Americans convincing themselves Argentina is the most racist nazi zionist country in the world while their government has ICE concentration camps and is bombing schoolgirls in Iran is hilarious
Peron was a stupid f who decided to rub hands with the nazis, but there were a lot of people who didn't vote for him or supported all the stuff he was doing.
And now we have people from the country that starred Operation Paperclip calling us nazis. That's just rich.
then maybe take into account this here too? or talk about Spain? USA of course which had different bathrooms for black people until 1964 and france which had a black man in a ZOO until 1994
It's not "other people did it so we are allowed to do it" it's "other people did it, we didn't, and now they are trying to accuse us of being worse". Argentina never had segregation, black people in "zoos" or any system that resembles that
Obviously you can't paint an entire people with the same brush but there have been plenty of videos of Argentinians doing Argentinian things around the world even before the World Cup. I've seen it myself, at the local Mercado Buenos Aires, 6000 miles away from Argentina, when a brown Mexican customer tries buying some empanadas and they keep ignoring them to help Argentinians that came in after. They don't like it when I point it out either.
I'll just copy/paste an answer to another comment, but TL;DR they were just assimilated into the general population because while everyone flaunts the percentages they made up, their raw numbers were actually quite small:
yes [many Argentinian cities outside of Buenos Aires were majority black]... before a mass wave of millions of European migrants that ballooned the population. Argentina only hit the 1 million population mark in the 1850s, to give you an idea, and 10 million in 1923. from 1880 to 1920, some 4.5 million Europeans would immigrate.
like, you do understand that saying black people made up 50% of certain cities in that time period means basically nothing, right? outside of the central cities of Buenos Aires, Rosario, Cordoba, & Mendoza, you were lucky if a city had upwards of 10,000 residents - Rosario & Mendoza, major cities now, only even hit 10,000 residents both in the 1850s specifically.
black people made up a high percentage of the population back then when the Argentine population was not even a fraction of what it is today, and when taken in the context of the ensuing immigration their raw numbers simply were not enough to sustain a distinct ethnic community, & they ended up intermixing with the millions of new immigrants. Afro-Argentines as a distinct demographic are a tiny share of the total population, but the mulattos & mixed-race people that descend from them are still a very sizeable part of the Argentine population
Has visitado el país? Sobre todo las provincias de Cordoba, Salta Jujuy, Chubut, Misiones, Tucumán, Santiago del Estero? Has podido recorrer las calles como para llegar a esa conclusión? Vamos, estás invitado
They still exist today. Out in plain sight, talking about their own experiences in Argentina. I would argue that the fact you don't recognize them or care to look for their testimony says more about your myopic views than some of the other people on this thread.
So then what is the significance in you posting an Afro-Argentine historical figure if in Argentina no one sees race?
The reality is every country in the world has issues with racism. What people have been reacting to this week is a broad refusal from many Argentinians to even acknowledge that there is a lot of work still to do within the borders of Argentina.
It’s been multiple years since that clip of that abhorrent, racist song your players proudly sang came to light, yet no member of the national team, federation, or government denounced or apologized for it.
I’ve seen more defenses of Argentina and Argentine racism towards actual Black people than Argentinians saying “that was fucked up and wrong”.
The point of posting an Afro-Argentine historical figure isn't because race defines our society. It's precisely to remind people that Afro-Argentines have always been part of our history, even if many people outside Argentina wrongly assume they disappeared.
I don't think many Argentinians would argue that racism doesn't exist here. Every country has racism. What many of us have been pushing back against is the recent narrative portraying Argentina as uniquely or exceptionally racist, as if we're somehow worse than countries with long histories of segregation, colonialism, or ongoing racist incidents.
The chant by some members of the national team was wrong. Plenty of Argentinians criticized it. Unfortunately, football culture has a long history of disgusting racist chants and abuse
. Black players are still monkey-chanted in several European leagues, sometimes even by their own clubs' supporters after a bad performance. That doesn't excuse what happened, it just means it's a broader football problem, not something uniquely Argentine.
So yes, racism exists here, and there's room for improvement. What many of us object to is the idea that Argentina is "the most racist country in the world" or that racism is somehow uniquely Argentine. Those are two very different claims.
The Europeans should be brought up because oftentimes they want to “punch down“ on people they colonized without addressing their own ills.
With that being said it is fairly damning that no official denouncement or apology ever came from the Argentine national team, federation, or government.
who said that? its just that most people are mixed here so most people have traits or a lot of different etnicities, me for example, im part mapuche (native), italian, sirian and russian
the mapuche side of my family is really dark skinned, im kind of a coffe+ milk, its like in brazil when a single family has a wide variety of etnicities
This is a joke, right? Argentina has no "dark skin" people? Have you been here? Have you seen what we look like? Did you bring your Pantone color chips to see if we're dark enough or not?
lol, lmao even. The fact that you had the gall to post that photo unironically. But I guess the "United Colors of Benetton" line of racial relations is prime currency nowadays.
Meanwhile, there is a thriving Congolese, Senegalese and African diaspora community in Buenos Aires, for example. Is there a lot of them? Not if you compare to other nationalities, but that doesn't erase them.
Have you looked into testimonies from Afro Argentines in this discussion? Do you want me to send you profile pictures to see if they pass your color skin chart?
Funny thing is, I think you are actually coming from a good place. You believe that racism is bad, that people should not be considered less-than or more-than based on the color of your skin. But your narrow views on race end up doing ironically the exact opposite: classifying us based on how many "TYPE V" or "TYPE VI" (your words, not mine) we have in our territory.
I am a foreigner living in Argentina for decades already. I have seen much less racism here than in my native Italy, Spain, the UK and Portugal (places I lived for more than 6 months)
Show me any evidence that Argentinean fans are systematically or even commonly racist towards other fans. A single video from years ago won't do, every country has twats.
except that's a lie, they were largely just assimilated into the far larger European population. copy/pasting 'cause it has pertinent info:
yes [many Argentinian cities outside of Buenos Aires were majority black]... before a mass wave of millions of European migrants that ballooned the population. Argentina only hit the 1 million population mark in the 1850s, to give you an idea, and 10 million in 1923. from 1880 to 1920, some 4.5 million Europeans would immigrate.
like, you do understand that saying black people made up 50% of certain cities in that time period means basically nothing, right? outside of the central cities of Buenos Aires, Rosario, Cordoba, & Mendoza, you were lucky if a city had upwards of 10,000 residents - Rosario & Mendoza, major cities now, only even hit 10,000 residents both in the 1850s specifically.
black people made up a high percentage of the population back then when the Argentine population was not even a fraction of what it is today, and when taken in the context of the ensuing immigration their raw numbers simply were not enough to sustain a distinct ethnic community, & they ended up intermixing with the millions of new immigrants. Afro-Argentines as a distinct demographic are a tiny share of the total population, but the mulattos & mixed-race people that descend from them are still a very sizeable part of the Argentine population
MY GOSH americans watch a tiktok and think a whole 46million-people country is racist. If I were you, I would be more worried about what happens in the USA in regards to that
I’ve been thinking it since the 2024 Copa final when the Argentina players started chanting about France, who was not involved (obviously) and whom they had not played in almost 2 years.
It’s strange behavior to always have uninvolved black people’s genitalia on your mind.
Football culture in our country involves A LOT of banter, our fans will find a way to mock you in order to get to your nerves no matter how you look. It’s way more complex than just assuming argentines are hyperfixated in hating black people.
It’s such a shame cause this last couple of weeks there’s been a great media-driven hate towards people and a country you don’t even know where to put on a map.
I’ve been to Argentina. We’re not ignorant of it. We know about “no somos Latinos; somos europeos.” And every American has at the very least heard of Juan and Eva Perron and the Ratlines. We also j ow of the efforts to “mejorar la raza.”
And I’ve had Argentine-American friends explain this to me. I understand that football culture is different from country to country. In the US, the stuff those players were saying would get you fired from your job. Here, we view racism, even jokingly, as unacceptable. So, we wouldn’t view it as banter, but as hate speech.
For example, if I say “Las Malvinas son Inglesas.” Here in the US, nobody cares at all—it’s a group of worthless rocks, but in Argentina, I’d be fired for writing that on official documents. Or if I say, “Perronistas should have disappeared more people from airplanes”—no on cares here. In Argentina, it’s offensive. Even words like “cagón,” “pecho frio” “botón” or “careta” are offensive in Argentina in a way they’re not offensive amongst mid Vatos.
And I think the best example is: if an Argentine came to the US, for lots of America, you’d just be Mexican. And you might respond, “well I’m from Buenos Aires.” The American would just respond, “I don’t care what part of Mexico you’re from.” To you, that might be offensive. To the US, that’d just be banter.
Don’t host a World Cup if you’re not able to understand how fans from all the world live this sport. You discriminated middle eastern fans and referees just based on the country they were from. The problem is you have no memory in those short-term tiktok brains of yours.
I love it that you tried provoking with vague facts about our history, you did not offend me with that. I’m not made out of glass and no country that, to this day, intervenes others for their own benefit (or for democracy like you love to say) will ever make me feel ashamed of where I’m from.
Not at all, you just cannot point with your fingers calling other racists if your country and society are not racist free, so basically you are not a role model, and you can't point others. The photo that I've posted it explains the irony very well :)
French players filmed themselves making racists jokes against an Asian, 5 Germans were signing a very racist song against native population of argentina, Egypt has multiples reports of excluding non Muslim players from the NT, half of England wanted to sack all black players because of some missed penalties, Brazilians were making fun of the suicides rates in Japan. Yet the only country that faced a backlash this big was Argentina. This is clearly not a spontaneous phenomenon.
"Visibly on the internet" Jesus Christ. Like the main characteristic of the internet is that you can trust everything you see, and you can be sure that nobody could be manipulating things to push an agenda.
Let's judge people based on the actions of our current society. The fact that our national teams are made up mostly of 'white' men is due to historical reasons unrelated to any 'genocide'. It's like blaming Germans today for you know what
>Little to none cultural influence of black people.
This statement is racist in and of itself, it contributes to the erasure of Afro-argentines. The US can’t even put a black woman on its twenty dollar bill without half the country losing its shit.
Just to be the devils advocate, I wouldn't bring up Nazis either because Argentine housed quite a few, including those who were architects of the Holocaust.
She even appears on one of our moneybills, alongside the father of the flag and the May Revolution. But yes, you ignorant souls: Argentina—which, by the way, freed its slaves long before the United States did, among many other things—is a racist country.
sadly this won't be talked about enough because it doesn't feed the racist argentina narrative created by people who can't even point the country in a map
Look. Spain is racist and you see that any time you leave major metros. The United States literally had a civil war over slavery. Canadians shit on Indigenous people all the time. Russians treat all minority areas as target practice. France might elect Le Pen.
What I am trying to say is the whole world is fucking racist as shit. And a lot of us sick of it.
Hey! How u dare to post this information? Don't u know that the trend is to pretend that this anti colonial, proud, and early abolitionist of slavery country is full of racist and bad people??
So in your opinion once Argentina became independent from Spain, instead of stopping their part in the slave trade they should've keep bringing more slaves to keep the black % of the population lv with the millions of immigrants from Europe and Middle East?
Sarmiento was ambassador to the USA for decades before becoming Argentina's president: he explicitly tried to copy the USA by enticing europeans to come to Argentina.
He also said he failed, because he could not get nordics, germans and anglo saxons to come, but only spaniards and lowlife italians
I didn't like their speech as it promotes violence against women and girls. I think promoting violence should be an arrestable offense. I also think they are guilty af. I heard a couple of the women's testimonies and it was horrific what they went through. Andrew and his brother are sociopaths.
From the same account, guys. He said promoting violence should be an arrestable offense, still he is promoting it here. What hypocrisy.
Not long after Maria's passing, the conquest of the desert
when you learn that the genocide wasnt made by an argentine or the argentine state but an european born jew that wanted to proclaim himself as king of the patagonia and make a jewish state.
I know, we can't forget that Argentina is the only white country in south America because of their aggressive colonial policies and frequent war mongering.
It's a commonly known fact that if the Argentine military were successful with the Falklands their real battle was with Chile in the beagle canal.
Las políticas de europerizacion eran monedas corriente de la época y la mayoría de los países, gracias a europa y eeuu fomentaron ésta. Pero bueno cree lo que quieras creer, nadie en Argentina va a dar un solo paso atrás en este tema, más cuando se dicen estupideces con una nivel de ignorancia que asusta
Yeah instead of promoting immigration from European workers argentina should've keep the slave trade they cut in their independence, they should've keep bringing millions of Africans by force instead of giving freedom and rights earlier than most countries did
Argentina was never 50% black. Not even Buenos Aires was, which is the ridiculous statistic that always get quoted as if 30% of a city is the same as a country.
The reason is simple: no tropical plantations, cotton specifically. That's why you see lots of blacks in southern US and in Brazil and the Caribbean, but you don't see many in Canada or Chile o Argentina.
And when a very little percentage of the population can freely reproduce with the vast majority because there's no segregation, they mostly do so. Being able to freely marry and have kids with whoever you like is a GOOD thing and not a fucking genocide you racists.
Argentinas demographic used to have half of its population from afro descent and now it's under 1%,
That information is incorrect. It's based on a 1770 census of cities (45 years before Argentina existed as a nation), but slavery in Argentina was limited to domestic service; there were no slaves on farms. This is because Argentine agriculture was not yet developed. At that time, Argentina was just a collection of trading cities along the rivers that connected it to Upper Peru (present-day Bolivia), a more populated region with greater wealth due to its silver and gold. After independence, all trade collapsed, and that's when people began migrating to the countryside and developing agriculture. The point is that those censuses that showed 45% were Black only included the cities and ignored the countryside, where there were many Indigenous people, people of mixed race, and whites. Therefore, the Indigenous population would actually be 40-50% of Argentina's population, and 20/30% mestizos, not Black people. The black population would actually be even smaller than the white population if rural areas were included.
This is just plainly and demonstrably untrue. I would challenge you to show me the sources that say that 50% of our population at any point in our history was from African descent.
Some sources say that 30% - 40% of the city of Buenos Aires (not the entire country) was black in 1810. The city of Buenos Aires at that time had ~ 40,000 people living there.
Due to migration, with the vast majority of them coming from Europe, it had grown to 1500% its size by the end of the 19th century. In 1904 there were almost 1,000,000 people living here. This diluted the significance of the Afro Argentine community in the population composition.
I don't really know what you mean by the fact that we're "the only white country in south America because of aggressive colonial policies and frequent war mongering". Care to explain?
The most widely accepted theory today is that the Black population gradually decreased over the generations due to its mixture with whites and, to a lesser extent, indigenous peoples, which occurred frequently since the 18th century in the colonial period, and that it accelerated even more in the late 19th century (in the already independent Argentina) with the arrival of the massive immigration wave from Europe and Middle East.
yes... before a mass wave of millions of European migrants that ballooned the population. Argentina only hit the 1 million population mark in the 1850s, to give you an idea, and 10 million in 1923. from 1880 to 1920, some 4.5 million Europeans would immigrate.
like, you do understand that saying black people made up 50% of certain cities in that time period means basically nothing, right? outside of the central cities of Buenos Aires, Rosario, Cordoba, & Mendoza, you were lucky if a city had upwards of 10,000 residents - Rosario & Mendoza, major cities now, only even hit 10,000 residents both in the 1850s specifically.
black people made up a high percentage of the population back then when the Argentine population was not even a fraction of what it is today, and when taken in the context of the ensuing immigration their raw numbers simply were not enough to sustain a distinct ethnic community, & they ended up intermixing with the millions of new immigrants. Afro-Argentines as a distinct demographic are a tiny share of the total population, but the mulattos & mixed-race people that descend from them are still a very sizeable part of the Argentine population
During the 18th census, the population was 180000 in Buenos Aires, and around 480000 total.
Combine your percentage of those numbers, with the massive (roughly 6 million) European immigration of the late 19th and early 20th century, with no racial segregation whatsoever.
In the 21st century there was a small wave of African immigrants, mainly from Senegal.
You say ‘attempts to whitewash the country’ as if Argentinas government back then forcefully imported Europeans. Argentina’s borders were always opened, to all nationalities.
"I enjoy the part where I only read 1 sentence and ignore all the data that comes after that actually explain the metrics, but since this doesn't fit the narrative I will ignore it"
It didn't succeed because 'whitewashing' the way you're proposing it never occurred in Argentina.
The Conquest of the Desert was an attempt to expand Argentinian territory and fight against natives that were perpetually plundering Argentinian cities, killing men, raping women and stealing all they could in the process. It wasn't a 'racial' war as much as it was just a normal war. There were two sides, one won. That's it.
The reason there are very few fully dark-skinned people in Argentina is because everyone had children with everyone and we all ended up mixed race mutts.
Get your head out of your ass. If you're going to hate, at least get your facts right.
Haiti (1804)
Mechanism: 1804 Independence Constitution
Source: UNESCO Slave Route Project / Haitian Declaration of Independence
Argentina (1813)
Mechanism: Libertad de vientres (Freedom of Wombs) passed by the Asamblea del Año XIII
Source: Biblioteca del Congreso de la Nación Argentina / Archivo General de la Nación
Chile (1823)
Mechanism: Supreme Decree by Director Ramón Freire
Source: Biblioteca del Congreso Nacional de Chile
Federal Republic of Central America (1824) (Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua)
Mechanism: 1824 Federal Constitution
Source: Constitución Republicana del Centro de América (1824)
Mexico (1829)
Mechanism: Emancipation Decree by President Vicente Guerrero
Source: Archivos Generales de la Nación (Mexico)
Bolivia (1831)
Mechanism: 1831 Political Constitution
Source: Constitución Política del Estado de Bolivia (1831)
United Kingdom (1833)
Mechanism: Slavery Abolition Act 1833
Source: UK National Archives (3 & 4 Will. IV c. 73)
Uruguay (1842)
Mechanism: National Abolition Law of 1842
Source: Archivo General de la Nación de Uruguay
Tunisia (1846)
Mechanism: Royal Decree by Ahmad I ibn Mustafa
Source: Archives Nationales de Tunisie
Denmark (1848)
Mechanism: Emancipation Proclamation in Danish West Indies
Source: Danish National Archives (Rigsarkivet)
USA, France, Spain, Brazil, Paraguay all took in nazis after ww2. Even some did it in higher numbers than Argentina. Therefore, your ignorance has been desplayed before you. Do with it what you wish.
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u/JacksRagingGlizzy 52m ago
She's considered "Madre de la Patria," "Mother of the Nation."