r/YouShouldKnow • u/WalkCareful7005 • 4d ago
Travel YSK: In most places, if a debt collector contacts you, you can request written verification of the debt, and they legally have to prove you owe it before they can keep collecting.
Why YSK: Debt collectors buy old, sometimes expired, sometimes flat-out wrong debts for pennies and bank on people paying out of fear without ever checking if the debt is real or even theirs.
In many countries (this is well established in the US under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and similar protections exist elsewhere) you can send a written request for validation. If they can't produce proof that the debt is valid and yours, they're not allowed to continue collecting or report it. Never confirm or "make a small payment" on a debt you don't recognize, because in some places that can restart the clock on an otherwise time-barred debt. Get everything in writing. Flag: exact rights vary by country and state, so check your local rules — but the principle of demanding validation is broadly true and worth knowing.
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u/rywitt87 4d ago
Especially around the 2008 US financial shenanigans era. Bad debt was being bought up, and changing hands rapidly.
A family member I co-signed for declared bankruptcy and left me saddled with a lot of debt I couldn't pay. I talked to a lawyer, and only wound up paying some legal fees after the debt collectors could not prove I owed anything.
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 4d ago
I would show up at that family members house for a little “chat”
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u/ThaneVim 4d ago
I want you to think about what that would actually accomplish. If the person doesn't have the money, you're still in the same situation, but now likely with an assault charge. So now you have criminal court proceedings on your plate.
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 4d ago
When did I say assault?
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u/ReallyPoorStudent 4d ago
I’m trying to understand what you insinuate when you say chat in quotations
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u/YouSnuffTheBlaze 4d ago
Maybe he switched to French and he’s going to show up with a little cat?
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u/ThaneVim 4d ago
I didn't claim you did. I said likely an assault charge. What you would have done in that situation, you left intentionally vague. So I used a similar vagueness. Legally, at least in the US, "assault" isn't even physical; that's battery. Assault is the threat of it.
I'm also not charging you, I'm asking you reflect on what your would-be intentions are, and what those could lead to.
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 4d ago
All I said was a little “chat”
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u/KylarBlackwell 4d ago
Im sure the judge and jury would love that youre treating them like morons and totally find in your favor if you ever actually told somebody you were going to have a "chat" with them
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u/JoeBuyer 4d ago
Yep, I used this on a debt many years ago. I got court papers so I did a ton of research and went down to the local law help place. Person I worked with initially told me I’d probably have to pay. I told him all about needing to prove the debt but I didn’t know how to file the papers. So he filed them and the debt collector dropped it.
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u/HeloRising 4d ago
It helps to look up your exact state law regarding debt and what they're legally allowed to go after because that does vary quite a bit state-by-state.
That said, most states have robust enough protections for people in debt where you have a lot more power than you think you do.
A good example, I had zero health insurance when I was in my 20's (I was very, very broke) and I ended up in the ER with a bill of over $4,000. I was living on less than $1,000/month in Los Angeles, there was absolutely no way I could pay that. I sent in paperwork for charity relief and never heard anything so I'm guessing it was denied.
Fastforward about a year and I start getting calls from collection agents. By now the total had climbed to $10,000 with penalties and fees, I told them they could throw as many zeroes onto it as they wanted I was too broke and my monthly payments just to stay ahead of the interest was 40% of what I made in a month. There was no way I could pay anything.
They threatened to tank my credit score which was amusing because my credit score was already the numeric equivalent of a pair of raccoons fighting over a half eaten McRib, can't sink a ship that's already at the bottom. They threatened to take me to court and get a judgement to which I told them to go for it, a judgement doesn't put money in my pocket and it'll cost them more than they'll ever get out of me. I was living in California at the time which has very good protection for people in debt, I owned nothing so there was nothing for them to take and I made too little money for them to garnish my wages. Effectively all they could do was call and yell at me.
After about two years they stopped calling and the debt disappeared. I think it was up to like $40,000 by the end.
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u/pandasweatshirt 4d ago
ALSO never pay a collection unless they agree to also delete it from your credit report.
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u/Coreoreo 3d ago
Collection agencies/banks/law firms can't just delete it, they have a legal obligation to report an accurate status. If you pay them a satisfactory amount they have to mark it paid (in full or settled), they can't just delete it like it was never there. If it was fraud they can report as much which may have the effect of getting it removed but that's still different from demanding they "delete it"
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u/darkoj- 4d ago
I get calls from debt collectors 1-3 times a day over various medical debts ranging from $100 to a couple thousand, all concerning rather benign issues. They've been calling me for years. I only pay what's asked of me up front to initialize services, and let em kick rocks for anything they want afterwards. My insurance pays em good and well, and given that combined insurance premiums paid by me and my employers over my time as a functional adult exceed $100,000, I believe I've adequately satisfied my ethical duty for my financial responsibilities in this contrived and dysfunctional medical system.
My credit score is 800.
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u/Robespierre1113 4d ago
This is the way. Two insurances when I was 25 and needed a CT scan.
1st said we'll cover half 2nd said we'll cover the other half (UHC)
Went and had CT done. Week later. BCBS paid their half, UHC refused to pay because "BCBS didnt pay exactly half", denied my appeal and sent me to collections.
6 years later havent touched it at all bud and everytime they call i say take it up with UHC. You pre-approved the procedure then retroactively declined it due to something out of my control, im one human against a machine of HMOs and Red tape
Also a CT half paid shouldnt still cost 11,000$ , I can get one for my pet half that cost
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u/a_hammerhead_worm 4d ago edited 4d ago
I might be wrong, but isnt medical debt the only type of debt that cant affect your credit score? If so, that works for medical debt but basically no other types of debt
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u/Aviyan 4d ago
It won't bring down your credit score but there will still be some mark that says you have a delinquent payment. Companies will use that against you.
For example, I have a $30 medical bill that went into collections because we moved houses and never got the bill. This was a few years back. This year I switched to another phone carrier and wanted to get the free phone promotion. I have 800+ credit but they still required me to put a 50% down payment.
This comes even faster Bidens Admin passed a law that says unpaid medical bills under a certain amount can't affect your credit.
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u/Robespierre1113 4d ago
No idea. I suspect this never hit my credit because one side knows they're responsible and they're trying to offload it on me.
I suspect its like that with tons of other procedures. There's nothing barring these companies from pulling a "Well we pre-approved a 30 minute procedure and you took 31 minutes so.. The patient is now responsible" type crap.
I have plenty of these stories from my life.
We had Kaiser when I was a kid and needed surgery to correct a hernia. Pre approved by the insurance. The mesh I needed wasnt available day of, different was used but "Oh no.. we dont cover THAT type of mesh... tee hee"
Im just over it. As the person i replied to posted; ive done my ethical responsibility. I pay my co payments, I pay my insurance costs. I pay bills im actually responsible for. We need laws to make insurance companies actually liable.
From someone who's in medicine also; we really need to have a discussion about peer to peer calls too after the UHC CEO. I don't think practitioners making medical decisions on behalf of patients they havent seen should be allowed to remain anonymous.
When you recommend a NSAID instead of corrective surgery to a cancer patient, the patient should be able to hold the insurer liable.
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u/retire_dude 3d ago
The current administration in there love for the people of the United States has removed the rule preventing medical debt from affecting your credit score. They also have stripped the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau of funding and fired just about everyone. This was the government office protecting you from abusive credo tors and collection agencies.
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u/TimSylvester_ 3d ago
For probably 15 years now, I've established an up-front cost for any medical service I accept, and paid at the point of service. Anything they bill afterwards is disregarded. Most places are fine with this. Some act like the very idea is incomprehensible to them.
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 4d ago
You have a right to request they do not contact you regularly except for changes or dismissal of the debt. Get written proof that you sent it (whether online or through a certified letter receipt requested) and they can be sued and/or fined if they violate that.
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u/billwood09 4d ago edited 4d ago
And a lot of the time if you demand receipts, if it’s a smaller amount they just quit trying and it drops off of your credit too.
There was a $700 collection I had that I demanded my rights under the FDCPA for and they didn’t provide it, I called “customer service” for the collection agency and asked multiple times for them to escalate it to one of their attorneys, and instead they just dropped the entire thing
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u/Faelwolf 3d ago
And in the US, make sure they're licensed to collect in the state you live in. I had a debt collector come after me for a $20 debt I never owed, but they were from New York, and not licensed in my state. When it was all said and done, they paid me $1000 to settle out of court! :)
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u/Bob_A_Feets 4d ago
Asking them to validate a debt can restart the clock on said debt.
Ignore them. The best answer is to always ignore them. If they are gonna sue you then they already have what they need to validate the debt. Everything else is just them fishing.
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is incorrect if you mean the US
"(c) Running of reporting period
(1) In general
The 7-year period referred to in paragraphs (4) and (6) of subsection (a) shall begin, with respect to any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internally or by referral to a third party, whichever is earlier), charged to profit and loss, or subjected to any similar action, upon the expiration of the 180-day period beginning on the date of the commencement of the delinquency which immediately preceded the collection activity, charge to profit and loss, or similar action."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1681c
The "clock" on the debt referring to the seven-year (or seven 1/2 years) period is based on the original date of delinquency.
There is no clock on how long they can attempt to collect, but you can always tell them not to contact you.
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u/big_rhonda432 4d ago
Well if the debt is valid and if you care about your credit score you should not ignore. Your only hope then is request to validate and hope that they cant.
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u/TracyF2 4d ago
You should never care about your credit score unless you either have a bunch of money or are not going to ask for a loan any time soon.
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u/Several-Action-4043 4d ago
Not really. Something you do now can affect your score for 7 to 10 years. It's always good to be responsible and pay your bills.
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u/TracyF2 4d ago
We are not discussing a bankruptcy that can follow you for ten years. If you have to file for bankruptcy then you shouldn’t have been borrowing anything to begin with. There’s a medical debt in my name from 2021, the hospital bill department failed to charge my insurance multiple times thus leading to it going to collections. I kept talking to my insurance and the hospital, even had a three way phone call with the both of them. Nothing worked and it will fall off in a couple of more years. I’ve had to borrow equity after 2021 and was asked about the collections, I told them the story, told them who my insurance was, and was still approved.
I’m not saying to not pay your bills, that’s asking for legal trouble. Damn the credit score if you find yourself in legal trouble because you’ll have bigger problems. What I am saying is if you are rich or aren’t planning on borrowing in the near future then your credit score won’t matter much.
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u/l0stIzalith 4d ago
Protip: you can ignore them without any legal repercussions. DO NOT PAY DEBT COLLECTORS.
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u/tinker8311 4d ago
They don't report it to your credit?
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u/m0viestar 4d ago
This is terrible advice lol. They can also garnish your wages
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u/burnt00toast 4d ago
Not if the debt is so old they can't legally collect on it. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to garnish wages. It rarely happens even with legit debt.
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u/m0viestar 4d ago
Not in every case. Unpaid taxes, alimony(in some cases),child support, federal student loans, can all be garnished by a default judgement. You wouldn't even have to be notified until the garnishment happens or show up to court to defend yourself. There's not many hoops for them to jump through for those types of debts.
Please stop giving bad financial advice.
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u/fuckiforgotmyaccount 4d ago
I mean, they probably need a judgment against you before they can garnish, which involves service and proper notice, so a garnishment likely isn’t gonna just appear one day. You’d have a little bit of a heads up. You are right though, not that many hoops to jump through.
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u/m0viestar 4d ago
They will just show up one day if you ignore it. Certaint types of debt as I mentioned do not require you to acknowledge it or show up in court it will automatically start garnishing your wages.
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u/fuckiforgotmyaccount 3d ago
I think we’re saying the same thing. The initial action would require a summons. By the time you’re actually getting sued for debts, it is time to settle if possible.
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u/PornoPaul 3d ago
No, hes saying they do not require a summons. Student loans debt, if payments are not obtained, but they find out where you work, can be garnished without a court order or summons. Or at least that was the rule a few years ago.
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 4d ago
You can’t ignore me buddy, I’m showing up at your house
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u/Euronomus 4d ago
Lol, so you want to watch me ignore you in person?
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 4d ago
Not gonna work with me buddy
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u/AllEncompassingThey 4d ago
Why not? You can't stop someone from ignoring you 😂
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 4d ago
I’m heading inside your house
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u/AllEncompassingThey 4d ago
I don't think he would invite you in.
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u/AnotherCrazyRedditor 3d ago
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 3d ago
Don’t even think about it
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u/Ok-Expression4970 4d ago
I was called to court and the "debt" was dismissed when their attorney had no evidence. It was a collector that paid pennies on the dollar and were trying to get the whole amount.
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u/OrganizationInside14 4d ago
There is also another problem with collectors. One contacted me about a credit card balance for a card that I had never had. I told them I do not now nor have I ever had an account with this bank. Send me a copy of the original contract/bill.
Here's the issue: collectors regularly sell debt back and forth to each other. After nearly 3 years of giving the same reply to around 7 different collectors they finally gave up and stopped harassing me. It's annoying, and it might take some time, but stand up for yourself and eventually they'll give up.
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u/blacksoxing 4d ago
Just did this a few months ago as I got tagged for an internet bill from a deceased family member that I was the estate of. Had no idea they had it in my name. I kept getting emails of the bill as they didn’t have my actual address. Sent them a certified letter and…never heard of them again. Emails stopped about 3 days after learning they received the letter I sent 😆
Protect yourself everyone as they buy these for Pennie’s on the dollar to get sometimes the full amount owed out of who they’re nagging
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u/Several-Action-4043 4d ago
Yup. I had a debt collector coming after me for a phone bill I hadn't paid like 11 years ago. I just sent a letter saying, show me a contact with my signature on it and I'll pay up. It was off my credit score within a week.
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u/Xillyfos 3d ago
In Denmark, the state itself can claim you have debt without any proof whatsoever, and they will just keep adding interest if you don't pay. Denmark is a banana republic, just without bananas. It's arguably one of the dumbest countries on Earth, and most people here pride themselves of being dumb.
But it used to be a great country before racism and right-wing stupidity took over.
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 4d ago
Just for reference - in the US, nothing you or they can do (beyond being in delinquency in the first place) restarts any clock. It's set at the time of first delinquency or 180 days after.
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u/TrollAccount17 4d ago
PCP office sent me to collections for 8 dollars. So I sent a certified letter for 6 to ensure it is money well spent on their end, they must sign for and respond with an itemized certified list from the office that sent me for less than the cost of a sandwich. Fuck debt collectors. And PCPs I guess. If they actually respond, I'll just have to send more letters I guess. Good luck in small claims for 8 bucks lol
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u/retire_dude 3d ago
My experience has been they hang up when you ask for the name of the collections company. The try to keep the company secret until they have your payment information. The spoof the phone numbers so it's impossible to google the number. A lot of these scumbag companies are in Upstate NY.
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u/Capital-Form-3495 3d ago
There's a little loophole I may have used to help qualify for a mortgage. Essentially, I had a bunch of medical debt. Not a crazy amount, but enough that I didn't want to blow the money I had saved on it when it could go towards, you know, a fucking house. So my broker told me to dispute the debts. When I asked why, they said it was because the debt collector wouldn't be able to provide documentation because of HIPAA and that would be that. It would fall off my report and boost my score. It worked, and now I have a house.
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u/TracyF2 4d ago
Don’t even contact the collection agency. Contacting them even to just say hi will restart your clock.
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 4d ago
It does not restart any clock in the US, not sure about other places.
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u/TracyF2 4d ago
Where in your link does it support your statement?
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u/Sweaty-Willingness27 3d ago
Section (c)
The 7-year period referred to in paragraphs (4) and (6) of subsection (a) shall begin, with respect to any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internally or by referral to a third party, whichever is earlier), charged to profit and loss, or subjected to any similar action, upon the expiration of the 180-day period beginning on the date of the commencement of the delinquency which immediately preceded the collection activity, charge to profit and loss, or similar action.
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u/SuspiciousCricket654 4d ago
Imagine going into the debt collection business. You have to be the lowest of lowlifes.
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u/gr8bacon 2d ago
I always wonder about the collections people who leave me voicemails from time to time. Like, what's their life like? I always hope they move on to something more fulfilling in their careers.
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u/Framits 3d ago
Remember, they do not need to prove it to you. They need to prove it to the court system. In some states it can be as little as a printed statement of the current owed balance and testimony from an employee that the computer that generated it is accurate. Saw it in one of those sovereign citizen courtroom fail videos, but I can't find it now.
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u/ManagementOk1651 3d ago
Yes this. I had a debt collector calling me about an " unpaid loan" - asked him to send me a letter explaining what was owed and i would contact them when received, never heard from them agin.
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u/BeatsMeByDre 4d ago
Someone said they just sell the debt to another collector to keep it from expiring? Sounds like total bullshit. Ignore all calls you don't recognize.
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u/TracyF2 4d ago
Collection agencies will sell the debt to another if they feel they won’t make their money back. Them selling your debt to someone else does not “keep it from expiring”. In most states, the expiration date is seven(7) years from when the debt first went to collections, no matter who currently owns your debt.
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u/Zealousideal_Crab_36 4d ago
Okay and then if they prove you owe it? lol
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u/Schmancer 4d ago
Then you pay your debt?
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u/PornoPaul 3d ago
Except there are tons of people in here saying even then dont. Which, depending on the kind of debt, it doesnt always go away.
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u/Schmancer 3d ago
Yeah, that’s not a hot tip, that’s just defaulting on a repayment contract with the original lender and dodging the new owner of the debt afterward
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u/PornoPaul 3d ago
Pretty much. Its just mind boggling that there are people claiming you dont have to pay it back. You absolutely do, in 99% of cases.
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u/ChainsawSoundingFart 4d ago
So this tip is worthless
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u/Bleaker82 4d ago
No. Lots of medical debt can be hard to prove.
I was handling the estate of a friend who had a bunch of cancer treatments and billing was a mess. One bill went to collections. It was about $2,000. I sent a validation request letter asking for an itemized bill and for whatever reason — maybe HIPAA — they were unable to produce it. They never contacted me again.
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u/TrollAccount17 4d ago
Nah, fuck debt collectors. Got sent for 8 bucks. So now I'm dragging out their legal obligations to respond and prove it. It was an error but they still send nasty ass letters about it. SO now I'm doing my own legal work to waste their time. Don't lick boots.
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u/eitherrideordie 4d ago
Apparently if a debt is not yours or your unsure, even making a small payment some countries will use that to say the debt is now yours as you've taken action to own the debt.