Ive been thinking about this especially after the recent drama about Cortis repeating the same 4 songs multiple times in their tour.

I'm very open to newer sounds and concepts across different gens but I finally figured out why Cortis leaves such a bad taste in my mouth.

The concept is snobby. The songs are alright but the concept is pretentious. They feel like they're trying to be anti-K-pop but it's not clicking. That disconnect is what throws me off.

They remind me of the rich kids in my school who liked to pretend they weren't so that they could relate to everyone.

At least kpop groups know who they are and what they are.

There's this subtle intention of looking down on kpop while still wanting kpop money and kpop devotion.

recently ive seen skz get CRAZY amounts of hate, esp after karma.

everywhere i go, comment, or look, i see atleast one person saying "oh, ofc a stay is saying this" "skz is so corny" "i love all groups except skz and bts"

do people really not realise that skz are PEOPLE??? they arent robots. this is true for pretty much every idol out there.

as a stay, i agree that most of my fandom can be toxic. VERY, in fact. but that gives you no right to hate on skz, because they work hard on cbs as much as every other group, maybe even more since theyre a self composing group.

and then i see people coming on social media bitching about them. if you dont like the music, thats your opinion but cmon atleast dont degrade the group

the worst part is theyve barely even had ANY scandals, except the one bangchan cornrows incident, which he APOLOGISED FOR.

i swear antis need to get a life omg

I feel like with every other music genre, people are pretty understanding of subjective music taste. I don't know what it is but kpop stans (not everyone but a majority) seem to get offended or start being rude once you say you don't like a kpop artist that they like. I like a lot of kpop music, but I also dislike a great amount. I never go around hating on other groups because I don't see the point in it. If someone asks me about a release that I don't like, I will be honest about it, and for some reason this offends people.

I'm not going to say which groups I'm not a fan of because I don't want to deal with that kind of behaviour, but one time I was talking to someone on instagram because we both like ive. She told me another group she likes and asked for my opinion so I told her their music wasn't for me. I also like aespa and she immediately started insulting them and saying I don't know anything about music because I like aespa instead of the group she likes.

This is just one instance but I have also noticed under the comments of these kpop confession accounts, people will say they don't like a group's music and their fans will jump them in the replies. I thought maybe people only act like this on the internet but I've ran into people at cupsleeve events before who have told me that not liking the same groups as them means you are "tasteless" and I've heard name calling as well.

I like discussing music and analyzing albums, but I feel like this is nearly impossible to do in the kpop space. Most people only want to hear praise about their favourite groups, and if you have criticism they interpret it as hate and attack you. Is there a reason for this? I've seen this happening since I got into kpop and it doesn't look like it'll go away any time soon.

Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion, so please don’t attack me for it. I’m open to people having different opinions, but there’s no need to be disrespectful.

I feel like a lot of K-pop fandoms are constantly hating on Blinks and dragging them into situations they had nothing to do with. It’s always “Blinks this, Blinks that,” even when most of them haven’t said or done anything. And when they do speak up, it’s often because they’re defending Blackpink against the things people constantly say about them.

I also feel like people drag Jennie way too much. People constantly bring up the same three clips of her supposedly being “lazy” while conveniently ignoring the countless times she has given her absolute best on stage. It feels like people have already created a narrative about her and refuse to acknowledge anything that contradicts it. If you’re going to criticise someone, at least be fair and acknowledge the full picture instead of constantly recycling the same clips to push the same narrative.

I also find it hypocritical when ARMYs make fun of Blinks or claim that Blackpink hasn’t had an impact on K-pop. I personally believe that both BTS and Blackpink have had a massive impact on K-pop, just in different ways. One group’s success does not erase the other group’s achievements. Blackpink has undeniably made a huge impact, especially as women in the industry, and I don’t understand why people feel the need to deny that.

I also personally feel like Blackpink is bigger as soloists than BTS members are. Before anyone comes for me, I’m not talking about streams, sales, or numbers. I’m talking about general public recognition and cultural impact. I constantly see Blackpink members being mentioned by non-K-pop fans, and their solo music seems to go viral and reach people who don’t even listen to K-pop. That is just my personal observation, and I understand that people may see it differently.

At the end of the day, both BTS and Blackpink have achieved incredible things. You don’t have to diminish one group to praise the other. Both groups can be successful, influential and important to K-pop in their own ways.

And this applies to every K-pop fandom: every fandom has a toxic side. No fandom is completely innocent, and I think people need to accept that instead of constantly acting like their own fandom is somehow above everyone else. Blinks have toxic fans. ARMYs have toxic fans. Every single K-pop fandom has toxic fans.

The actions of a few people should not automatically represent an entire fandom, but at the same time, people need to stop pretending that toxicity only exists in other fandoms. We can call out toxic behaviour without turning every conversation into a fanwar.

At the end of the day, you can support your favourite group without constantly attacking another one. You can acknowledge Blackpink’s impact without denying BTS’s achievements, and you can acknowledge BTS’s impact without denying Blackpink’s. There is enough room for both groups to be successful.

This is perhaps a more general or common rant I'm about to share but I feel like it should be discussed.

I currently feel like too much information about artists is out there, and it's not necessarily strictly K-pop, but can be generalised to most public figures, but I feel like it's more obvious/prominent within K-pop. Some information that is publicly available isn't inherently bad/unnecessary however, the desire to know and recall facts is a bit worrying. I know that many fans, especially those on this subreddit for example recognise this and disregard its supposed significance.

For example on websites or pages you can find information such as their blood type, family, sometimes weight, and school which some are relatively normal, but the fact that they are displayed in collated pages makes it seems like it's necessary to know or learn such facts about your favourite idols or you seem to not really like them.

If you believe information, such as this is viable to be publicly available then we should look at how people engage or interact with say their Ult bias. For example, my Ult bias is Leeseo of IVE and I very much like her as a person and as an artist. However, we have to recognise that what we see of their personality or humour comes from things such as YouTube content, interviews, clipped moments of them. I don't care about where she was born, the school she went to, what she did at school, or her family. Yes, I don't know her personally, but I still 'care' for her and it serves me no purpose in knowing this information about her, in the same way as it would serve no purpose in knowing the information of a fan. If you think of it like that, we are technically the same person in that regard, it's just that her information is publicly available and accessible, it doesn't mean we should know it and especially knowing it doesn't prove how much you like/know someone.

In addition, you can have a favourite public figure such as me with Leeseo, where you enjoy their on screen personality as well as their music, vocals, performances etc and you can have a favourite artist where you enjoy their music, vocals and performances without knowing 'fun facts' or their education or family for example. You can also go too far where someone you don't know becomes a favourite person, which suggests you both know each other and the details about each other, including off screen. Knowing some stuff doesn't make you inherently weird or bad, but there is a line where enough information is enough and I feel the industry continuously and purposefully blurs that line which can perhaps make it hard for some people to understand that they have perhaps crossed it.

I obviously cannot speak for the artists themselves and how they feel, but I can discuss my view on it and perhaps hear your thoughts on this if you have any.

People are ignoring kpop on purpose. I know this is not new, but I just experienced it first hand.

BTS are co-headlining the FIFA Worldcup final with Madonna, Shakira and Justin Bieber, right? And just for the record Justin Bieber was added later than the rest, right?

My parents were watching sports news on the tv and the people who were discussing the fifa final mentioned the halftime show. I was expecting them to mention BTS so I started paying attention.

"The halftime show will be co-headlined by Madonna, Shakira and Justin Bieber, amongst others."

Are you seriously joking right now because WHAT do you mean you couldn't mention ONE more name?? It literally easier to say 'BTS' than 'amongst others'.

Today I watched the final. And the exact same thing happened when they were talking during the time it took to set up for the halftime performance, seconds before BTS were to perform. (I live in sweden and they talk in swedish over the english speaking dude and there is also a group that has discussions during breaks)

If it is racist or just general disrespect towards kpop I don't know. Bur either way it is insanly disrespectful. There is no reason not to mention them, and it makes me sad, not only as a BTS fan, but also as a kpop fan, to see this neglectfullness, and I can't be the only one.

Edit:

I'm getting more answers than I thought and I feel like I have to clarify that the problem (I think) is not that they are not mentioning BTS. The problem is that they are mentioning every other co-headlining artist except for BTS. Why are they mentioning 3 out of 4 of the headlining artists? That's not "lets only choose the most famous ones" that's "let's leave out the one that we don't think people like" Yes, Shakira, Justin Bieber and Madonna are bigger over here BUT it doesn't justify the fact that they failed to even mention BTS, even though it only made sense for them to do so.

Seriously can yg stop giving them such revealing outfits, like does he even know people are sexualizing them and its really sad to see as a monstiez. Yg also has to stop giving some members higher heels just to balance the members height differences, its only restricting the members from moving freely and its super uncomfortable. And also, about chiquita's choreo for her solo stage, worth it. I mean yes, im really proud to see her so confident and she looks like she is having fun but.... still like why does yg have to have her stage starting with red light, and also why is the dance also sort of sexualizing, like why..... Like based on the other member's solo stages, it shows that yg is capable of doing well. Lastly, i wanna talk about asa, like seriously its so obv that she does not get to choose whether to be center or what, so people geniunely have to stop fussing about who's the center or whatever.

Rami gws!

This is my first time posting on Reddit, and honestly, this is just a rant because I’m tired of seeing people twist words whenever it comes to EVAN/Lee Heeseung. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I know not everyone supports him, and that’s completely fine and separate from what I’m talking about here. I personally support him in this new chapter of his career, but this post isn’t about whether people should like him or not. It’s about repeatedly taking things out of context and creating narratives that don’t reflect what was actually said.

People watched the debut documentary and only heard what they wanted to hear. The documentary is about his solo debut, how the two songs he presented on his single album came to be, the creative process behind them, and the story he wanted to tell. Yet people took one sentence—“we have to convince people”—and immediately built their own interpretation around it while ignoring everything that was said before and after that line.

They explained exactly what they meant in the same segment. They said they needed to convince the public why Lee Heeseung went solo. Their exact words were: “What we have to show with this digital single, the goal we have to reach, is convincing people why Lee Heeseung went solo.” They then continued by explaining that the message was “I want to tell my story,” “my own story,” and that people needed to understand and be convinced of that message.

To me, the meaning is straightforward. They weren’t talking about inventing a reason or creating a false narrative. They were talking about communicating the purpose of his solo debut through the music and helping the public understand why he chose to tell his own story this way. You don’t have to like the company, but if you’re going to criticize something, at least criticize what was actually said instead of one isolated sentence. Taking a single quote out of context while ignoring the explanation that immediately follows only fuels the misinformation that continues to be spread.

(crossposted) I'd like to preface this post by saying that reading this is completely optional, and at the end of the day, my opinion is just that. Mine. (and NO, I did not use ai for this… nor would I use it for anything, ever. This optional, long-ahh rambling you're reading right now is straight from the dome, and has always been. Plus some complicated topics can't be shortened for fear of lacking nuance later on.)

The same way I’d like to hope that others will assume that I interact and read/engage with their varying viewpoints with good faith and agree to disagree + walk away respectfully if it doesn’t gel with them, I’d like to hope people will act the same for mine…

It IS the internet, though… so there’s never any guarantee.

But since my thoughts over these past months were too long to fit into other formats, my hope is that discussing things here might give some clarity on where I stand, as a person first and foremost, and then as a lifelong, predebut to concurrent fan of Enhypen, and now, including Evan.

For one, I do not, and have not, for any celebs/musicians I have been a fan of throughout my life, ever placed much importance in the specific group identity, over the actual people/humans, within said group. Mainly because I understand that, as a creative myself, there are several truths I hold within myself at once:

- that I love creating, and collaborating with people

- that what I create with others matters ALSO due to THEIR contributions, not just my own

- but that the world does not revolve around me, life is unpredictable, and change is not a thing to be feared

- and as long as those people live, and I'm still around, there’s always another opportunity to collab w them again.

Now, I'm only explaining this to give an idea of how MY own mindset works in calming me down when it comes to myself, but bear in mind, I am aware that this applies for my own situation, and will not always be a one-to-one copy when it comes to others.

[btw, if for some reason, while reading this, you feel slighted, or called out… rip, I genuinely cannot help you with that, but I do hope people understand that if I sound frustrated at any point, I'm not targeting any specific person, but rather toxic behaviors I've observed over time. Good? ok.]

2nd, I am of the mindset that as a fan/consumer, if for any reason, justified or not, reasonable or not, you do not agree with the output, and would like to withdraw/withhold your financial support, and even your personal engagement indefinitely, you are well within your rights to do so, and no one can tell you otherwise — Besides, music and merch is a luxury, not a life necessity, so how you save/spend your money, as long as it is not illegal or malicious, is your personal discretion. This is not an opinion I will EVER budge on.

HOWEVER.

I do believe there is a difference between a fair boycott movement, and mass, blatant entitlement brought about by parasocial emotions/delusions gone wildly unchecked,

and I do not think enough people within the boycott movement have been mature enough, or willing to call out inappropriate behavior and unverified conspiracies from their own side, if they’ve even bothered/tried at all, either because, (and I'm trying to be as understanding as possible here) for one or multiple of the following reasons:

- fear of their love/support of the members being questioned

- overwhelmingly reactionary bandwagon mentality (in kpop?? fork found in kitchen, rip)

- a genuine unwillingness to accept reality, however inconvenient or unpretty it is, as it breaks the immersion that they, THE fans, do not know their idols as well as they think they do,

- some convoluted, misguided wish to be the saviors/knights in shining armor for their idols, at any cost, regardless of whether it crosses a personal boundary for said idols or not,

- hypocrisy in wanting be THE ONLY ONES to dictate how the members should react/act/behave, ironically, in place of the management — in other words, both the company AND the fans are trying to compress the members into mere products to be ordered around, regardless of how nicely or how well it’s worded, a.k.a,

“my words as a fan trumps the company and even yours as an idol because I'm the one that funds your career, but because I say this with what I believe is love, I should be the one to get to tell you how things should be”,

- the sunken-cost fallacy, a.k.a. they DO recognize a large group within the movement is acting rashly or even in bad faith, but do not want to call it out in case they drive said rabid fans away, thus, in their eyes, weakening the cause due to a lack of numbers

- Whataboutism, where-in they believe it’s A-okay to behave badly and not reflect or keep their own behaviors in check, with the excuse that other fans or whoever else ALSO behave badly.

The last point is the one I've noticed pop up most often, and is, quite frankly, the weakest argument I've seen people use thus far.

Now, while I understand no matter how nuanced I get, there will always be at least (1) person reading this and feeling the knee-jerk reaction to jump up and deflect, or to immediately pivot to how toxic other fans/the company are, or how people should allow them to act as they wish because their hurt feelings gives them the right to act the same way,

and for such people, I'm aware that asking them to take responsibility for their OWN actions will be like trying to pull an ox’s tail back through its ears, so I'm not even gonna bother.

but hopefully, for the rational ones reading this, I hope something clicks for all of us.

Also — while you'll have to take my word for it,

very openly, especially elsewhere away from this website, I've, numerous times, demonstrated zero love for the company, and by that, I mean the ones handling the big decisions, the ones far removed from the creative process. The ones who only look at the bottom line, and nothing else. (small staff like hair/makeup/music team that have no jurisdiction or sway over this decision, I will exclude, and I hope rational people reading can tell the difference too).

No doubt that the entire situation was incredibly ill-timed,

and even, EVEN, if one day, by some miniscule chance, some super long, unedited cctv footage shows us that there was no ill will between members or between them and the company, and the whole thing was amicable and planned (lmao, highly doubt that) and simply received poorly by fans,

I am still holding the company at full responsibility for influencing, in some part, be it subconscious or not, Hee’s decision to part from enha early, likely to avoid overwork from the upcoming tour + gain some semblance of creative freedom, etc., etc.

But at the end of the day, I do not, as of the date of posting, know everything that happened behind closed doors, and will not pretend to know. If enha and Hee are willing to share it with us one day, I will take their word for it, but only their words, and no one else’s.

I think that’s fair.

I know some fans believe they’re entitled to a full explanation, (personally, I do not share that opinion. Some creative/professional decisions should DEF be between the respective parties only, but that’s just me),

but quite frankly, given the current behavior of the toxic sides of the fandom and its track record, I cannot say that I have any trust left that those same people will have the depth of maturity to accept anything less that what they’ve already decided is the narrative that they want to go with.

For all the talk of wanting enha to have more autonomy over the company (which they should), the fandom has repeatedly, openly, PROUDLY, infantilized them and treated them as if the members aren’t also grown men in their own right, with the right to CHOOSE to use their own resources and soft power, and more importantly, their own voices.

Yes, yes, they will receive backlash if they speak out.

Absolutely there will be naysayers no matter what, but that’s exactly it. Either way, no matter how you fold it, only they know what they feel, and what they want to do. And clearly they’ve each had a longstanding precedent of speaking their minds, even at the very real possibility of losing support. So even if it comes to light that they have chosen to not speak out for professional reasons only, again, that is still THEIR choice.

Denying and refusing to acknowledge/accept this, especially after all these months, is unfair to them.

There is a lot of tribalism, and dare I say, cult-like behavior, within fandoms, not just kpop, that I am not willing to bow down to, and this is no exception.

Regardless of how messy and rushed the handling of the situation by the company was, regardless of whether the members had a falling out or not, or if it was amicable or not, it does not give ANY of us the right to dictate what the members should do/say, just to please us.

Disrespecting their explicit wishes, speaking over them, and spreading misinformation about how they actually feel and downplaying their instructions by saying it must be “spoon-fed lines” to fit into your narratives, despite them repeatedly telling the fans not to, is EXACTLY why Jungwon called that sort of behavior disruptive, and unwanted in the fandom. There is nothing anyone can say to justify that sort of unwarranted behavior.

Likewise, I will NOT defend, or tolerate, anyone judging HS for getting/pursuing a solo career. However it happened, him wanting creative freedom, in and of itself, is not something to find fault in, imo.

Delusional akgaes rejoicing and putting down the 6 remaining members, or salty fans calling him selfish can [redacted]--- I digress. However it happened, whether there could’ve been a better way or not, whether it should’ve been within enha or not, whether it should’ve happened after contract renewals or not, as a fan, anyone can speculate and cast blame,

but I do not pretend to have control over what has already happened, as I cannot turn back time.

What I can do in the present, is control how I behave, and try to understand the members, w/o adding on to anything they HAVEN’T said yet.

No doubt, all the members, and Hee/Evan, must have their own complicated feelings on the matter.

But they’re GROWN MEN. Adults. They know each other better than any of us fans ever will, so I trust that they can handle their personal + work relationships/connections behind closed doors, and I do not,

let me repeat,

I DO NOT NEED THEM to perform camaraderie for me on a screen, just so I feel better. Like, who the heck am I, they don’t owe me anything--

It’s not that I don’t have any standards or expectations for the people I look up to. Sure, I expect them to be sincere, to produce music and pursue their dreams and passions with integrity, and perhaps I'd like it if they happen to be kind and decent people at heart,

but even then, they don’t owe me that either.

and if they should fall short of my expectations one day, or if I, for some reason, believe they are not worth rooting for,

I would just quietly leave the fandom and turn my attentions elsewhere. That, I have a right to.

But shamelessly putting words in their mouths, loudly creating and pushing false narratives that you cannot verify the sources of, and uploading posts of ripping and destroying merch in retaliation to, god forbid, a member rightfully drawing his boundaries explicitly, and speaking up for his group…

Is genuinely mentally disturbing, and whoever engages in, or enables this behavior, even passively, especially among your own peers — you too, carry the burden of causing REAL, DOCUMENTED, distress to the members. Lack of fandom etiquette is an understatement.

On that note, I have two co-relating points on this matter.

I’ve seen people accusing people from outside the fandom of speaking up, and resorting to labelling all, like literally, ALL of them, as antis… and I find that sort of thinking incredibly reductive and narrow-minded.

You cannot expect for a fandom this massive, in which a large part is currently having a very open, disruptive and immature meltdown in public, to not spill over and disrupt other people’s spaces, or cause concern.

It goes without saying — OF COURSE antis will take opportunity to ride on the coattails of any drama that unfolds,

but to hide behind that excuse, and pretend that everyone who isn’t automatically under the Engene label, is an evil monolith, and not humans first, with their own differing opinions and nuances, sometimes objective, sometimes subjective, biased or unbiased, based on the individual’s own thoughts,

is EXACTLY why I say this sort of cult mindset is immature and reductive.

The same way WE ourselves, personally don’t like to be perceived as a monolith, or be judged for the bad apples in our community, it doesn’t hurt to not throwaway the opinions of others willy-nilly.

To do so, is giving the energy of a salty housewife disregarding an entire neighborhood's real concerns of the snakes in her own yard, simply because a couple of bad neighbors in the past kicked dirt into her lawn. Kicking dirt is bad regardless, but the threats of snakes is still real, and ignoring said concerns out of spite or pride only gets your own ankles bitten in the process.

And to my last point,

this is more of a personal gripe, seeing as how I've been involved in boycotts for other things (won't name them here since it's unrelated to kpop) but of a more severe reality,

The one thing that all lasting boycotts have in common, especially ones that seem the most justified, is that the victims/individuals involved themselves have requested, or petitioned for said boycott, in their own words.

In the nicest way I can say it, it is THEIR voices first, that give credence, and real power and movement, towards said cause, and that is because, you cannot, and SHOULD not, speak over the victims/people involved first, no matter how much you want to. No matter how righteous you think your cause is, this step is unskippable.

Even in situations where those individuals are actively silenced, the people directly involved with them speak on their behalf, aka family, etc., countrymen, etc., WITH, i repeat, EXPLICIT PERMISSION FROM SAID PEOPLE INVOLVED DIRECTLY FIRST. These practices are well-documented, and their voices and words are always on the forefront of the movement, as it should be.

True, people have organized boycotts for far less, and certainly, my opinion will not sway most.

But I find it incredibly dystopian and dehumanizing/inhumane that the very movement claiming, in the fan’s own words, to champion the rights of the idols they love, would rather allow a massive chunk of their followers to fall into mass delusion and whataboutism to flatten/misconstrue their idol's genuine requests,

than openly admit that not a SINGLE member of the current lineup of Enhypen, or Hee/Evan, so far, has ever asked for, or expressed that they wanted this movement in the first place,

and in the event that the members should snap one more time,

or god forbid, explicitly say that this movement is the actual cause of their pain and stress,

I do not know how any of you will be able to cope, or come to terms with the things you’ve enabled in their name.

For all the talk of trying to correct the mistreatment of the company, which I do agree exists,

The real reason most fans (I said most, so don’t pretend I said all) are doing any of this, if you guys are actually honest with yourselves, whether you dare admit it out loud or not, is overwhelmingly, to bring Hee/Evan back into the group above all else,

and even THAT, is for your own sake.

Whether Hee/Evan wants to anymore or not, whether staying in the group long-term is what is what any of them wants now, whether any of them have moved on or are content with being at peace, comes secondary to your own satisfaction,

and THAT, to me, is the real tragedy here.

And the reason I know most are not being forthright, and don't actually give two hecks what the members actually want, is because of the willy-nilly reasons I've seen people fling around other causes to boycott,

I will not name the real-world crisis in question because even mentioning it in here next to kpop is disrespectful to the actual victims, but let’s be honest, a majority of the fandom did not give a flying [redacted] to boycott that all these years, (while I have, btw, so don’t even try me),

but only now?? that YOUR emotions are affected, now you pretend to care about other causes?? Sick, actually sick in the head, some of you.

At this point, some may think I'm less harsh on the “antis/fake fans who claim to be ot6” and “solo stans/haters” compared to boycotters — FYI, I DO despise these sorts too. To be accurate, though, in my eyes, there’s IS a difference, because those sorts of people are so openly hostile to the member that left, or the ones remaining, that it is child’s play, to call them out. Anyone and their mother can see through them, and at any rate, they don’t try to hide it much either.

Addressing open hostility will always be more straightforward.

But the insidious nature of full-send white knighting REAL people while completely trampling over their explicit wishes in the same breath, on such a massive scale and over months, is something I don’t see enough people calling out, or even daring to address head-on in the first place. Up until very recently, I will give you that — but never from within the house it spawned from. Nevermind the toxic results of such behavior escalating to become completely parasocial and out of touch over time, it is genuinely concerning, how rampant and normalized that sort of unhealthy thinking is.

Yes, the company, and the industry at large, is to blame for bringing about and encouraging/feeding the monster, that is the parasocial dynamic of fans. I do understand that most of us found a safe space in the group, so have I. It is normal to feel lost, or helpless, in realizing, that as mere fans, we will not always have full control over every situation. C'est la vie, eh?

But we, as individuals, and I'm including myself here, have OUR own responsibility, to hold ourselves accountable for our own actions, and until that happens, a repeat of this negative feedback loop is bound to occur again.

No matter how good our intentions are, no matter how pure we believe our love and support is for the members, if our actions turn toxic and harm said members, hiding behind our justifications will not mitigate the real-life cost of that. The illusion of an anonymous digital barrier does not truly exist, our careless/entitled words and actions do not exist in a separate bubble,

the members can and HAVE been exposed to it, and when they tell you directly MULTIPLE TIMES that it’s harming them and they want you to stop,

and you consciously ignore it anyway… You cannot be surprised if those same idols no longer consider you a real fan.

tl;dr: i cannot, and do not, wish to control people who want to boycott, and therefore can only hope those that do are sincere and respectful, but imma be honest, most of you do NOT deserve to be waving around that label and watering its significance down when your own hearts and intentions have been left unchecked, and i do not care to sugarcoat it when any of u, for any reason (idc what faction ur under, applies to all), act like untrained 5-year olds who can’t hold a lick of nuance or responsibility for your own actions in this mess. And none of you can use the excuse that I'm not seeing things fairly, when your behaviors have only escalated in immaturity each month since. Even if I wanted to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, and i really do/have done, yall are giving me NOTHING to work with.

I am just a passionate, unspecial, run-of-the-mill fan of HS/Evan, Jay, Jake, Sunghoon, Sunoo, Jungwon and Ni-ki, no better than anyone, and if these people call me an Engene and an Ever, I'm more than happy to accept those labels, and act accordingly.

If the entire fandom decides to implode over ot6/ot7 nonsense, that is on you guys for losing the plot, and I genuinely hope all of you get help soon, and touch some grass. Not even as a gotcha, when I say "get a life outside of idols for your own sakes", genuinely, I'm being deadass.

// As for the sane ones reading this, I'm so proud of you guys for hanging in there, this fandom is truly not for the weak, but I'm glad you guys have stuck around, and I'm so glad enha + Evan have us to support them and vice versa. I'm not normally this harsh w my words, but they are DEF not aimed at you, trust. For the real fans, luv and appreciate you all, thru and thru. Additionally, as of this posting, I remain very proud and fond of the people I've stanned, and I hope to keep following and supporting all their careers indefinitely :3

/// even if you're not part of the fandom, and just poppin' in to read this all this way, as long as discussions aren't in bad faith, I'm glad ur around too. never hurts to get external perspectives :>

I don’t understand people like having essays on TikTok about like how if your’e older than 20 and you like kpop your’e embarrassing…bitch what? It’s a genre. Sure I agree that you may not engage in stan twitter or stan TikTok as much as you get older but like your twenties when you finally have adult money is to attend as many concerts as you can in my opinion

I mean if your’e like 23 and you think your’e too old for a genre of music…um okay I guess but why are you bashing others

I mean I don’t even have official merch from anyone I literally bought dupe merch shirts off Amazon and got myself customized keychains off Etsy and I still like the music

I just don’t understand the age shaming.

Edit: IM 21! And I made this post because I saw other 20 year olds make those comments!!!

Hi! I'm new here lol, but I wanted to talk about something I've been seeing a lot lately as a fan.

What do y'all think about ppl waiting for the guys outside their hotels? Personally, I just don't get it. It feels so disrespectful that some "fans" think it's okay to stalk them just to get a few seconds of attention.

I've never understood why anyone would follow them around like that. If they're in the middle of a tour, shouldn't we be letting them rest instead of making things even more stressful?

The excuse I see all the time is, "They're famous, it's part of the job." But... no? They're still human, right? They deserve privacy and basic respect just like everyone else.

Idk, maybe it's just me, but I don't think being a fan should ever mean invading someone's personal space.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense lol, I'm still getting used to posting here.

I am really frustrated right now because I feel like ghost9 is not doing anything. I know prince is basically holding the group together (because everyone knows him as that one dude that exposes the kpop industry) Yes junhung has a new song and woojin has acted in a bl series. But I feel like they don't have much as group and better off as soloists. I haven't seen a song since 2024 and I know they (the company) are broke but it's been TWO YEARS. They should have enough money to have made one song . I just wanted to give my two cents on this so tell me what you think

I'll make this short but Kpop music is REALLY REALLY underwhelming now (compared to other music genres). I think the last gen to make non-underwhelming music was 2nd, early 3rd if I'm being generous

I've seen lots of ppl compare kpop to Jpop,and I can tell you that Jpop is a lot better (I'm not glazing Jpop just saying)

Even groups I thought made really good music, now sound mid

Though music is subjective,and I know not every song is supposed to have you gagged

I'll be very honest, I am not a die hard BTS fan. Although have listened to them often since 2018, I wouldn't call myself a die hard fan or anything of the sort. A thing that I have seen overtime is that all the BTS criticism is just character assassination and just picking out on their looks mostly. I really don't get the hate because I feel like many of their songs like "Peid piper" or "Blood, sweat and tears" have strong vocals and good rap. I also feel like they are comparatively unproblematic and quite chill. I really crave for honest and neutral criticism and reviews rather than just blatant hate. I really wanna know if they are actually unproblematic or am I just not too deep in the fandom to know it but when I try to research about it the only thing I see is open character assassination and extreme hate rather than actually criticizing them with proof. I really don't want to go on and "stan" problematic artists so I like to do a bit of a background check about the artists I like so that I don't accidentally support problematic artists and defend them without any logic or any strong points. I would love to know if they are genuinely good as human beings (including being good artists). What's your thought about it and can any die hard armies educate me about them being neutral? Would love to be educated in this topic rather than blindly hating or blindly following.

This rant sort of stems from my opinion of Rude! by Hearts2Hearts. I'll get that part out of the way first as it contains the same problem I discuss overall. I feel like that statement of Rude! being overrated is unpopular but I genuinely think it is and stems from Stella's part going viral all over social media. I think multiple other songs by hearts2hearts deserve as much attention as Rude! did but today's method prioritises creating songs that fit with short-form platforms and the ability to go viral. Hearts2Hearts is my 2nd favourite group, so I have nothing against the song or the group, I just wish the hype was around the song rather than one specific part of it.

It's becoming increasingly common to see this in a multitude of songs released recently and I feel like it reduces the quality of the songs if they are focusing on certain parts and making them fit a specific form rather than the overall song, and making it good outside of these contexts. It does give the song and group attention, but I think it is just temporary attention that doesn't carry real weight in the long term. There are songs that are so good, but probably go under the radar due to them not fitting the short-form format.

Hi everyone!

As you might know - or not - we have decided to allow you guys to rant about what's happening on social media every Tuesday. Anything happening on X/Twitter, Instagram, Tik-Tok, YouTube, Bluesky, Threads, or any other social media platform, rant away about it in here.

NOW, here are the things you CANNOT do:

• Add or mention usernames.
• Add direct links to the posts you're complaining about BUT you can copy/paste or paraphrase.
• Witch-hunting because you disagree with A, B, C.

Any rule-breaking - whether that be being hostile or hateful about any idol or user, or directly linking to posts, profiles, or individuals within the megathread - will get you a 21 day ban (this also includes back and forth arguments).

• That means no linking to or mentioning any individual X/Twitter profiles, Youtube channels, Instagram pages, Tik Tok accounts, and/or others. After this period, any further rule-breaking regardless of how much time has passed will get you a permanent ban subject to appeal.

Anyway, we are literally giving you a space to RANT but that doesn't give you the right to get all emotional and start using these threads to lead hateful campaigns against users who have different opinions and perceptions than you.

We will definitely pay close attention to what's happening and won't hesitate to ban if necessary.

Thanks.

I was scrolling through Tiktok when I saw the news of Lexie's departure, and, to my surprise, I saw people saying "Because she didn't want to baby sit a 16 year old 💀" and other comments blaming Sakura's addition.

I just don't understand why people feel the need to blame a 16 YEAR OLD for a members departure. Hybe & Geffen set Sakura up, they knew she was going to be hated by Lexie, Samara and Emily stans plus the later addition of fearnot's after Sakura (Le sserafim) changed her name to Miyawaki Sakura.

Honestly, I feel like I'm the only one wanting to give her time to progress and develop her skills. I do agree that Ayana should've won, but hating on the winner who is still a minor and has nothing to do with it instead of Hybe x Geffen is BEYOND my understanding

Basically I hate those times when an xlov members has tried to pick up a pride flag like the time Rui tried and got shouted at by a staff member and another time when staff told members to put down flags and poor Wumuti trying to explain what was going on but I mean why can’t they hold one if they are part of pride?(just know I’m being respectful) :{ :< :(

Had to get on here to rant about/clarify something that surprisingly so many people didn't bother to research. Chase Infiniti is not just a "white passing black girl" (not my words) who Ateez chose to perform on their MV for tiny diversity points. She wasn't chosen because Ateez mistakenly thought she was Latina either.

She has been a loyal Ateez supporter since DEBUT. She has been to almost all of their concerts since the beginning. She is also A RISING STAR. She is (correct me if I'm wrong) - an Emmy nominated actress for Testaments, her first movie (One battle after another) won the Oscar. She has been making covers of Kpop dances for years. Hongjoong and Chase met this year during Coachella and I believe that is were it kicked off.

She is a bigger Ateez (and Kpop) fan than a lot of people here, and I am very happy that she got the opportunity that she deserved. Her involvement boosts Ateez but it is also a way for them to thank her for her support and let her have the fangirl moment that we all wish we had.

Just to start off with, I am a stay and I love so many of their songs. But when they released the photos, I did think they look great (esp. BC), but I just felt like they are again pushing the concept that they a tuff and hardcore which they aren't (sorry). I really felt this in the MV of Run It and I couldn't finish it cause I was too cringed out, esp when they were basically growlling at each other, and having "tuff" animals edited in and claws and stuff. Idk if anyone else felt that way.

I do like the fact they are going for festival edm vibes which is gonna slap live but the mv i didnt like.

Edit:After reading all the comments and watching some of the analytical videos I understand the cutral aspects and all, but I still feel they could have executed it better. I just think that a MV that is telling a story should be able to be picked up more easily and understood by people who don't know what its going on about and create a further sense of curiosity which i didn't feel.

I am Japanese, and Japan has had a long-standing idol culture since the 1970s.

Recently, I watched BTS properly for the first time and was deeply impressed by the quality of their singing and dancing. I felt that their level of performance was unlike anything commonly seen in Japan, so I became a fan and joined their official fan club.

However, I was also surprised by the fact that, despite being global superstars, they frequently hold live broadcasts, communicate closely with fans, say things such as “I love you,” and sometimes behave in a way that creates the feeling of having a boyfriend-like relationship with their audience.

There are idols in Japan who use a similar approach, but it is often associated with underground idols or lesser-known groups that rely on close fan interaction to build popularity. For that reason, I found it surprising that globally famous artists such as BTS would use the same kind of strategy.

I have a family, so I am not personally looking to fall seriously in love with an idol. Even so, after watching their frequent live broadcasts and seeing how much they appeared to care about their fans, I found myself wanting to support them more. In that sense, I think this strategy is extremely effective and appealing.

At the same time, however, it also raises questions for me.

When I see incidents such as the video involving Jimin and a woman reported to be his former partner last year, or photographs that were interpreted as hints of Jungkook’s romantic relationship, I sometimes feel that their private lives are not managed very carefully for people of such global fame.

Of course, many rumors may be unverified or inaccurate. Still, I wonder why artists are marketed by telling fans, “You are important to me” or “I love you,” and by creating a romantic sense of closeness, while information that could damage that image continues to emerge.

I do not believe that idols should be forbidden from dating. They are human beings, and their private lives are important. I am not criticizing them simply for having romantic relationships.

However, if a company uses romantic intimacy with fans as part of its business model, then should it not also be part of the artist’s professional responsibility to keep private relationships out of public view as much as possible?

If fans are repeatedly told that they are special, while information appears that seems to contradict that message, it is understandable that some fans may feel hurt, deceived, or betrayed.

Japan has major talent agencies that have managed popular male idol groups for many years. Of course, scandals and problems do occur in Japan as well. Nevertheless, I believe these agencies have traditionally placed strong restrictions on their artists and have also worked to protect them by preventing private information from spreading widely.

Is it difficult for Korean entertainment companies to protect their artists and prevent details of their private lives from being exposed? Or, in the age of social media, has it simply become impossible for even the largest companies to fully control such information?

I also wonder how much authority entertainment companies have to advise or discipline artists when the artists themselves continue to post content, display behavior that may be interpreted as hinting at a relationship, or seek public attention through their private lives.

I find the musical quality and performance standards of K-pop extremely impressive. However, if the industry continues to rely heavily on creating a parasocial or romantic relationship with fans while remaining unclear or inconsistent about the management of artists’ private lives, I worry that fans may eventually become emotionally exhausted and lose interest in the industry itself.

It would be unfortunate if outstanding music and performances were overshadowed by dating rumors, so-called “relationship hints,” and endless speculation.

Why does the K-pop industry continue to use a marketing model that seems to contain such contradictions? How do Korean entertainment companies manage the balance between an artist’s private life and the image presented to fans?

I am not very familiar with the history of K-pop or with the structure of the Korean entertainment industry. Could these problems be happening because K-pop developed into a global industry so rapidly that systems for protecting artists’ privacy, managing social media, and defining appropriate boundaries with fans have not yet been fully established?

Or is this uncertainty itself part of a uniquely K-pop strategy designed to keep fans emotionally engaged and constantly interested?

I would be very interested to know how people in Korea, as well as K-pop fans around the world, feel about the current state of the industry.

There’s no reason yall are upset and mad everytime someone uses he/him pronouns on the members when they have a GENDERLESS concept. Yall aren’t truly respecting xlov if you only use and accept from others feminine pronouns like she/her. People can call them whatever they want as long as it’s not a boy or girl. Stop being a weirdo cause it only makes yall look weird when yall get mad that feminine pronouns aren’t only being used on a GENDERLESS GROUP.

It’s even weirder when it comes to some fans who said they should “switch it up” and then they only call haru and hyun he/him while wumuti and rui are she/her. We know exactly the type of people you are and why you’re saying that. Not only are you a weirdo but you’re stereotyping them based on their appearance and body which wumuti checked people about.

Yall are literally trying to force a strict feminine box on them instead of letting them be genderless free. Yall don’t even comprehend the 'free' part of the concept. You get iffy with Hyun and Haru and want to question their queerness based on nothing, when Haru is literally the one with a rumored ex boyfriend. Yall get mad just because Haru leans more on the masculine side sometimes and likes doing boy group dances, while the other three might do more feminine things. I still remember Rui literally correcting someone to say they were a 'prince' today instead of a princess. It’s so weird to box people in. Let them express themselves across the widest ranges freely. Even if they lean more feminine one day or masculine the next, you need to respect them EQUALLY.

hi not sure if this is the right flair but. a lot of times snarks pop up on my page about different kpop groups (ones i have never heard of nor follow sometimes). for example i notice in bts snark that there is a lot of posts regarding their looks. like “bts actually doesn’t look like this, they look like this, like everyone has bad photos? yes the ones posted on their account is edited but as a public figure in the entertainment industry, everyone does it? even western celebrities??

or if someone makes a mistake or does something the public feels is “cancellable” they go straight to insulting looks. i’m not defending everything a kpop idol has ever done, some are genuinely horrible but the way kpop fans go straight to dissing ppl’s looks kinda suck. i feel like this just perpetuates the toxic KBS of always having to look perfect at all times. not only that, i think it pushes KBS on younger fans and can make them insecure as well.

before you comment “you’re soft, this is not just kpop”. i know it’s not but it’s the way that’s the first thing kpop fans jump to is insane.

like katseye, yes most of their songs suck (just so brainrot even they don’t like to sing it) but insults towards lara’s looks is insane!