I don’t know why his narration isn’t working for this one, usually his readings are near flawless.

He sounds like he’s got half his body out of the office door and his keys in the ignition.

What a dry and blah reading. Anyone else think this one is oddly boring and dispassionate?

I picked up this book for a flight and ended up finishing it the next day. I’ve seen recommendations for this book and now I understand why. I know many people have gushed about it, but I wanted to pour some of my thoughts here.

I have mixed feelings about the bait-and-switch used throughout the book. It kinda annoyed me sometimes when the author is doing “this is happening but I’m not going to tell you what or who”, but ultimately it’s the reason I couldn’t put it down!

Over the course of the book, I found myself looking forward to Alvar’s POVs. Ammar, Rodrigo, and Jehane are great, but I loved the perspective of the “regular” guy among great men and women, who grew to be great himself in his own way. He is there mostly as an observer though, so I’m left wanting more.

My fantasy books consist of LOTR and Brandon Sanderson, so I wasn’t prepared for the amount of sex scenes. This might be controversial, forgive me, but I could do with less. I really liked Miranda and Rodrigo’s scene though.

I’d appreciate some recommendations on what I should read next. I’m aware that his historical-fantasy books are set in the same world, but I assume they don’t have to be read in publication order, do they? I’m quite interested in Children of the Sky as it features the Ottoman-like empire, from the synopsis. Is there another book with an Asharite major character?

>!Just finished my first GGK novel in the Lions​ of Al-Rassan. And I am no​w a fan regardless of my opinions of the ending. I believe it was wonderfully written, the prose style was an absolute treat to experience and plot devices were amazingly used.

As a tragic​ romantic, I just can't bring myself to the a nonetheless happy ending offered with most of the old world retained.

Ammar is one of my favorite characters all across the board but that is precisely why I wished him dead in the final battle. It was to preserve his honor and his talents and his aura. Rodrigo Belmonte was probably a better character in my opinion as he represented mor​e than just quirks and smarts.

Jehane was the central character but in my mind she was always dwindling between important choice​s including the two men in her life. And not​ one of them in my opinion shouldve ended up with her— maybe Rodrigo just to make things a bit interesting— but that would hurt him more than her, so I'm okay with him out.

The guy(s) that really captured me more than those two centrals, as it always does since I'm a big side character guy, are Mazur Ben Avren and Alvar de Pellino. Both of them with the relatively limited time they had were more suited for a big turnout in my opinion.

Some might argue Alvar had his moment in the epilogue but it felt rushed and the only thing I loved​ about it was the fakeout where he was being shipped with Jehane, which made most sense to me.

Alvar was a true lover who was direct in his approach, more or less, and never got a true chance in the mix. Mazur too but at least he had Zabira who I'd be interested in knowing the aftermath of.

Any case, my boy Alvar was done wrong as it happens in most​ fantasies unwilling to take big risks in discarding the favorites but for a standalone of this stature, I wish more liberties were taken.

Having said all this, still a great book. I'm reading Tigana next. Suggest me some more that can keep me hooked like this.!<

I don’t know why it struck me so hard right now, but I just wanted to comment to someone who will know what I mean when I say GGK highlights how brief encounters and seemingly small decisions change lives and the course of history.

The Sarantine Mosaic has a lot of 1:1 real world/fantasy version of various figures. I was wondering what might be feeding into the pagan god Ludan as portrayed in Sailing to Sarantium. Is there a 1:1 inspiration? If not, what real world things might be ingredients in the recipe that yielded Ludan?

Hello, everyone! I am Haley Wilt, an editor with the indie science fiction and fantasy publishing house Eclogue Press, which just released its first print journal. Included in this edition is a lovely new poem by the wonderful Guy Gavriel Kay. (I've read it probably twenty times since he sent it my way, and it's only gotten better with each read through. Speaking of it—I really need to read it again.)

This poem will be available for you to read for free on our website and Substack in the next week or so (you can subscribe to Eclogue on Substack to receive it in your email inbox when we send it out), but I am posting the journal here first, because publishing a print journal does cost money! (Radically, we paid human writers for their 100% human-written work.)

If you're interested in buying a copy, it's available here. It includes essays, heaps of poetry, and brilliant science fiction and fantasy stories.

About Eclogue: We are a small press seeking to help new authors and new stories reach the science fiction & fantasy audience.

You may be wondering: Why is the great GGK publishing a poem with this little startup press? It's because he's kind. (And because we've stayed in touch after he graciously allowed me to interview him for a piece about his work last year.)

Thanks for your time, and happy reading!

Best,

Haley

I'm a huge fan of GGK, have read everything he's written, and many of them twice. I've always said the Sarantium books were great, having read them when they first came out.

Just finished a re-read and I am stunned. My favorite has always been Tigana, and I'd say Lions as a close second. But rankings are difficult, and fluid -- what could be better than these two books? So much of everything that makes art great. Just stunning.

It's so bittersweet, getting to the end.

These are begging for an HBO series.

I've just finished Written on the dark and I'm wondering about the occasional blurring of Kay's author voice with Thierry Villar's point of view. Kay identifying with his protagonist? Why so explicitly? It happens at intervals in the text, for example "As to the future, we have guests, hopes, plans, apprehensions. Or perhaps, for some, there is no time for any of these, caught up as they are on the hard endlessly demanding task of living, of staying alive. Yes. I truly didn't know. We do seldom know." It happens elsewhere, but very obviously in the last paragraph of the epilogue, which seems very autobiographical. It's written in the first person but doesn't work for Villar as the paragraph before literally says "he never knew that". Nor do I feel it works as a substitute for Kay's use of we or you.

​

Kay is also poet and lawyer I believe, so I see the links, but I'm puzzled by the choice to switch to first person intermittently when the POV is not directly the character's, but still implying the first person is both the character and the author.

​

Anyone else notice this?

Help me remember the truth! 🤔 I’m churning through head to head comparisons of all the books I’ve read (to get some fun stats/rankings), and I knew this day would come - 5,000 matchups later. Help me make the impossible choice! ⚔️

Really love the stories and settings Kay creates, but don’t believe I’ve ever seen on that is set in a fictional version of North or South America. So I’ve got two questions:

1) Has he ever given a reason or is just as simple has he hasn’t found a story that’s motivated him?

2) Any recommendations for books that fit this description? Or just generally authors who have a similar style and choice of story as Kay?

Thanks

Hey.

Let me say right away that I don't think The Lions of Al-Rassan is a bad book. I still rate it positively, but I just... I have my issues with this novel.

As for my favorite character, I think it's the inexperienced Alvar. I thought I'd love Rodrigo and/or Ammar, but even though their characters had a lot of "aura farming," I didn't grow attached to them. Besides, I wasn't convinced by the "triangle," which had an obvious ending – Rodrigo had a wife and he wasn't a cheating husband.

This also influenced the final duel between Rodrigo and Ammar. It was obvious that Rodrigo - husband and father - would die, and Ammar would get his happy ending with Jehane. Although I admit, the author tried to confuse the issue in the epilogue by suggesting that Alvar might have married Jehane.

Overall, Jehane was just okay, but I didn't care for her.

King Badir, his chancellor Masur, and Zabira are also strong characters. Zabira is simply my weakness for the femme fatale/seductive woman trope, when it's not done superficially. It's unknown what ultimately happened to her, but in my headcanon, King Badir somehow ensured her and her children's safety, if only because of his chancellor's sacrifice.

Overall, I feel this book is the most cruel in terms of punishments against people and the lack of respect for corpses. I know it was realistic, and such punishments probably existed in the historical period the author was inspired by, but I simply felt anger at cruel punishments that made sense to characters from specific cultures. It's as if cruelty make sense. It simply doesn't.

Of the GGK books I've read so far, this one is the most religious, and I simply don't accept the notions that religion makes some people superior and others inferior and "infidels," and that "infidels" can be killed, tortured, or their corpses desecrated. The author isn't saying these views are right or disapprove of them, but I simply felt anger at such views because I don't accept them.

Overall, it's not a bad book. I had a good time reading it. I just feel like the historical period that inspired the author for this novel doesn't resonate with me at all. I also have a problem with Asian settings when they're too focused on honor and obedience to parents, who sometimes simply don't deserve obedience.

In any case, despite the still high quality, this is probably my least favorite GGK book I've read so far. Perhaps it will take some time for my opinion to soften.

Ranking:

1. A Brightness Long Ago

2. A Song for Arbonne

3. Children of Earth and Sky

4. Tigana

5. The Lions of Al-Rassan

I’m looking for my next GGK read and these two stand out the most to me! So far, I’ve only read Lions of Al-Rassan and overall loved it. The writing, setting, and characters were all beautifully done. I greatly appreciated the real-world parallels with the religious and political factions and found the narrative really compelling. I will say my one issue was with all the gratuitous sex scenes - they just felt unnecessary and didn’t contribute to the story. In particular, a major female character sleeping with a boy to “cure” his desire for her seemed a bit silly. Otherwise, great book!

Any further recommendations, especially between these two options? Thanks so much!

Do you guys have any recommendations for podcasts doing chapter by chapter discussions on GGK books?

Judging by the number of ratings and reviews on Goodreads, and the fact that Tigana simply seems to be the more popular of the two, I thought Tigana was probably the more appreciated book.

Personally, I grew attached to Dianora, but I didn't feel much connection to the other characters. At times, it was a bit too sublime for me, regarding the homeland.

Theoretically, Arbonne also has this theme, but it seemed to be handled in a more mature way.

Overall, I cared about more characters here.

Blaise MVP, Bertran, Ariane, Rosala, maybe even Ranald... It was more intense, and this book reminded me of something I love in Guy Gavriel Kay's work – some scenes have such tension that you could cut them with a knife, and you just can't stop until the scene/sequence is over. In this case, for example, Blaise's fight with the warrior whose brother he killed, or Ranald's fight with the king.

Overall, the king and Blaise's father were too overtly negative, but I hated them with a passion. We need antagonists like that too.

Anyway, I'm satisfied and will start reading The Lions of Al-Rassan tomorrow. I can only hope next book continues to be great too.

Overall, of the books by Guy Gavriel Kay I've read so far, here's my ranking: 1. A Brightness Long Ago 2. A Song for Arbonne 3. Children of Earth and Sky 4. Tigana

I admit that while reading, I became particularly attached to Dianora, and compared to her, the other characters seemed to pale in complexity. I knew she had to get an unhappy ending, but I still wanted her to somehow get a happy one. Her death deeply saddened me, even if it seemed logical—how could she live and explain to the other Tigans that she could have killed Brandin for so many years and didn't? Baerd and the others probably wouldn't have killed her for it, but there are thousands of other Tigans, and they might not understand... Could this have been an easier option for Dianora? Yes, but I wouldn't blame her. She was simply fed up with life, and after Brandin's death, it would be difficult for her to hope for anything good to come.... Anyway, I'll finally get to my question. Brandin spoke of other worlds. Do I understand correctly that Dianora, after death, could join Brandin in an "other world," where their love could have a happy ending? Dianora's death was deeply depressing. I know the thought of "she finally finding peace" should comfort me, but I wanted to see her finally happy, without guilt. Am I right to think that in the "other world," Dianora is happy with Brandin?

P.S. So far, I've read earlier "Children of Earth and Sky" and "A Brightness Long Ago," and recently checked out Tigana, A Song for Arbonne, and The Lions of Al-Rassan from the library. Arbonne and Lions are still to come for me.

I’m looking for a similar prose style to my three favorite fantasy authors: Robin Hobb, Guy Gavriel Kay, and George RR Martin. I love gritty, immersive, melancholic, and intimate prose. Not a fan of simple, plot driven prose like John Gwynne’s style. Any recommendations are much appreciated.

Philip Case and Evan from The Nerd Writer are reading and discussing Kay's bibliography in publication order.

GGK himself shared the link to this discussion for Arbonne on his Facebook page. Listening to this has reminded me that I'm due for a reread.

My dad introduced me to the Fionavar trilogy a few years ago. I'm currently working my way through The Darkest Road and it's some good stuff.

GGK is one of his favorite authors. His birthday is coming up in March and I thought it might be a good present if I could get him an autographed copy of The Summer Tree.

I'd appreciate it if people could direct me toward some good resources? I don't have a price range in mind yet and I probably won't buy a copy if it's too expensive, but I figured it couldn't hurt to look.

Edit: I live in the US.

I was wondering what Kay fans read when they aren’t enjoying Kay’s work.

I’ve been in the process of refining my tastes in epic fantasy this past month.

I’ve found that, I’m no longer 17, and the series in this genre that used to impress me are quite schlocky and full of pulp. Or, I discovered/realized that they’re straight up bad.

I recently tried to return to Brandon Sanderson and dang, I could not believe how much I hated it. Coming back to his work 14 years later, I just shouldn’t have done that. I should have allowed a delusional good memory to remain a delusional good memory.

Same with so many others.

Erikson, Jordan, Rothfuss, and I could go on.

Maybe it’s just getting older.

Maybe it’s discovering authors like…

Mary Stewart

Guy Gavriel Kay

Patricia A. McKillip (seriously, a contender for best prose stylist of all time)

Ken Follet

Bernard Cornwell

R. Scott Bakker

Le Guin

L. E. Modesitt Jr

Stephen R. Donaldson

But here are two other authors I have fond memories of that have kept their quality over the years in my opinion, it’s not just nostalgia.

Tad Williams and Robin Hobb

Upon returning to them this year, I was so relieved that I didn’t find a giant pile of pulp.

So, on that journey of discovering how bad my taste once was, I’m looking for other authors to add to my TBR, and I figured this sub would be the better place to ask.

Thank you. 😎

I don't think there will be much work involved molding this place since it is a pretty quiet place, but I would like to add more people who are interested, for extra hands on deck just in case. Please contact me if you are interested.

Did they ever print it in mass market paperback? I've got the first volume and I'm looking for the second to match but I can only seem to find it in trade paperback or hardback.

This is the cover I'm looking for: https://www.whichbook.net/assets/bookcovers/2529.jpg

I recently re-read the the Renaissance trilogy of books, and I personally believe that Children of Earth and Sky and All the Seas of the World don't really get the love they deserve. For me, they are among my favorite GGK novels.

Children of Earth and Sky has a sweeping epic feel to it that makes it really grand. Lots of grand things happen in all of his novels, but it feels much more closer to the characters here. Part 3 in particular is great, since it is where so many points converge together. Danica is an amazing character.

Rafel and Nadia have one of the best dynamics of any GGK couple. I love how they develop and grow because of each other. I think All of the Seas of the World has one of the best romances GGK has written.

I know these two books aren't really favored too heavily, but I think they contain some of GGK's best and most compelling characters and I think the whole Renaissance trilogy is a wonderful showcase of GGK's writing (That being said, I think A Brightness Long Ago is amazing too, but that one is usually high-regarded as well).