For context I'm in a vicious cycle of grelin and leptin hunger loops for sleep debt that are destroying my teeth because I'm hungry every hour ish and you have to wait 30 mins after eating to brush I mean it's genuinely destroyed my teeth.

Idk what to do. No matter what I can't beat this. I've had the hunger loops for 4 months now and haven't slept 8 hours in about 4 months. It all started from days and days of no sleep trying to get on schedule. Most of it feels like it's executive dysfunction, adhd (racing mind) and chronic pain rather then dspd. Suggestions? For a while I was waking up at the same time everyday but I took work off to catch up on sleep and instead of doing that stupidly I've been sleeping 4-5 hours or staying up days and trying to get on schedule.

I am going to be considering this part of the solutions for my DSPD for the indefinite long term

But also, i live in a second story, working class apartment building, im using the balcony to lay my mattress down, there's security that i can automatically enjoy to practice this, because while im outside i still benefit from being behind a solid locked door- i can imagine how more suspect/unsafe it would be trying this in an open backyard on ground level for example, with only a yard door, etc

Basically i feel way better if one night i only sleep for example 3-4 hours, i don't know how to explain this, it's way better than a 9 hours sleep.

This feeling obviously sticks only the first or the first 2 days of sleep deprivation, if i keep a 3-4 hours routine i feel waay worse after some days.

Anyone figured out how could we recreate this? I guess it's a metter of cortisol and adrenaline, but mate.. i feel soo better.

The USA has tried permanent Daylight Saving Time twice—once in the 1940s and again in the 1970s. It failed both times, and people hated it. My question is why haven’t we ever tried the opposite—abolishing DST altogether and going to permanent standard time?

We are doing research at UCLA on the habits of students to provide solutions for students facing sleep related problems. We have some questions to ask you in a survey. Thanks! This will take 5 minutes max. https://forms.gle/XqprUxwU1wWmp2to6

My current sleep schedule is to go to bed at about 7AM. I have always been a bit of a night owl, maybe going to bed at midnight or 1 or 2 maybe, but this is getting ridiculous. I keep telling myself it's fine. I'm a novelist. I do good work at night, in fact that's what I'm doing when I realize the sun is up and I haven't even gotten a little bit sleepy yet. But every single thing that comes up during the day, vet appointments, dental cleanings, phone calls, everything wrecks my whole day. I wish there was a way to make this work because I don't hate it, except for the everything else.
I am in my first year of menopause, and I think this is the cause, but I don't know. I'm also AuDHD.

Wouldn't it be great if there was a whole city that was nothing but DSPD people and you could live there and be normal.

What are your experience with GABA supplements for sleep ? I’ve been trying to go without melatonin because it has given me horrible side effects recently . Magnesium glycinate is ok I guess but it isn’t knocking me out .

The house just passed a bill for permanent DST in the US. This would be a major disabling event for folks with dspd. Where I live, the sun wouldn’t rise until 9am in the winter. Write your senators so that the senate could potentially pass a bill in favor of standard time instead.

Hi everyone, I've had DSPD since early adolescence but I always ignored it really. In school I would sleep 2-6am and wake up at 8am fully rested and okay. Now I do online school at my own pace so I don't need to wake up and instead I've cycled to sleeping 12 hours every night (lots of reasons for this, doesn't bother me to sleep that long), usually 12-3am to 12-3pm. Though I scallop my sleep timing a lot.

My question is, do I need to treat this? Life kind of falls around my natural sleep cycle, I know people with N24 tend to free run if they can and that works best for them, does the same apply to DSPD?

Maybe I could work on sleeping less overall but it generally doesn't bother me too much. It'd just be waking up earlier rather than changing the time I fall asleep.

Long time severe sufferer of treatment resistant . Melatonin, light therapy box, all other therapy/medical options haven’t worked. For a decade, my sleep onset time has been about 6-8 am. This has made it so I not only get very little sunlight but I don’t have much of a life, and I can’t function in the normal world, so very important appointments that would take a normal person a day to do have taken me years. Because the world doesn’t work on my time it works on normal people time and most
people don’t understand this disease or have any empathy.

I’ve even tried staying up past my bedtime, going to bed at night and trying to shift my Sleep onset to a more normal time using light therapy and melatonin, and it hasn’t worked. It always goes back to the 6-8 am sleep onset.

The last several months I’ve had to go on a medication (ppi and pcab) that has caused my sleep on set time to get later and later and right now I’m at 1:30 PM and waking up at 9:30 PM. I’m able to do my errands in the early morning, but I have to wear blue light blocking glasses so the sun doesn’t cause even more of a delay. I feel unwell, because the 1:30 pm bedtime is very out of sync for me, I’m not getting any sunlight at all except in the morning before bed, but I have to wear the glasses, and I feel even more of a metaphorical vampire than I usually do.

Right now, I have to finish the medication that delayed my sleep on set to 130 which will be for about another month. after that’s done I’m thinking of just staying up until 7:30 PM and going to bed, hopefully waking up at around
3:30 am eventually (it’ll prob take me a week to sleep continuously to 3:30 am), and keeping it there by getting morning sunlight at 6 am, and seeing if I can keep that sleep time and week time. Because as much as it’s out of sync with my regular 6 AM bedtime for a decade, I would actually be able to get things done and have somewhat of a life waking up at 3:30 AM as opposed to waking up 3-5 pm when I go to bed at 6 AM and getting very little sunlight.

I’m wondering if that’s feasible, if it’s reasonable and if it’s something that I can attain by getting actual sunlight at 6:00 AM after waking up at 3 am. I’m also really scared that it’s going to push me in n24, because of the warnings against chronobiology, even though I’m not doing a later time every single day till I’m around the clock. I’m wondering what you all think? Going into N 24 is one of my biggest fears.

At this point, once the medication is done, my Sleep will go back to the 6 AM, but I didn’t have a life going to bed at 6 AM and I was depressed. Going to bed at 7:30 PM and waking up at 3:30 AM or something around that timeframe would be so much more functional and active. I’m wondering what you all think about this plan, if it’ll work and what I can do to not go into N 24 if I do it?

Here's to another late night and more good news.

Adrift, the sleep app I've been building for people whose clocks don't run on a normal schedule, passed review and is live for alpha testing. If you signed up on the site, you're on the list and your invite is going out. Check your email, including spam, over the next day or two.

Upfront about what this is: it's an alpha, it's free, and you'll be among the first people to ever touch it. It's also the first app I've ever published, so I'm learning this in real time right alongside you. There will be rough edges. I'd rather you see them than pretend they aren't there.

Quick honest state of things:

- Tracks your sleep from your phone's motion sensor, with your say-so, and shows it back as a daily energy level instead of a wall of numbers.

- If you wear a watch or ring, it reads sleep, temperature, workouts, and cycle from your health app as context next to your nights. Never a diagnosis, never "this caused that."

- Log what moves your sleep, tag it, see it on your calendar and actogram.

- Track what you try (blackout curtains, FL-41 glasses, a wind-down routine) and, after enough honest nights, see how those nights compared. A personal record, not proof, and it never nags you for skipping.

- A doctor report you can hand to a real doctor, a schedule planner that's honest about the hard nights, and a gear shelf with e-ink readers for low-light night reading.

- Everything stays on your phone. No account, no sign-in, your data never leaves the device.

Getting in: when the invite lands, open it on your Android phone and tap to become a tester. One headache-saver: use the same Google account on your phone that you signed up with, since the invite has to match it. Keep an eye out for an email from [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])

Haven't signed up? There's still room: AdriftSleep.com

Signed up with a "hide my email" or forwarding address? That's the one thing the Play Store can't invite, since it needs a real Google account. If that's you, email [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) with the Google account you use on your phone and I'll add you.

iOS folks, I haven't forgotten you. The build is only a few days from parity. The holdup is on my end, some Apple developer account hiccups, and I'm waiting on Apple support, so no date yet. It's coming.

I also put up an FAQ, including the things Adrift does not do and why: AdriftSleep.com/FAQ. I'd rather tell you what's not here and the reason than leave you guessing.

Thank you in advance for your patience and goodwill while I find my footing. In return I'll stay transparent about what's working, what isn't, and what's coming. Tell me what's confusing, broken, or missing. There's a report option built right into the app, and I read every one. I'm new at this, building it because I want it to exist for people like us, and I'm happy to make it with you.

I appreciate you all for sticking with this and giving me a shot. It means more than you know.

Has anyone else faced this issue where you use melatonin to fix their delayed sleep onset, but once you stop, you go back to a delayed sleep time? Instead of the ideal time you want to fall asleep? Am I using melatonin incorrectly?

For reference, I take .5mg 4 hours before my desired bedtime (10:30pm). If I don't fall asleep by 10:30, I take another 2mg dose right then.

Hey all,

I wanted to share something I've been working on for a while.

I've had DSPD since I was 14, and I'm in my 30s now. I've spent a lot of time thinking about what this journey has been like, how much I still struggle with it, and how isolating it can feel when people assume you are just lazy or not trying hard enough.

I've worked in tech for a long time, and I finally decided to build the app I wish I had as a teenager.

I've used plenty of sleep-tracking apps over the years, but I got tired of being shown red rankings, told my health was poor, or told my body was years older than it should be because my sleep does not look conventional. That was never helpful. It was mostly demotivating.

So this is my attempt at an app for the DSPD/N24 crowd: Adrift. Website: AdriftSleep.com

Some of what I built it around:

- Enter the hours you genuinely need to be awake for, such as work or events, plus the hours when you need to be sharp for a meeting, gym session, class, or anything else important.

- It maps your current sleep rhythm against those commitments and gives an energy forecast for keeping your current schedule or attempting a shift. It is meant to show likely trade-offs, not pretend it can predict you perfectly.

- If your sleep has drifted until sunrise and you have work in a few hours, it can lay out the planning trade-offs between a short nap and staying awake, including how either route may affect the following day. It also accounts for whether naps tend to leave you groggy.

- It includes long-term approaches people use while living with DSPD/N24, career considerations that may fit a nontraditional rhythm, and a red-light mode so opening the app at 4 AM does not blast your eyes with blue light.

- It can export a doctor-facing report, so you can bring organized sleep data into a diagnosis conversation.

- You can publish an energy forecast to your calendar and share it with someone close to you, so a partner or parent can see what your battery may look like over the next two weeks.

- It includes plain-language explainers and optional scripts for communicating the condition to family, partners, or work. That part is personal to me. I spent years with people assuming I was just lazy.

- There are also sections covering DSPD, practical rights and accommodation information, and ways to get involved in visibility and advocacy.

The goal is never to shame you or tell you that you are doing something wrong. It is there to help you understand your options and make living with the condition a little easier.

On Android, Adrift can use sleep data from Health Connect, so data from supported wearables can flow in automatically. No wearable? You can still log and track sleep with the phone. It is not a replacement for a medical-grade measurement, but I wanted the barrier to entry to stay free.

All data stays local. There is no account or server behind it. Every calculation is explained in the app, and every number is either cited or clearly labeled as an Adrift assumption. I am not a scientist or a doctor, so transparency matters: the goal is to be open about how it works and adjust it based on community feedback.

Next on the roadmap is smart-home support. I am researching ways for Adrift to work with Home Assistant and compatible lights, so your environment can gradually dim and warm as your wind-down approaches.

This is my first Google Play release, and I need alpha and beta testers. Google requires at least 12 testers to stay opted in for 14 days before a public release is possible, so every person genuinely helps. If you are interested, sign up at AdriftSleep.com and I will send an invite. Use it as much or as little as you want. Honest feedback about what feels useful, wrong, or confusing means a lot at this stage.

An iOS version with feature parity is also in the works, though it is currently delayed by developer-account paperwork.

Happy to answer any questions about the app.

Standard boilerplate disclaimer: Adrift is a planning and tracking tool, not medical advice or a substitute for clinical care.

Made a discord as I know it's a popular community outreach tool. I don't use it much but i'm open to start if any of y'all wanna join and reach out via feedback: https://discord.gg/23dxZN8fKY

Edit. Moved the sing up for beta form to the top of the page for easy access.

Pretty much what the title says - my Luminette glasses have shifted my natural wakeup time earlier by two hours, but I feel really exhausted and unwell all the time. I'm going to sleep earlier too, so I'm getting the right amount of sleep, but I was wondering if anyone else had the same thing and whether it went away after a while?

Hi everyone! I’m Dayah. Some of you may know me as the person behind Circadia, a sleep app I originally created for my own N24.

Circadia already exists on the web, and a surprisingly large part of its community now has DSPD and other sleep disorders, *not * N24. Due to that, I’ve been building different, disorder-specific versions of Circadia instead of expecting everyone to use tools designed around my own condition.

Those versions aren’t live yet. Finishing them is the last thing holding up the native iOS launch, which I’m preparing for this upcoming week!

DSPD is by far the most important one for me to get right. Not only because so many existing Circadia users have it, but because I don’t want to guess from outside the disorder about what would actually improve your lives.

So *please* give me your most selfish, oddly specific feature requests.

What would make you open an app and think, “Holy shit, somebody finally understands DSPD”?

The unreleased DSPD-specific version already includes:

- Your likely sleep and wake window, based on your own history
- Drift Watch, which looks at whether your late timing is staying fairly steady or moving (since DSPD often precedes N24)
- Sleep-onset trends and recent directional movement
- Free days versus work, school, alarm, or obligation days
- The actual cost of forced wakes compared with natural wakes
- A “morning runway” showing how long it tends to take you to feel functional
- Warnings when a saved morning commitment overlaps your usual sleep
- Comparisons between your own tags (caffeine, light, activities, medication changes, migraines etc) and how they affect your sleep

The wider Circadia app already has detailed sleep logging, prediction tools that use traditional machine learning, imports and exports, calendar and pattern views, doctor-friendly reports, optional sharing with trusted people, a crazy amount of analysis, and a community view showing who else is awake. The iOS app also connects with Apple Health.

I’m currently working on adding a much deeper DSPD overhaul for launch, including:

- A home screen centered on whether tomorrow morning collides with your real sleep window
- Your unconstrained baseline from days when nothing forces you awake
- How much sleep early obligations cost you, measured against your own baseline (not a universal “ideal” bedtime though Circadia doesn’t do that already)
- A proper onset trail and work/free-day comparison
- A history of Drift Watch’s steady-versus-moving reads
- Quick morning-function check-ins
- A wind-down anchor learned from your own timing
- A way to check how badly a recurring commitment would collide with your sleep before accepting it

What am I still missing?

What do existing sleep apps get completely wrong about DSPD? What would make logging feel worth the effort? What would help with work, school, appointments, accommodations, doctors, relationships, or simply planning a life around your actual clock?

And once I’ve finished added the features people request, would anyone here be willing to test the finished DSPD-specific version and give me brutally honest feedback?

Don’t worry about being nice. Tell me what sounds useful, useless, confusing, or completely disconnected from real life. Even one wildly specific wish would help. I just need something to go off of. I never started with DSPD, I’ve had N24 since I was an infant so I have literally no useful knowledge other than this subreddit and a ton of research.

I’ve been working on the DSPD lens for weeks, but I’m at the point where I just need feedback from actual people with the disorder. Circadia is only good because *I* have N24 and made it for myself.

I do get a lot of my feedback from users, but haven’t heard as much from the DSPD ones, though they *do* use Circadia every day. I’m just too much of a perfectionist to ship something that sucks, and I’m really in my head about this. Please help 🥺

I have full blown ADD which is now considered ADHD by the current DSM. I’ve had it my entire life and wasn’t medicated until age 18. Is sleeping with a heavy (not weighted I live in the Midwest this heat sucks) heavy blanket 1-underneath my head 2- against my head 3- hands crawled up underneath my neck a thing?? I also have a 23 pd chihuahua mix who sleeps literally next to me so a weighted blanket is not an option as it would kill him. Any advice??

We invite you to take part in an anonymous online survey: Personality, Close Relationships and Attitudes towards Mental Health Problems.   

If you are 18+ years old and choose to be included, your participation in this survey will help researchers at the University of Wollongong to better understand attitudes towards mental health problems, and how these may relate to pathological personality traits, mood states and relationship styles.   

 The survey will take 45-60 minutes to complete, and will ask some questions about: 

• Your personal characteristics (e.g., age, gender) 
• Your personality traits 
• Your experiences in close relationships
• Your attitudes towards mental health problems

To take part in this survey, please visit: https://uow.au1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1HvwPWrZkHXSyc6

For more information, please contact Dr Samantha Reis at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).

Hey yall, I haven’t been diagnosed, but im looking to suggest it to my doctor to see if they agree. Ever since I was a teen, I had a really hard time just sleeping through the night. I’ve always fallen asleep the easiest around 3-5 am. In highschool I used to do this thing to “reset myself” and then it became a bad habit. Where I’d stay up all night and day to make myself so exhausted I pretty much collapsed during the night.

And it would “reset” my sleep schedule for a few days, where I would go to bed at a more normal time, but then it eventually started to shift to me going to bed later and later and being unable to shut off, and then I would have to do the hard reset again, where I stay up all night and day to force myself into sleep. But it’s always miserable.

Because I get super nauseous when I’m tired, and can’t eat, which makes me weak. And I feel myself having palpitations. But now I’m 21 and have a job where I open a restaurant at 5 am and can’t just do that hard reset anymore and the nausea and palpitations all day.

Edit: forgot to mention, I have Hashimoto’s, which may also be affecting my circadian rhythm but who knows 🤷‍♀️

Although I’m not diagnosed with this, I’m on the autism spectrum and believe I believe I have DSPD. My dream jobs is to work as a concept artist in the video game industry but I have struggled with sleep my whole life and the thought about my DSPD keeping me from that is destroying me. Please give me some hope.