Was at an airport in a prominent tourist destination. A man from Utah (he made this point immediately) started a conversation with two women who were born and raised in Jerusalem. The man almost immediately asks the women: “Have you been to the BYU Jerusalem center?” Both women clearly had no idea what he was talking about. He brings an image of it up on his phone. They still say they have no idea what it is. The man begins rambling about it and its connection to religion and scripture and how wonderful it is and how he is “very surprised” they don’t know what it is.

His further conversation with them was of course laced with every possible reference to the Mormon church….his family, missionaries, temple, etc. I could tell the women were not comfortable with any of it.

Really hit home how clueless Mormons are and what a vacuum they live in. This guy couldn’t comprehend how people didn’t know what BYU Jerusalem was. Buddy, I hate to break it to you, but your religion is non-existent outside of your Utah bubble.

Edit: He later asks them, in all seriousness, “So where are you headed for your next vacation? Utah?” 🤪

I was born into a Mormon family, I'm 17 now and I don't believe in the church but I play along so my parents don't get mad at me. My dad and uncles are hardcore Mormons but my aunt isn't a Mormon, she had sex before marriage, drinks coffee, and quit the church when she was 18. We were at a family gathering and every time she sat in the living room with everyone else, my dad would for some reason bring up the topic about the gospel and basically was trying to somehow prove that my aunt was wrong for leaving the church. He would keep bringing up about how miserable non members he knew were and how staying in the church was good for you. I felt really bad for my aunt and felt like he was being a dick to her. My dad's really kind to his own kids and wife, but seeing him treating his own sister like shit cause she was a non member made me wonder if all Mormons are just assholes to non members, he's incredibly homophobic, hates piercings, and hates anything different and emo. I just want to know if all your Mormon parents or friends were this insufferable ☹️

If anything will be done about it remains to be seen, still it's nice to be vindicated

This time from 2011. You can see other examples here, here, here, and here, as well as a report on active oil/gas drilling on church owned lands in Colorado. Don’t forget that the church also uses service missionaries to support its fossil fuel interests.

I work in a campus building hosting FSY, and some instructor left this list up. I thought I'd add a similar line item.

I don't believe in the church at all but I still go to church and mutual, to keep my parents happy. I honestly don't mind going to the church, what bothers me the most is when my mom takes out money from my account every paycheck I get for tithing. I don't argue with her about it since it's always a losing battle but one day I jokingly asked her, "If I need to be a full tithe payer to get my temple recommendation, isn't the temple a paid access area?" I meant this as a joke but my mom went absolute psycho on me and took my phone and grounded me. She told me it was a blessing to pay my tithing and the temple wasn't paid access at all. I genuinely don't understand how it's not a paid access thing, please explain 😭 🙏

I am curious. I hear a lot of controversy regarding the vaccine when Covid happened a few years back. Where people were mad at Nelson for encouraging people to take the vaccine.

Does the controversy lie in science or in the personal preference and political preference of individuals?

edit: pretty ironic the typo in my title. sigh. . . wrote this as my entire body is lit up with rage. didn't have time to check for mistakes

I came here to rant. I'm just feeling completely outraged. I don't even know what to do with this anger. I haven't expressed it, and I'm afraid to because, it feels like once I let the lid off, i'm not sure how to get it back on.

Hi, I'm ex-mo now 10 years. I left pretty early. I remember being in primary class, doubting everything they were saying. It didn't make sense. Regurgitated thoughts that lacked substance. When I asked questions no one could seem to answer me properly. Early on I pretty much accepted it was a scam. I left at 13 years old. My parents continue to be Mormon. That's the can of worms I'm not ready to open.

Because you see, due to life circumstances I am back at my parents house after not living with them since I was 17. They have cameras all over their home, and I probably don't need to expand on that. I unfortunately have nowhere else to go at the moment. Despite me repeating to them, I will NEVER believe in their church, I have my own religious beliefs, they don't respect it. My dad will tell me I will get lost in the FIRES of the old worlds. Like shut the fuck up.

I had a near death experience pretty young as well. That confirmed to me what I have always known. That , ALL OF IT IS BULLSHIT.

Not to mention what mormon settlers did to the Timpanogos people. I don't know what to do with all this anger. I see my parents, and I don't see them. I see ignorant, stupid people who can so easily fall for a cult. Not brave enough to leave it even though my dad is aware it's all fake.

I am native, and my other size of my family is colonizer white people. I have to reckon with being both in my lineage.
I hate them. I hate them.

I hate what my parents have done to our family, they are so blind. So fucking blind. They consistently choose a religion, over their own children.

I'm also QUEER AS FUCK and it's so obvious yet I feel so trapped in their control and shame they try to put me in. I want to leave and never speak to them again. It is suffocating. Fuck Joseph smith. Masonic conman.

Fuck that fat fuck young and what he did to the men women and children of the Timpanogos people. FUCK BYU for still withholding their ancestral things in that dingy stupid museum that no one EVEN goes to. They are so evil.

This is poorly worded It's late and i'm just so angry.

I know there are other perspectives I could have. The anger doesn't feel good when I'm so stuck where I'm at. In their stupid control center where they try to use emotional manipulation and withholding of love to make me return to their cult. NOT happening. Just so confused as to why they couldn't just love the humans they created. Even if they happened to be more intelligent than them. Instead, just not deserving of love. Just a weak sinner, in their eyes.

25 years ago we did.

I haven’t heard of one at the church for a long time .. seems like it is less of a thing now?

Why is it that believing members don't take things like celiac or life-threatening food allergies seriously?

I spent years serving in the YW program and I have two kids with celiac disease. I have so many horror stories from my time at camps and trek. I can't fathom how grown adults can have so little care for the well being of these kids they are in charge of. I have some stories for you!

Story 1 - At girls camp we had a young women with celiac disease and a diminished mental capacity where she had the capabilities of a young child. It was known that if she ate gluten, she would probably have an accident. It was the last night of camp and the meal was brought in by ward members. All the food prior to this had been taken care of by the stake who was actually really good about handling allergies. I asked the YW president if any of the food was safe for this girl. She absolutely did not care, did not have an answer, and blew me off. They did not prepare any food for her. I was livid. I ended up going back to the stake and the women there pulled some leftovers out of the fridge for this girl to eat.

Story 2 - Fast forward a few years and now my daughter with celiac is going to girls camp. At this point, I am no longer a believer, but I went to make sure my daughter had safe food. Another girl in the ward had a wide variety of food allergies, including a lethal allergy to nuts. Her mom went to camp too. Our kids got together to prep all their food prior to camp and we were told that we would have access to ice each day to keep their food cold. We ended up having to fight for ice and there was resentment because the other girls had warm drinking water as a result. It sucks to have warm water in the summer, but this had all been agreed upon prior to camp and this was all the food these girls had for the week.

On the last morning of camp, we went to get the ice we needed for our food. We saw the YW president pouring the last of the ice into her drink cooler. It all froze into a lump so it poured out at once and broke apart onto the picnic table. She closed her cooler and walked away and we had to pick ice up off the table to put in our cooler. It was risky, but it was our only choice since it was 110 degrees outside.

Story 3 - As an angry exmo, I was asked to attend Trek to feed all the kids with allergies. My two kids with celiac were attending and I agreed to go for their well-being. When I arrived, I was told that two kids with almond allergies had joined our group as their grandparents were in the ward. The woman in charge of food lamented that she could no longer pack the almond butter she bought in the lunch coolers. No biggie.

Towards the end of camp, I think she lost her mind. She told me that she had packed the almond butter for the lunch that day because the kids needed to grow up and learn to handle their allergy like adults. Ma'am, we are in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming with no medical facilities and you are going to put a known allergen in a lunch???? We had a doctor with us and I told him what she had done. He jumped into action and removed all the almond butter.

I don't know what it is about these people to make them care so little. Part of me thinks they get overwhelmed and tired and stop caring out of necessity.

Parents need to know that no one will actually take care of their children and they are at risk every time they are sent to a church camp.

Jk. They probably could.

Just capitalizing on any chance I get to dress as least Mormon-y as possible these days.

To the women taught we could be walking pornography, endowed with the power from on high to control the thoughts and actions of men:

Fuck
That
Shit.

Our shoulders and legs and stomachs and clavicles deserve to be seen and shown and treasured and valued exactly as much as we do or do not wish. This decision, of displaying skin in celebration of our bodies? May it forevermore be ours and ours alone.

“My body may be a temple but I am the god to whom it is devoted. Do not presume to tell me how I may decorate my altar.”

(Edit: Reddit. I beg of you. Please install the feature to edit post titles, at least once, after they are posted. “ . . . they MAY take our [shoulders]. MAY.”)

I was born a Mormon and raised by hardcore Mormon parents. I play along, going to church and mutual because I know if I refuse they'll just make my life even more miserable. But one day I was in priesthood class and someone was teaching a lesson I didn't even bother to listen to. I wasn't acting rude or mean I was simply just quiet the entire time because I genuinely had nothing to say about the lesson. My bishop asked all of us what we thought about the lesson and I just shrugged saying, "It was alright" this made my Bishop frown slightly and later that day my parents sat me down and asked me if I believed in the gospel. I was confused, I played along going to church every Sunday, going to mutual and seminary what did I do wrong? Until I realized my damn bishop apparently told my parents I was bored in class and was worried about my faith. Somehow being quiet and not adding anything to the discussion made my Bishop wonder if I was unfaithful, he's not wrong I don't believe in the church but I found it so stupid that he would tell my parents that there was something wrong with me, cause I said the lesson was "alright". I thought doing the bare minimum was fine but no! Apparently I have to be a goody too shoes Mormon boy to satisfy my bishop and parents. I kinda wanted to vent and know what you guys did in situations like these.

https://www.kuer.org/

This is an interesting article about the church rebranding of their name.

I was just reading something and it got me thinking about the few things that we were allowed to do as kids but weren’t supposed to tell anyone in church about. My grandmother (who I grew up with) was an absolute true believer and super Mormon. We followed all of the basic rules with the exception of a couple of Words of Wisdom guidelines. My grandmother was diabetic, so fast Sunday was out. Which meant we could all skip it. Granny loved her Tab, which was a diet soda with major caffeine. Again, it was hard to find diet soda that she liked, and so her medical condition allowed it. The rest of us drinking diet Mountain Dew was therefore allowed. This was the seventies, water was not a beverage anyone considered 😂

There’s one more that isn’t so much a rule as it just seemed to me at the time to be completely hypocritical, especially since I wasn’t allowed to go watch the movie Grease when it came out in the theaters. I did see it, but that’s not the point. I had a strict bedtime, so that Granny could stay up and watch Benny Hill. Granny immigrated from England when she was fifteen, and I’m sure it made her feel closer to her birthplace. However, Benny Hill often had women in bikinis and sometimes topless. It was just a lot of misogynistic jokes, and sometimes actually funny stuff too. Now it’s funny to think about, but got me wondering, what kinds of things were you guys allowed to do growing up that were not exactly approved by the Church?

The first article in my NPR daily digest email this morning.

advice/vent post

it's going to be very long, so I appreciate anyone who will take the time to read this and help me. I struggle with being concise. I've been in the shadows of this reddit so this is my first post on here

also I'm not sure how long I'll keep the post up (can i edit it? delete it? not sure) because I'm always anxious that someone will recognize my situation and know I asked for help. I'm paranoid haha

I'm 19f, and I've been pimo for a few years now. I'm starting my second year of college soon, and I've had my doubts since sophomore year of high school, and my junior/senior year is when I stood firm on the realization that I didn't believe in the church, and by extension, god.

The situation with my boyfriend is what I really need advice on. I had hinted at my faith crisis a few times, but I finally faced it and told him the gist of why I no longer believed in the early summer before we split ways for college/mission, and I was pretty adamant that, although I will continue to follow the standards of the church (for my own reasons), I for sure wouldn't be attending church while I'm at college, and I no longer strictly identified myself with the church. I thought it was okay because he didn't show it at the time, but it was pretty heartbreaking, although he didn't react much then and I didn't know until now how much it had initially affected him. He's almost halfway through his 2yr mission, which is exciting! for the first half of the year, we had the underlying wedge between us. Around the beginning of this year, I finally took the time to describe all the main reasons I didn't believe, and to my relief he not only already knew about the issues I had (polygamy, sexism, racism, basically all the stuff in the gospel topic essays) but he also completely understood why I struggled to believe so much. he was more open about the undeniable circumstances in his life that has kept him on the path, despite all his struggles. he admires my stubbornness to question everything and never blindly follow something. he even said that he often wonders how women can believe in the church, and of course he doesn't agree with how the church has conducted itself historically.

obviously it's relieving to hear that he isn't the type of guy to try to defend the bad stuff, but I was also scared that I would "lead him astray." I don't care what religion he was, but I would hate to be the cause of him going though all I went through, while on his mission, even if it means we got the difference in religion to work through lol. ofc I selfishly wouldn't mind if he decided to leave, but I always want what makes him the happiest, as he does for me.

all this to say, through the difference in beliefs and the distance, we couldn't be closer. I've loved him since middle school, and this is the only issue we've ever had. I'm immensely grateful to be with someone who has shown time and time again how much he loves me and how good of a person he is, and this is coming from someone who is extremely cautious and critical.

but yeah, the issue is he wants a temple marriage, duh. I understand the importance it has in his life and religion. and honestly, I wouldn't mind at all going through the motions so he can get that. the issue with that is I'm going to have to go through a few more years of being PIMO, since we'll be in different states for college (more long distance sobbb) (also we refuse to speedrun into marriage so it will be yearss), to make our families and wards go along with me being able to go to the temple. I hateeee lying, which is one of the main reasons I don't believe anymore, because of all the lies the church has in its history and doctrine, so I feel awfully hypocritical. as many issues as I have with the church and its leaders, I know so many wonderful, genuine mormons and I feel like its disrespectful to fake it. I haven't been to the temple in a year. although I follow the word of wisdom pretty well because of health reasons, I still dont check enough boxes to be "worthy" because of my lack of belief. he also really believes in the power of prayer, and again given his experiences, I'm glad he does, but it just doesn't do it for me. I can't believe in a loving god, and no amount of scripture reading and praying is going to change that. he's always told me that he'll love me no matter how much I believe, he just wants a temple marriage. maybe its the trauma with growing up in a church thats lied to me all my life, but I can't help but be scared that he's too hopeful on the power of god and faith that he thinks I'll change

he knows I'll never be a full believing mormon, but given how things have gone, I don't see myself ever believing in god, either, for many of the same reasons.

The church hasn't been central in our relationship, at least from a mutual standpoint. It's why I took so long to "come out" to him, because despite hanging out at church functions and camps a ton, we really didn't get into deep conversations about religion that often, so I didn't know a lot of his opinions regarding the church. after his mission, I know the church will be even more important to him so I fear it might be more important for him to have it be a part of our relationship, especially when marriage eventually becomes a possibility

I'm going to stick it out for a while longer, and just see how things go. but any advice would go a long way. has anyone been successful in an exmo-mormon marriage? and what happens when kids get thrown into that equation? is it easy coexisting with someone who has such different beliefs when you have none?

Y'all my dad watched this movie called "The Amish Stud" and the plot revolves around a man pressuring his wife to break Amish rules around sex (specifically oral sex). He started going off about how weird and restrictive it is and that, "at least the church isn't that bad" 😐 I mentioned the letter and he tried brushing it off with classics like, "well, it was part of the culture" and "maybe it was just taught incorrectly on the local level".

Does anyone know where it could be found on the church's website, if at all? I thought I'd check here first before I waste my time since it's such a maze.

I was able to find the original document online, but you know how these things go. It's not a credible source unless it's on the (definitely impartial) church's website 🤪

I don’t want to cause family drama so I figured I would share and vent here….

I attended a family reunion recently. All of my family besides my husband and myself are still very active members. A family member shared this story about one of our ancestors.

My great great great grandfather was a polygamist. He and his 3 wives left salt lake and moved to California during the gold rush. Brigham Young commanded the saints to come back to salt lake. My great great great grandmother left her husband and his other wives to “follow the prophet” and came back to salt lake where she later remarried. Out of the three wives, her line has significantly more descendants.

My family member then went on to say that it was because she followed the prophet that her line is so large. Queue eye roll.

I really wanted to comment that I guess my line is just going to dry up then because I won’t be following any prophet anytime soon. Anyway, just overall frustrating that they talk about the church all the time and have little to no regard to how that impacts those of us that are no longer members.

Also, why the obsession with having a lot of descendants? I really do not care if I have direct descendants in a few generations.