

I am not those people.

So stop lumping me and others like me with people who have never heard of the Odyssey before the casting announcement.

We want Greeks playing the characters.

1

u/Greful 6h ago

Set in historic context and historically accurate are two different things.

1

u/RadiantReason2063 6h ago

  were fantasie but they were still very much set in a historic context and in a specific time.

So was Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter

1

u/jimmyrich 6h ago

Yeah but by the time the Odyssey was written down it already had elements of the then-present mixing with elements of the era it's supposed to depict, so there's already a question of "accurate to the text or to the era?"

The idea that "this needs to depict the era accurately" is just as much a concession to modern sensibilities as anything right-wing douchebags are filling their diapers about.

2

u/Immediate_Gain_9480 5h ago

Fair point. I would just have liked too to see Myceanian culture portrayed in a cool way. As we rarely see it. Nolen just made choices he made and its probably a great movie which i am gonna see. O brother were art thou was great too and that was a completetly different adaptation.

1

u/WintersDoomsday 6h ago

What race should the Cyclops be depicted as? White?

1

u/SeaSatisfaction1495 6h ago

Yes. With a monocle.

1

u/BearThatLikesCheese 5h ago

Neither Musk nor the guy requesting this nonsense understand that concept. None of the goobers complaining about Nolan's version understand it.

At the end of the day, they don't care about "historical accuracy;" they want buff white (not Greek) cis, straight men doing "manly things."

1

u/Financial-Leader3475 2h ago

I want Greeks portraying the characters in the Odyssey. And speaking Greek. It would be amazing.