Hi all

Just finished reading the first two books. Thought they were really cool! But I was curious, were we supposed to be surprised regarding the identity of Moneta? There are a couple of bits in the second book where her "real" name is left out, which seemed to be setting up for a big reveal.

But.. The book only has 2 characters that it could reasonably place in that position, and one of them had already been designated as "the mother", so there's really no surprise there?

I made the Shrike as my, like, 4th mii in Tomodachi life. I since got a stylus. Enjoy! lol (I do feel like they don't quite look like the shrike but I really didn't know what to do...)

I started looking up pictures of the ships and characters to get a visual representation and now here I am. Should have known there was a sub dedicated to this novel.

Can’t believe at 50+ years of age I’m just finding out about it.

Glad to be here.

Kinda reminds me of the Shrike

Found a portrait drawing of John Keats and decided to try drawing him myself :)

Keats has always this very melancholic and profound look to himself. His portrait pulls you in and makes you feel awe and sadness, much like his poetry...

The fact that he's a real bridge between our reality and the hyperion cantos makes him such a special figure, blurring the lines between reality and fiction.

Please no spoiler! I've just finished Sol's tale and am pressing on with baited breath, desperately hoping Rachel's story ends happily (or at least not in complete despair).

This is a bit of a read but I would love to have anyone else’s thoughts as no one else I know has read this series. I read the first 3 last summer, couldn’t continue, and then found RoE in a bookstore and took it as my sign, because I DID want to know how this ended. TLDR at the bottom.

Okay so… I loved the first 2 books of the series. I thought they were brilliant, that they built mystery incredibly well, and had an incredibly satisfying conclusion and series of reveals. I will never forget how I felt reading Paul Duré’s story for the first time, or the Scholar’s Tale. I loved the world-building and the many factions and their various motives. I loved the TechnoCore and talking to Ummon as well.

Endymion was…. eh. The best parts of it were de Soya’s chapters, and I was pretty icked out knowing that this romance was going to pan out this way. There were enjoyable moments but it’s definitely my least favorite of the Cantos, though.

Rise of Endymion, however, was such a mixed-bag of a read for me. I was immediately gripped at the start of the novel by the intrigue within the Church, and all of the new characters and motives being introduced. The worlds Raul traveled to were actually really fun and interesting to read about. I particularly loved the gas world of clouds.

I also really enjoyed a lot of Tien Shan, but it really dragged on and could have been trimmed down. I did not care about all of these characters and glossed over many of their names and tiny facts, except for the ones around the Dalai Lama. The cast just felt needlessly bloated for a long time, but I get he was trying to make these connections for Aenea across the galaxy. I enjoyed reading Aenea’s little testimonies, but I also felt that the information inside of them could have been delivered a bit better and more organically instead of pages of info-dumps.

But, the romance… so icky. Raul calling her kiddo the whole time is just disgusting to me, and he often views her sexually, then immediately reminisces on their time together when he was her adult protector and she was TWELVE YEARS OLD. Ew ew ew. It was such an ick for the first half of the book for me, and I did zoom through their “lovemaking” scenes in the middle of Tien Shan. I hated reading that.

Also, side note. The two biggest “romances” or sexual escapades in this series are Rachel and Aenea, both of which the objects of their affections (Kassad and Raul) were full adults while they were children or even an infant. WEIRD. Also along these lines, why was Rachel here? Trying to reconcile Rachel’s depictions in this book, in the first two as an archaeologist, and also as Moneta is just bizarre. I didn’t think Moneta made a lot of sense in the first half, and she makes even less with the full context of the Cantos.

Anyways, back to Rise of Endymion. Another thing that bothered me about this book, and the series as a whole, was the focus on poets, writers, architects, scientists, and generally very influential people (all men) from the 1800s and the 1900s. I get that a lot of this is likely an expression of Simmons’ special interests, but it made the world feel small. I remember at the end of Hyperion, when the Consul remarks on the Hegemony’s need to relive and recreate Earth culture and ways of living, it sort of clicked for me. But, as the series continued, and all these characters from these myriad worlds a thousand years later reference important people from our time… it just didn’t make sense. It always took me out of it, and Aenea even acknowledges again that this is a thing in their cultures idealizing Old Earth, but it almost felt like a retroactive justification on Simmons’ part than an intentional part of the world-building. I’m not sure though, and would love to hear other thoughts.

This book also retcons a few things from the first two, like the Core’s many factions or Moneta, or Het Masteen’s fate, or the Shrike being based on Kassad? What. But, ultimately, I was able to just accept these and move on, though it was strange. I don’t think Kassad’s or Rachel’s changes here improved their stories, but actually detracted. The rest is fine.

For most of the book, I thought Aenea was okay. She is just generally kind and wise, and aware of things beyond the reader’s (Raul’s) POV. I thought she was almost a stand-in for an ideal lover for the author, and Raul a bit of a self-insert.

Raul as a protagonist is not great. He is largely a reactive character, meant to serve as a vessel to see Aenea through. He is also incredibly whiny and somewhat clueless, but also weirdly smart in certain areas and able to memorize the whole Cantos. Okay, sure. He ultimately acknowledges how he is more of a bystander and less of a bodyguard, though, and I really appreciated that moment. It made me feel like his role as a viewpoint character was more intentional.

Despite all of this, though, I kept reading. Something about these mysteries kept me steadily engaged, and although the characters weren’t great to me, their ideas and themes really resonated with me. I loved when they got to the Startree, and wish that we had stayed there a bit longer. The other lifeforms were interesting, and I wish we could have explored those more as well.

The ending though, was beautiful. Everything felt very earned and I loved reading Raul’s realization of how love is everywhere, and our connection to place and each other allows us to connect with the Void Which Binds. Martin’s comment on how artists tap into this all the time touched me as well.

And, the final reveals were actually awesome. All of the foreshadowing was leading to Aenea being with Raul again, but I didn’t piece it together and I was actually surprised and felt really happy for them… despite also being disgusted at their romance? It’s weird, I guess I got worn down and accepted that she was sort of already a fully-formed adult/being from before she was born. I’ve read my fair share of Dune so I’m used to this concept, but it was just pretty icky in here. Please stop calling her kiddo.

A. Bettik’s reveal was also amazing, though, I want to know more of his race’s motivations, culture, and powers. Are they god-like, existing in the Void? I don’t know, and I suppose it is supposed to be that way. But, I wanted to know why they kidnapped Old Earth, the meaning of their “experiments” and how they could move it.

I still don’t understand why the Nemes constructs turned on the church, more specifically why the TechnoCore switched allegiances in the story and attacked the Cardinal (Inquisitor? I can’t remember). Also, is the Core still a threat to humanity? Who knows.

Also also, Dan Simmons was definitely into some outdoorsman sporty things this time around. What was up with that? Still fun to read but, kayaking, paragliding, climbing? It was a weird series of events haha.

TLDR: I loved this story, ultimately, and this huge, sprawling universe he has made. It was a fun ride, though the first two books are definitely the best. Aenea and Raul’s relationship can be very weird and gross, I wish it was different, but ultimately I moved past it to see the interesting storytelling and motivations she possessed. The book could have been 200 pages shorter with the Tien Shan sections and info dumps about men from our era of Earth. But, the ending was PEAK and really resonated with the overall themes of shared humanity across the entire Cantos. Solid 4 stars.

I've been reading Hyperion for the first time and enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would. A few day's ago, I got to Sol's recounting of his life, and I've found myself absolutely emotionally wrecked by his story and what Rachel and her parents went through. I got as far as when Sol speaks to the Rabbi for the first time about his dream when I had to put the book down for bed. For me, I think I'm pained at the thought of horrific rediscovery Rachel has to go through day after day after day, the fact that Sol and Sarai have to re-live and comfort their daughter through that trauma Rachel faces each day, and then the slow deconstruction of a beautiful, flourishing, promising life.

I so desperately want to finish the story and the rest of the book, because the whole thing is so good, and I desperately hope that Rachel will be healed of her curse. I'm too afraid to pick the book back up, though, because I know there's going to be more gut-wrenching pain to get through, and based on the book so far, I'm guessing that this isn't going to be a story with an ending where everyone has their wishes fulfilled and live happily on.

As an update, I finished the chapter just a minute ago. All I can do is sit alone and sob.

I finished Hyperion 2 the last month and now I'm halfway of Hyperion Endymion

The first 2 books I loved them, S tier books. The world building and the story was amazing but I feel like I am not enjoying Endymion as much as the first 2 books. I was just expection more Hyperion, more world building with so many crazy things happening but instead Endymion feels more like a "normal" book you'd find in a bookstore with a more linear, simple plot.

I'm not saying it's bad, I do like it. It's just that I would be enjoying it more if I wasn't expecting the same

Kwatz!

Immediately made me think of The Shrike

I'm currently on chapter 42 of Endymion so I'm not finished yet, but I can't be the only that thinks this book is a drag except for the sections where De Soya is the protagonist right? Raul is such a boring protagonist, and most of his chapters are very passive with him just letting a child and an android do most of the heavy lifting (Mare Infinitus is the first time Raul takes control of a situation) while he complains non stop. He is one dimensional as fuck and the parts of the book where he keeps writing "BUT I WASN'T ATTRACTED TO THE CHILD" are so strange and off putting. I felt very strange reading about the warmth that his skin received from the child's skin when he almost froze to death knowing damn well that they are going to end up having a sexual relationship in the future. Plain weird if you ask me.

On the other hand, the GOAT himself, Father Captain De Soya has the BEST parts of the book. Every time one of his chapters start I sit up on my chair because he has the best plot points. He actually grows and changes as a character so much, with his decision making and thought process going through a very realistic evolution. The path he must take of death and resurrection to compete his goal is something that disturbed me deeply when I began reading it. I really cannot wait to see where his character goes.

Raul... yeah I don't give a fuck about him honestly which is a shame

I have been really enjoying this series the last month or so, I think book one and two might be one of the most perfect stories I have read. I finished book three earlier this week and have started the fourth, still loving the story so much.

But I just have this constant nag in my mind over this weird ass dynamic he set up with Aenea and Raul. Obviously it is established pretty early that they're going to have a relationship, and that's weird enough on its own with Raul being literally 16 years older than her, but then add in her little comments about them eventually sharing a shower and all the other little hints- it's jarring as hell.

I withheld judgement until the end of book 3 because I thought "surely he's not going that direction and we are eventually going to learn Aenea is actually mentally much older than we initially thought, with Raul being suspicious of her age" but instead the explanation was more like her mind can come untethered in time and she 'remembers' the future, and it was very explicitly established that Raul thinks of her as a child and a sister.

Which sure, the 'untethered' thing does a decent enough job explaining how she came to think of him that way, but uhhhh...Raul? The dude is 16 years older than her, which is weird enough even if she was like 20, but he met her as a child and thought of her as a little sister. I keep praying there's more to learn, and surely there is, but I just don't see how any of it is going to fix my opinion of Raul unless it's still somehow my initial guess lol.

Small spoilers for first two chapters of book 4: She's 16 now at the start of this book, and it genuinely feels like Simmons is messing with me bro. How are you gonna do a whole time skip and not age her up to at least 18 before this segment of the story starts. Even at 18 I'd be uncomfortable, this shit is just so unnecessary, literally feels like the only tension added by her being this young is the weirdness of what we know her and Raul become.

I genuinely couldn't understand why I saw people say you could stop at book 2 while I was reading Endymion, but if this is really all the explanation I am getting then I think I might understand their sentiment, bc I am not putting my stamp of approval on this shit, no matter how good the story is lol.

Throughout my reading of the first two books I came across a myriad of references to artists, authors, poets and architects. Some I recognize and mostly I don’t. A notable discovery thanks To Simmons are O’Neill’s cylinder cities concept artworks, and obviously John Keats, while I am quite dense for poetry I find his interesting. I admire an author who cultivate the readers to understand his artistic perspective, and so I greatly respect Dan for this.

Every one on this sub is pretty insistent on someone creating a Hyperion movie but I believe that Endymion would be better suited.

The novel is a long adventurous chase scene which would translate well into a full length movie.
Just got to get past some of the old mythos (an example of this is how it was done with the Dune movies) and everything should be good to go.

Anyone’s thoughts?

Kiddo - if you know you know

I don't know how to process everything. But overall, it's one of the best sci-fi series that I've read.

It's insane how much emotion Simmons can put into such a universe-spanning story.

I'd probably rate the books like this:

1. Fall of Hyperion (best narrative, most action, most well-structured)

2. Hyperion (best character work and amazing mystery)

3. Endymion (insanely good world building and journey story, I never wanted the constant stream of new places to end)

4. Rise of Endymion (overall satisfying and really adds a ton of extra layers onto the universe we already have established, manages to still bring strong emotion)

People are saying this is a pre-hegira image of the star Spica as seen from Old Earth, but I'm not buying it. As a Lusian, I know my own planet when I see it!

If we could bring back a full Johnny Keats (er, I mean Dan Simmons) cybrid to write one more tale in the world of Hyperion, I would love a prequel story covering the history of the TechnoCore:

• Creation of the TechnoCore

• Schism into the Volatiles, Ultimates, and Stables

• Secession / Hegira

• Final events leading to the Hyperion crisis

Generally a prequel sounds like a surefire way to kill some of the intrigue and mystery that serves as a backdrop to the main series, but in this case the events are almost spelled out in Book 1 - primarily in the Detective's tale. I think it would be very entertaining to see how it played out in real time.

Endymion/RoE potential spoilers: I know Books 3 and 4 expand on this history as well, but it still feels "after the fact" (because it is). There would be something special about Simmons fleshing this out into a novel.

Do you have any thoughts, on this or any other unexplored areas of the lore that would have made a good novel? (Prequel, sequel, or anything)

so I am almost finished the first book (last chapter to go) - this fan cast therefore is based on the first book only. I was really inspired by some of the great dream cast posts and wanted to do my own. I originally had Sean Bean for the Consul but then saw someone say Jason Isaacs and that blew my mind. I am not sure re the two priests but def see McConaughey in one of the roles... Keen on thoughts!

Edit: for clarity, I’m not saying cast some of these people in present day - for eg. Hopkins, McConaughey, Balk, I do not see as appropriate casting as at their age today. This is a fantasy cast so ideally, they would be younger to play the roles.

I just finished Sol Winteraub's section of the book. This might be one of the most harrowing things I've ever read. I'm not a parent so I can't even begin to imagine those of you who have children felt when you read it the first time

Mind officially blown

P.S. avoid spoilers chapter 5 and forward

Hello people!

I've been in the hyperion fandom for 2 years now -or maybe more, i don't remember correctly🥹- and i'm a huge fan.

I'm 21 and Hyperion made me love Sci-Fi. This book felt like a first love. I still remember when i was at the bookshop at a random day, i saw the book, i took it and felt i need to take it home. This book made me love reading again. I remember when i first read about Silenus i didn't liked him. Then after i read his story i felt something warm and sad inside my chest and since then he is my favorite. I have a deep connection with him and since im a poet too, he inspires me a lot. Beside being a poet im also a little artist and im silently watching this platform for a year now trying to find the right time to post and today i decided it's the day.

I know this community is made out of older people or people who simply doesn't do this thing, but i hope u guys like my character🙏

I remember when i read Kassad story i felt uncomfy cause of the lot of sex, but it gave me a funny idea to make a kid. I know its probably not possible and please don't attack me. It's just a funny little character who i love and makes me feel more connected to the book

His name is Colonel Antony Kassad. He's a mix of the Shrike and Kassad. Hes a young man with a serious personality, but with a poet soul