I imagine this has been discovered and discussed but I couldn't find anything. The October 30, 1978 edition of the Auburn Journal reported how on October 22nd at 1:45 AM, Joseph DeAngelo was leaving the Auburn police station when he encountered a teenager TPing an Auburn patrol car. The kid fled when DeAngelo told him to "hold it" but it's not clear if DeAngelo chased him or if they were able to find out his identity later to give him the prowling citation.

The story is of course absurd given this kid is cited for "prowling" for carrying out a harmless prank while the man confronting him is a prolific prowler, burglar, home invader, serial rapist, and by this time triple murderer. DeAngelo had to live with that contradiction and hypocrisy in everything he did as a police officer, but there is something particularly insulting about this example given he could have easily let it go. "I committed burglaries when I was his age and now I rape and kill so this is kind of hypocritical. The kid did zero damage, just put some toilet paper on a car. I'm just going to clean it up and if anyone asks tell them some kid was messing around but he ran off before I could see him." That isn't how DeAngelo thinks, though.

Beyond that, it confirms that DeAngelo did work night shifts and was coming and going from the Auburn station in the early morning hours. It's not clear from this report whether DeAngelo was getting off his shift at this time, leaving to do some patrols, or simply going outside. I'm agnostic about whether DeAngelo actively prowled or attacked when he was on duty and lean toward him not doing that but it at least indicates he had opportunities to prowl when he was getting off work from these night shifts.

The timing is also interesting because DeAngelo had been actively prowling Concord for weeks at this time and had already carried out two attacks there on October 7th and 13th, at around 2:30 AM and 4:30 AM respectively. However, there were no other confirmed prowls or attacks in Concord and he instead attacked in San Ramon just six days after the October 22nd teen incident at around 2:30 AM. His subsequent attacks in San Jose and Danville that close out the year occurred during that 2:00 - 4:00 AM window as well. If DeAngelo did ever prowl or attack on the clock, we can easily rule all of these attacks out given the significant distance each location was from Auburn.

Given we know he was working the night shift on October 22nd and leaving the station at 1:45 AM, I suspect he was in fact getting off his shift as his EAR activity during this period occurred almost exclusively during the hours after this. Ever since DeAngelo's arrest I've felt the most logical "cover" story for his prowls was that he worked the night shift which gave him an excuse to be away from home at night and provided windows of time that were both ideal for his EAR activity and less likely to be questioned by his wife.

However, this period of attacks were all in locations that took an hour-and-a-half to two hours to get to from Auburn, plus he had to get situated / prepared and likely did some amount of prowling even on the nights of the attacks. So this wasn't as simple as him getting off his shift in Auburn late at night, getting his EAR gear together, and driving the half hour to Sacramento's East Area. We're talking about 3 to 4 hours of roundtrip driving, whatever time he took driving and parking within the attack geography, plus preparation and any prowling he needed to do to commence the attack. I'm not sure how long the attacks in these more remote locations lasted but he was not known for being expedient within people's homes. We could estimate he needed a minimum of five to six hours to travel and carry out these attacks, which does raise questions about whether he was able to do this after getting off work for the night or instead used his off days. If that's the case, though, what was his excuse for disappearing all night?

Anyway, this October 22nd incident obviously got me thinking but it at least confirms DeAngelo was working night shifts into the early morning hours in Auburn during an important period of the EAR phase.

I was looking up an actor for a movie and saw there was a GSK movie being made. Seems like there’s some production issues but they are saying a possible 2026 release. Vincent Gallo and James Franco.

In this YouTube interview with Paul Holes on "Law & Crime Network", he mentions the belief that DeAngelo worked as a security guard after he was fired from the Auburn police. He says he doesn't have proof but suspects this based on circumstantial evidence and witness statements from family members. He also doesn't specify in what part of California he would have worked in security or exactly when.

Has this been discussed before? I don't recall hearing it but something about it "clicks" for me. I'm still very curious about DeAngelo's life between late 1979 and 1986. He began having children but his life is largely a mystery and this period marks the most extreme and severe part of his criminal career.

In Dennis Rader's book he talks about how getting laid off from his first career was a major stressor that caused him to immediately lash out, first with an aborted attack in public followed by the quadruple home invasion murder of a family. Rader had elaborate sado-sexual fantasies and predatory impulses going back to his youth but multiple times in the book he says losing that job pushed him over the edge. The emotional blow of losing the job was a factor but so was suddenly having a ton of free time to pursue his dark obsessions.

DeAngelo was already a murderer when he got fired from the police but these killings were "defensive" spur of the moment shootings in response to being confronted. After the arrest and firing in July 1979, he exclusively devoted himself to deliberate acts of fetishistic murder. DeAngelo's criminal life shows a gradual escalation throughout the 1970s so it's easy to believe DeAngelo would have eventually began carrying out pre-planned serial murders regardless of his circumstances but I don't believe it's a coincidence that he suddenly began the "ONS" phase right after losing his career, identity, and status. In the same interview, Holes said the same, describing this event as a likely stressor.

Holes didn't say exactly when he thinks DeAngelo became a security guard but it would be a fitting job for him in the wake of losing his police job. His police career was done but he still had the criminal justice background and skill set of a law enforcement officer so it would have been a natural gig. He could have still enjoyed the power it gave him and who knows, it could have aided in his criminal behavior much like his police career did. I'd love to know though when Holes believes DeAngelo got the job, how long he had it, and whether he did security work in the Sacramento area, in Southern California, or where he was and who exactly he was working for.

It's still unclear to me too what DeAngelo's relationship was to Southern California during this period. In the days after his arrest I recall info surfacing that he owned or lived in a home in Long Beach and a 1986 birth record for one of his children places them in the Los Angeles area. However, they owned the house in Citrus Heights throughout this period too. Has it ever been fully confirmed whether he was living in Southern California part time, full-time, or at all between late 1979 and 1987?

I followed this case on the Proboards in the years before DeAngelo was arrested and still have many questions only he could answer but I'm fairly content with the information we now have about his life during the VR and EARONS phases. I still wonder how he found the time to prowl, stalk, and burglarize as much as he did in addition to the attacks themselves but we have a pretty good view into his world during the 1970s. I don't feel the same about the ONS phase. It's like a black hole and perhaps that's fitting given DeAngelo seems to have been experiencing peak derangement at the time.

This is what I've read a number of times so thinking it's true. I suppose it's because in the two-story house the bedrooms would mostly be upstairs. If he went upstairs to victimize he might not be able to hear as well if people were coming into the house from outside. Or, if there was someone to victimize on the first floor, he wouldn't be able to hear as well if someone were coming down from the second floor to try to help the victim. Those seem valid? Other ideas?

This feels wrong, I’d like to think he was in solitary or the like.

There have been those who really wanted attention. Zodiac is the first who comes to mind, with his letters to the press.

DeAngelo didn't write any letters to the press that we know of. There's some idea he did once telephone a police station and tell them he was going to rape someone that night and there was nothing they could do about it. I believe the police put out extra patrol that night, but DeAngelo did rape someone that night and got away successfully. No way to know if that was him on the phone, though.

I suppose one reason he may not have sought attention is he may have thought it made him more likely to get caught.

Serial offenders/killers can get caught this way. For instance, if they phone the police or a newspaper and they happen to get recorded, people might recognize their voice, or accent, or background noise might reveal something about them. If they write someone might recognize their handwriting. Ted Kaczynski's brother recognized his ideas and style of expression when the New York Times published one of Kaczynski's manifestos and reported him and got him caught.

Another reason might be that his main gratification was in committing the crimes themselves and he didn't get a lot of enjoyment from taunting the police and community. In the crimes he was affecting people physically as well as emotionally, by raping and murdering. If he taunted the police and media that would have only affected people emotionally, and maybe that wasn't enough. He might even have enjoyed being the "silent killer", a shadowy figure who people didn't know much about and struck fear in their hearts. Possibly he felt like he didn't want to take the time to communicate, he had various things in life he valued (unfortunately including crimes), and the payoff for taunting the police and media wasn't worth the time and effort it took.

Think in some cases prosecutors have done this. DeAngelo being an exceptionally mysterious and successful offender it probably would have been good if he did this, provided a lot of insight into criminal thinking, motive, methods, etc. Yet they don't appear to have. Perhaps they feared if they required this he wouldn't plea? Perhaps they floated it to him and he told them he wouldn't plea if he had to do this? Perhaps the prosecutors didn't care that much, or felt there wasn't much to be learned? Or they didn't want to wait while these interviews took place, since they seemed to have wanted to move fast to get him convicted while victims were still alive so they could see justice. (Fast here is relative since it still took years before he pled.)

Small Town Dicks podcast is running a 10-part series on Holes’ pursuit of EARONS. It’s coming out next month.

Truly, using common sense, there absolutely has to be more crimes he committed that we are unaware of, of many different forms. One thing for sure is a lot of “micro-crimes” like stalking, etc, or even just harassment that is just such habitual behavior it would never really stop. Like that waitress at the diner which was reported.

But I wonder how many of these will die with the public never knowing. E.g. from 1986 to 2018, what was the highest profile thing JJD did? We may never know

Nothing specifically about him. It's just I've read thousands of obituaries as a genealogy buff over the last 30 years and I've never seen one like this where it delineates between "close and immediate grandchildren" and "other grandchildren". Not once. To me, it feels like it tells a lot about their family dynamics. -Let me know if you can't read it all. Not sure how it'll post.

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(Also if this has been posted, forgive me. I searched but came up empty).

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It says the photo was taken in 1986, and that immediately made me think of poor Janelle Cruz. In 1986, she was attacked and murdered by DeAngelo in what many believe was his final known murder.

It’s honestly unsettling to think that he was that age and still targeting an 18-year-old like Janelle. Does anyone have a well-supported theory about how DeAngelo may have crossed paths with her? Even more frightening, how might he have known that she was alone at home while her parents were away on vacation?

I’m looking for information about DeAngelo driving a VW Bug. I’ve seen a few mentions here, but I’d like to find more details about this.

I’ve only recently become aware of the GSK and I’m currently consuming all information I can find out of curiosity about something that happened when I was a teenager.

This is a long shot, I know, and I’m pretty sure I’ll never really be able to confirm anything, but I had a pretty scary situation when I was a teenager and I’ve always wondered about it. I never told any authority figure about it when it happened, but when my kids were older, I told them in hopes they would not make reckless choices like I did as a teen. My now adult daughters started listening to true crime podcasts a few years ago and recently began asking me about this event, basically saying, “ holy crap, mom! You were probably almost kidnapped by a serial killer!” They had tons of questions and we eventually found this subreddit. Now I’m intrigued.

I lived in SoCal in the late 70s to mid 80s. This would have been early 1980s. I went to high school in Anaheim, CA, which is a neighboring city to Garden Grove. I was 15, maybe 16 years old and I was hitchhiking and got a ride with a guy driving what I remember as an older VW Bug. He stopped, got out and walked around the car to open the passenger door for me. When I got in he closed the door and that’s when I saw the inside of the passenger door had been torn out. No door handle and no handle to roll the window down. The guy got in and started driving and never said a word, which was strange. Most people who stopped to pick up a hitchhiker were super friendly, in my experience. But he was very odd, and had this very tense look on his face the whole time.

I lived at the top of the foothills. My street was the last street before a 200+ acres of wildlife preserve which at that time, was pretty desolate most of the time. His old VW Bug was having a really hard time making it up the steep hills to my house and we were driving so slow. I was super creeped out by the way this guy was acting -never looked at me or said anything, never responded when I gave him directions, gripping the steering wheel and just looking straight ahead like he was very stressed. I kept thinking that we were driving so slow that I could jump out if I could open the door but with no handle, I couldn’t get out.

So we finally got close to my street and I started telling him to take a right at the top of this hill. He never responded or reacted. When it was time to turn he kept going and I kept saying “turn here! Turn right here!” He drove past my street, but had plenty of time to turn considering his car was just barely making it up this steep hill. I knew we were headed up towards Weir Canyon and that scared the crap out of me. He was 100% not stopping and I knew I was in trouble. I went absolutely crazy wild, yelling, screaming and threatening him, demanding him to let me out and after a few minutes, he just stopped the car suddenly, got out and walked around to open the door and let me out. I jumped out and ran like crazy back down the hill towards my house and never looked back.

It has bothered me as an adult that I never told anyone about this. I’ve always thought about how this creep finally let me out, but what if he did it again and the next girl didn’t get out? Then I heard about the GSK and again, could be nothing, but DeAngelo’s pictures from the early 80s do match up with my memory of what this guy looked like.

I know this guy could have been anyone. Not trying to be sensational about this. But if DeAngelo drove a VW Bug in SoCal AND the inside passenger side door was torn out, that would be something. Not sure that it would be relevant to anyone but me at this point, but if anyone can point me in the direction of where I can find out more about the car he drove when he was in Southern California, I would appreciate it.

I don’t know what devices DeAngelo has. I’m only aware of a computer, and I’m curious if they found anything in his computer that he was searching for updates on the case or about the case in general?

I obviously now am still ravenous for information after having so many questions posed. Something that stood out to me was Michelle questioning if something specifically was going on with EARONS in October of 77 seeing as in two different attacks he was described as sobbing.

Does anyone have any info about his life during that time that might explain his emotional state?

Also did we ever find out if he did in fact have access to a plane for the two crimes committed within 24 hours of each other and the shoe prints that led to and from the airport?

Edit: You'll have to open the post to see the pics.

Believe there's also an idea he changed his weight deliberately after he was spotted at a crime to make it harder for people to associate him with the crime. But maybe he did naturally vary in weight.

I'm certainly no psychiatrist where I could say going up and down in weight has any connection to whatever emotions in him prompted the crimes. But it seems like it could. But it could be something else.

He's substantially trimmer after spending time in jail before sentencing. Maybe doesn't like prison food? He seems to have cut off contact with family and friends so maybe not getting money for commissary?

I suppose people who didn't know him personally can give their thoughts/feelings here, too. Although I would think it won't be as strong as people who actually knew him.

Obviously essentially no reason to think that this case is explicitly related to EARONS, but I did come across it while researching Tulare, and I very much doubt that many of you would be aware of these cases as they’ve received almost no attention over the years. It feels reminiscent of the 12-26-75 story, two young women dead, Tulare County, questionable police work, etc. Ervin’s body was even dumped on the same road Oscar Clifton lived on. It kind of undermines the 12-26-75 narrative that there have been no other murders of teenage girls from Visalia in the past 60 years or whatever.

"The so-called Zodiac Killer, who has also never been found, similarly consumed Holes for years. 

Five victims who were killed between December 1968 and October 1969 have been tied to the unknown murderer. 

Teacher Arthur Leigh Allen has been linked with the killings and was identified as the main suspect. Yet he died in 1992 before cops were able to collect enough evidence.

Holes was unable to shed any further light on a case which has been shrouded in mystery for years. 

Just like Short, the former detective fears the Zodiac Killer may never be found.

“I was working on Golden State for 24 years. And I developed numerous suspects that I thought were likely the guy, only to eliminate them,” he admitted.

“But with Golden State, I knew I had the killer’s DNA. No question about it. With Zodiac, I think there’s a chance that there could be that DNA that could solve Zodiac, especially with the genealogy tool. 

“Look at something historical like Jack the Ripper. They have no physical evidence. You can sit there and speculate and develop a case against some suspect. But you’re never going to solve Jack the Ripper.”

Source: https://www.the-sun.com/news/15363787/paul-holes-golden-state-killer-true-crime/

This quote just goes to show the apparent massive problem with trying to solve Z is trying to separate the assailant's DNA from like John the Postal Worker's saliva who licked the stamps or got his skin cells on the back of them.

Or like Tim the Cop who touched like the Lake Berryessa cords without wearing any gloves and got his skin cells mixed in all over them with the perp or such.

Doable, but extremely challenging to get to that point.

At trial he just simply says a generic statement like "I'm sorry for the pain I've caused". Almost like a politican who got caught having an affair. I would expect either deflection, anger, denial, etc. Instead it's just "my bad, sorry".

Feels very weird to me.

TLDR: In December of last year, the yearly 'Zodiac Killer finally identified" articles started making the round online and reported on some news channels again like Jack the Ripper does every year as well. And last year's was the Zodiac Killer and Black Dahlia Killer from 1947 were determined to be the same perpetrator through the alleged "decipherment" of the Z13 cipher, as a man by the named of Marvin Margolis, who was born in 1925 and died in 1993.

But to get back on track, Holes didn't really offer any thoughts on the alleged Black Dahlia "solve", but here's the excerpt from the article and what he said directly about seriously solving Z still:

"But some Zodiac experts cite a number of reasons why they believe this connection is “a stretch” and “far-fetched,” starting with the M.O.’s being so dissimilar — from a murder that appeared to be so brutally personal to the Zodiac’s seemingly random attacks on strangers. Beyond that, they say the podcast has not presented “objective, identifying physical evidence,” linking the two cases, as described by retired Contra Costa County Sheriff’s crime lab chief Paul Holes, who helped identity the Golden State Killer. Holes was not commenting directly on the Connelly team theory but on the evidence it takes, in general, for anyone to say a cold case is “solved.” To solve the Zodiac killings, investigators would need to put their suspect at any of the four established Zodiac attacks in Benicia, Vallejo, Lake Berryessa and San Francisco, between December 1968 and October 1969, the retired criminalist said.

“I do think Zodiac is solvable, but (you) need to have that physical evidence, which, in this day and age, is either going to be DNA from a crime scene, or it’s going to be finding a remainder of the bloody shirt (from one of the Zodiac attacks) in a suspect’s storage locker or whatever,” Holes said."

Source: https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/18/michael-connelly-zodiac-killer-controversy-danville/

One thing's for sure, some of history's most famous mysteries keep getting "solved" on a yearly basis like Jack the Ripper and Z in particular.

But it's nice that Holes hold out hope as well. If Z or even the Black Dahlia perp is ever seriously identified still, it'd Almost Undoubtedly be a perp like Alan Wade Wilmer in the Colonial Parkway case and Robert Eugene Bashers in the 1991 Austin yogurt shop case, where LE holds a press conference and says something like, "Suspect apprehension update: Deceased/Long Gone," at this point, especially.

Generally someone sounds angry I'd think when speaking through clenched teeth. And certainly having an angry offender in your house would be that much scarier. And it also makes him seem more unknown because the people he's attacking know it's not his real voice--and things that are unknown are often scarier. It also makes him seem aware, that he's thoughtful and realized it would help him not get caught to disguise his voice--and being more intelligent that way also I would think makes him scarier to the victims, like they would feel with his intelligence he can dominate them better and keep control of them and they'd better not resist.

Source: Math

I saw this excellent segment from the YouTube channel Unseen True Crime about a case I’d never heard about out of LA. Obviously this doesn’t have a direct connection to the EAR, but I think it’s a testament to the fact that these type of crime sprees weren’t as rare 50 years ago as they are today, and thank god for that. The segment starts around the 20:40 second mark.

https://youtu.be/4Aaly49RbWA?si=1s_GD9lvxDWvQeSF

This is in an excerpt from a book, excerpted in People Magazine. The questioners talk to him about various EARONS crimes that they know he has done. Then leave the room and watch and listen to him on audio/video. Talking to himself, he says

Startlingly, DeAngelo admitted aloud that he had committed the crimes. “I did all that ... I didn’t have the strength to push him out. He made me. He went with me.  It was like, in my head, I mean, he’s a part of me. I didn’t want to do those things. I  pushed Jerry out and had a happy life. I did all those things. I’ve destroyed all their lives ... I raped. So now, I gotta pay the price.”

I wonder if at that point he knew it was no use, that he was caught. So he didn't care what he said. Or possibly he didn't understand that though there weren't police in the room, they could still hear him and he was being recorded. Although I would imagine he understood that. The police had been recording interrogations since the 70s. Or he might be a little senile. The day he was arrested he was 72 years old. Not sure why, but I have some doubts there as well. Maybe because we saw the video from two years later where he was so spry and organized in his actions in his cell.

Some have thought he might have been trying to set up an insanity defense. I'm not sure why he would do it at that point and essentially confess. It's not like they're going to let him go home whether they think he's insane or not.

I do notice when he talks to himself, as far as crimes go, he only mentions rape, not murder. Possibly he knew that the statute of limitations on rape was past, so that if he only admitted to rape he couldn't be found guilty. It seems like a useless action, though, because the interrogators, in the excerpt, have already made it clear they have him identified as the perpetrator in four murders. And very possibly they had mentioned other murders he had done that aren't contained in the excerpt. If he was only admitting to rape when he talked to himself knowing the statute of limitations was past, it might be a desperate action to try anything to get free. Or give himself hope that he might get away with it all. I imagine he had plans for enjoying his retirement, and he was watching them all crumble in that room. Or he might just not have mentioned murder talking to himself because he knew the police were listening and it sounded too bad, even though he knew they had him for it. Like he was ashamed of himself for murdering now that's he caught. Although rape is obviously a terrible, shameful crime as well, but I would think most people don't see it being as bad as murder.

According to his friend who knew him in the 2000s until he got caught in 2018. He said DeAngelo used to call or refer to women as “bitches” all the time. Not to mention the 50 women he previously raped, and the other women he killed. How, at the same time, does he love his daughter and granddaughter, and that he works an extra time for them?

I just can't mentally understand it or put it together.