Ranai was an objectively top 5 player in Smash 4 with Villager. I think he's the most talented player to ever touch villager period.

But should I still bother reviewing his gameplay or is Ultimate too different for me to benefit from it? I know people say Villager from Sm4sh and Ultimate are basically the same character, so maybe it's not so bad of an idea?

I had a couple questions about how to best execute Sonic’s Bair after his Uair ladder combos on a lower platform.

I noticed from watching major tournament sets that after Sonic’s Uair -> Uair ladder combo above a platform, many pro players seem to do an IDJ (based on the double jump effect appearing) in order to hit the Bair afterward. Sonic’s full hop and double jump are exactly the same height (35 units or something), so I don’t really understand the benefit of using IDJ here, outside of maybe being able to input Bair like slightly earlier (due to avoiding the short hop macro).

Is that really the only reason? The reason I’m confused is because I’m not sure whether this is even a true combo most of the time in the first place, since I thought it was just an untrue but relatively safe thing that people go for to extend their damage after the first two Uairs with Sonic using a platform. If it’s not a true combo either way (unless it is?), why not just full hop and slightly delay the Bair input, to avoid the risk of not having your double jump anymore?

So my questions are:

(1) What are the easiest/best inputs for the turnaround and IDJ Bair?

Do you just buffer a landing pivot during the fastfall after the second Uair by holding diagonally back and down for the turnaround? And then for the IDJ, is it best to just rapidly press jump twice within 4 frames and also input bair within that window? Does the first jump need to be buffered during the landing turnaround animation? Should the Bair be done with control stick + A, or just the C-stick? I have a shoulder button mapped to jump, so should I be using that as the second jump input or just double tapping Y to make sure the buttons aren’t pressed at the same time? I’m using a Switch 2 Pro Controller, just to clarify.

(2) Does using an IDJ actually make the Bair a true combo extension (after the second Uair) in cases where a full hop Bair wouldn’t be true?

Is the IDJ really necessary to do the Bair consistently in actual games? How much does the IDJ actually quantifiably help, and is it worth the risk of not having your double jump anymore? I believe you can have an aerial start on frame 5 (second airborne frame) for a full hop aerial, but it can start on frame 4 (same frame as the double jump happening, right after jump squat ends) if you do an IDJ and buffer the aerial. Is this single frame worth losing your double jump for, especially if they might avoid the Bair anyway?

I couldn’t easily find this specific info on Youtube or Reddit or Discord yet, so I really appreciate the help!

Hello. While not new to the game, I've never tried hero before. Besides getting used to his moves and movement. What drills do you experienced hero mains like to do in the training room? I'm not afraid of grinding out the training room so hit me!

i feel like i was doing well at first but after that first game i lost my steam, i understand that this should be in my favor but i struggle to understand how to get in utilize my kit well and actually hit them back, defaulting to the same options and mashing a lot, also general advice would be appreciated

https://youtu.be/LfzgFQeQl5c?is=GJYgm5lPAs0Gcoo_

Who else is at a point in your smash journey where you no longer have a need to play countless hours everyday in a sense where you practice with more intent/ structure with only like 1-3 hours regarding the fact you’ve mastered your character like me. Also who else decided to hop on the wave of doing content regarding smash like YouTube, TikTok, etc

I am trying to do the Luigi 0 to death combo. On my first dair, the other character is moving outwards instead of directly down like in videos. How do I fix this.

On the official tier list, characters with poor neutrals that greatly benefit from opponents making mistakes are ranked all over the place.

In the lower tiers, we have characters like Ganondorf and Incineroar. At lower levels where people make lots of mistakes they are very strong, but at higher levels they fall below characters like Sheik that have better neutral but worse punishes. When players lose to these characters, their mistakes are seen as “skill issues”, AKA avoidable mistakes.

In the top tiers, we have characters like Luigi and Kazuya. These characters are ranked several tiers above characters with much better neutral (again, like Sheik). When top players lose to them, their mistakes are instead seen as “human error”, AKA valid and inevitable mistakes that improvement won’t fix.

Is there actually such a thing as “human error” mistakes or are they all just glorified skill issues? If so, what’s the tipping point? Is there, for instance, a measurable theoretical cap on muscle memory, bracket stamina etc. that’s low enough to affect the game like there is with reaction time?

For context I’ve put around 315 hours into the game at this point, and last session with piranha plant was an absolute disaster, started at 16.05 mil and dropped all the way down to 15.4. Now, piranha plant isn’t my main (pit) who sits at 16.17 mil and I’m genuinely starting to wonder if pit may be carried, because I can’t get anyone else in the roster up to that level of play.

there seems to be some fatal flaw with my neutral, that separates me from people higher then and at my gsp. I find myself looking at the other player straight fucking me up and wondering how tf is he doing what he’s doing. Every time i try to punish something, I fail, and every time I try to approach, I get punished. The most brain dead strats always work on me (Spamus running to the corner and spamming neutral b + side b + down b + roll then repeat) because they feel unpunishable. If anyone would be willing to play me or if you want I can send vods (I ain’t got an sd card so they’re gonna be screen recorded 💀)

I’m pretty much your average 1-2er, sometimes I go 2-2 on a good day. I’ve tried going to tournaments, watching my vods, getting feedback from better players, but I just can’t seem to get out of my own head. I wanna make sure that I’m still improving but right now I don’t know that I am. I feel like I’ve reached my ceiling and I don’t know how to break through it.

Hello! I'm not new to the smash series but I am to the competitive scene, I tried when I was younger and got my cheeks clapped, but recently I've been interested in trying to learn it. I'm new to the point where I haven't looked into all the competitive terms for the game yet but I want to learn. Anyway, I decided I'd give Roy a shot because he was good in previous ones. However there's this combo I can't seem to grasp that this guy performed, I understand how to do both attacks but I'm struggling to get a hold on the fast turning into the back air. Any help? 😅
11:03 - 11:05

hi I’ve been getting back into playing Smash Ultimate lately and I’ve been seeing who should be my new main and I’m trying to make it be Meta Knight. and by chance I found videos on how to bridge and ladder as them. I’m getting better at laddering as I can get 3 up airs before I go Up B but I can’t get bridging down at all as my down airs can’t connect at all so I wanna ask people who know how to play them better than I can on how they do it.

The only thing i can think of is yoshi's double jump armor anyone else who has a better disadvantage state?

As a Yoshi main, I struggle with Pyra/Mythra a lot. They have massive hitboxes with disjoints and it feels like its impossible to reach them when their using any of their aeriels. I have tried practising against level 9 Pyra/Mythras but it doesn't help much.

Any tips would be appreciated :D

I need advice for good characters to choose, and a game plan, I like most swordies, and some brawlers.

Edit: I shouldve put that I main Roy earlier, my bad

Yesterday I was playing Toon Link, since he's my third most-played character. I'm definitely not as good with him as I used to be. I was pretty good back then, but not nearly as good as I am now with some of my other characters.

I was just messing around in Training Mode and thinking about recovering and how you can Z-drop bombs. So I tried it with Toon Link and realized something.

The normal throw animation still has end lag. After you throw a bomb, there's a short period where you can't act. But when you Z-drop a bomb, you're actionable almost instantly.

I've been labing a few things, and now I'm starting to think it could actually be competitively viable. For example, you can Z-drop a bomb, pull another one, and immediately throw it. That's probably the simplest setup I've found. I've also been experimenting with Z-dropping bombs into combos since it has so much less end lag.

I don't really keep up with the competitive scene, so I'm curious: is Z-dropping bombs actually considered viable? Do competitive Toon Link players already use it, or did I stumble onto something that's just too niche to be worth using?

Hey all, Lucario main here (I know, we exist), and I have a really big issue of jumping too much and I wanna know how I can better practice being more Grounded, doing more short hops consistently and just not getting beaten in the air, I got waxed by a mewtwo last night and I feel like that was what happened to me a Lot, ty for any advice!

Hello!
This is the Dedede main that’s been posting on this sub every so often.

It’s getting pretty deep into the summer and since my last post about 0-deaths, I have been studying the game harder to try and raise my win rate and beat better players. To be more specific I was studying up a bunch on Link, how he uses boomerang, the timings of falling and rising nair’s, how to ledgetrap him better, that sort of thing. The reason why I because I was scheduled to face Adot, the best Link in Kentucky and is currently ranked as an HM in the states PR. I’ve made it my end-all-be-all goal to beat them in at least one set in the small online weekly. So, I spend a couple hours a day that week and around 5-6 hours (Practically from when I woke up to when the tournament began) watching VOD’s on him over and over, analyzing their habits to try and dissect how a Dedede player like me could beat him.

And I did.

I barely lost the winners-finals 2-3 which I was exasperated about, but I was absolutely ECSTATIC when I beat them in Grand Finals in a very even 3-2 victory! I didn’t even care that I lost the True Grands run back and didn’t get first at the tourney, that very moment showed to me, directly, that I can beat PR players if I tried hard enough, and worked hard enough.

And, I’m gonna be 100% honest, I wasn’t super happy that I won against Adot in one of those sets because it proved that I was good at Smash Ultimate. It was because that moment proved that I could win with a character that I love for more than for how they are on a play style, design, or meme basis.

I was a Kirby fan long before I played smash competitively. It began when I revisited my copy of Kirby: Triple Deluxe when I was around 12 or so years old, and ended up having a blast with it. Afterwards I bought Kirby: Super Star Ultra and it all snowballed from there. Dedede was always my favorite character in the series because of his redemption arc and how he was able to show just as much love for others as much as how much he was able to love himself. Nowadays I’m more confident in myself than I have ever been, and I partially attribute that to me being so attached to the King of Dreamland.

However, starting in around 2022, I was unsatisfied with being just “another fan” of the Kirby series. I wanted to do something “special” for the franchise, to commemorate my love for the video games that played a big part in making myself who I am today. I tried many different avenues that other fans usually take such as Fanart, Fan Fiction, Remixes of songs of the series, but all of these seemed too complex or unfamiliar to me to pick up. It was after all three of these creative arts failed that I thought about competitive Smash Ultimate. I already watched VOD’s for fun, I already played Dedede for fun back in Smash 4, so why not try to get serious with it, while playing my favorite character?

That’s what lead me to where I am as a player now…and it makes me feel really isolated, in a way.

Not in the way in that I am embarrassed or ashamed of the reason that I do play Smash, but alone in the sense that no one else seems to talk about, or even acknowledge, how some competitive smash players might be playing the game because the character they use holds a special place in their heart and still does today. I am the only person I know who plays Dedede because he’s the proud, self-made king from a series that I have been a fan of for years. Everyone else seems to play him because they saw memes of him in Kirby: Right Back at Ya and think he’s funny, or because they wanna main the most “self-depreciating” low tier and Dedede was that for them. This doesn’t just go for Dedede either, I feel like this is the case for all characters in smash history. I know that, naturally, smash players play smash characters for smash-related reasons, but sometimes it feels as if people don’t show respect those who don’t play smash for smash, but who play smash to represent something outside of it.

My question I want to ask here is, how do I deal with these feelings of “character loyalty loneliness?” Is it a feeling that will just fizzle away the better I get at smash because I will understand more of what people are talking about with Dedede? Should I just ignore things that try to bring me down about this? Is there anyone out there who can relate to what I’m experiencing?

Things such as “play who you want if you’re not at top level” have always brought me down about this.

So as far as I understand, the up-B Out-of-Shield option select (that allowed it to automatically come out on the first actionable frame after shield stun) no longer exists right? Like tilting up and then mashing B doesn’t work anymore because it was patched pretty early in the game? As a result, I think it has to always be smash inputted, and I guess it’ll be buffered if you input during shield stun, but you can also repeatedly hit both up+B to get it.

My question was whether anyone knows exactly how long the window is after tapping up on the control stick where you can still press B (like with smash attacks) to still get the up-B OoS, or whether it has to be frame-perfect/actually simultaneous?

Like with up smash OoS I think the high stick sensitivity setting gives me a 5-frame window to input A (after control stick up), so the timing feels more lenient than upB, but I’m not sure if there’s an analogous 3-frame window or something for the B press timing after the control stick is pushed up if you’re doing it OoS. Basically, since the up-B needs to be inputted like a smash attack, I was wondering if there’s a few frames of wiggle room after the control stick tap to press B slightly afterward, like with a smash attack.

Also, on a related note, does anyone know whether upB OoS gets extra frames for this timing window between the up and B inputs if you have high stick sensitivity on?

Edit: I won’t mark it as solved yet because I still don’t know the exact input frame window and whether it is affected by stick sensitivity, but I do think one aspect of it has been clarified.

Basically, once the shield button input is no longer there anymore, then the B mash method should work fine, since it will read the existing control stick up input being held rather than requiring a simultaneous input (since the shield angling mechanism goes away once shield isn’t being held anymore). And if at least one of the mashed B inputs occurred during shield stun and then you let go of shield before shield stun ends (while continuing to mash B before and after dropping the shield button, and having a preexisting control stick up input held), then maybe a buffered upB is successfully coming out on the first frame after shield stun ends and is just canceling the shield drop animation on its first frame. 

This feels slightly more unsafe, but it might just be better to just let go of shield right after they hit it and then the B mashing technique works consistently for bringing out a quick upB. So I guess that might be why it was working for others and not for me before; I wasn’t letting go of shield until my upB came out, so even during shield stun it still required a near-simultaneous smash inputted up+B to buffer the upB. Like if the shield continued to be held during shield stun after the hit, it wouldn’t buffer the upB from just a B mash with the up direction continuously held, due to the shield angling mechanic while shield and B are pressed at the same time.

Six years ago this sub was the first place I shared my match tracker, and you're the ones who told me to post it to r/smashbros. It stayed alive because of that. I just finished rebuilding it, so I'm bringing it back here first: grandfinals.gg

This is a bootstrapped, self-hosted site I've been working on for the past 6 years. (more off than on, for what it's worth). I run no ads and collect no data - it's just for ya'll to use if you want to.

The r/smashbros post has the full feature list (once(if???) it passes review). For this sub, here's the part that matters: it's built to find your leaks and give deeper insight to what's actually happening match to match.

* Stage win rates with honest sample sizes. The original algorithms weren't taking into account sample size and giving absolutely trash recommendations. 2 games of data doesn't outweigh 20 and the stats reflect that

* Matchup matrix across everyone you've played. The matchups you think are bad and the ones that are actually bad are usually different lists

* Session and tilt detection. It flags when your win rate drops inside a session so you can see what "one more set" actually costs you

* Scout your bracket before you play it. Any start.gg or parry.gg player: their characters, stages, placements, and which of your characters do best into their mains. Recommended stages, stage bans, stage picks, character picks and counterpicks, the works.

* VOD notes with timestamps that link straight to the moment, so labbing off your own footage doesn't mean scrubbing through 40 minutes of video

* For online grinders: your GSP converts to the hidden MMR the game actually uses (community reverse engineered the formula this year, credited in the app). Elite is a fixed MMR of 1142, and it'll tell you honestly whether you're climbing or whether matchmaking already has you placed

* crew leaderboards with your rating (not actual matches), so you can invite friends and create your own custom leaderboards

Free, no ads, not a business. The only paid thing is optional AI scouting reports, priced to break even on what they cost to generate. I'm only putting the paid option until I get some more cash to throw at the project and then they'll be free in general (provided this doesn't blow up and threaten to bankrupt me). I work in the space, and tried to fine tune the reports so they're actually USEFUL for someone who plays smash without being too elitest.

I'll **never** run ads on the site because I use it and that would just piss me off. It's me creating what I wish I always had when playing smash, and I hope other people can get some value out of it.

Code's on GitHub too, so if you just want to see how I did it or host it yourself feel free to do so! Open source is open thought.

Same ask as 2020: use it, break it, tell me what's missing. This sub's feedback built well over half of it so I'm gonna stick to what works.

https://grandfinals.gg

Can someone like samus just feed kirby and heal him? does this need friendly fire or is it not possible at all?

I’m trying to do rob’s lagless item catch string this way: jump -> zdrop -> nair -> jump -> fthrow -> z catch (lagless? idk if it works here) -> zdrop -> zcatch (lagless again?) but i always end up with just an airdodge on the last catch. i’m watching lucretio’s video and have been consistently doing the double jump nair -> lagless catch practice, and it works. i can’t get it to work on the actual combo tho. someone help?

Robin is a very interesting character to play because they have a flaw that no other character has, that being item durability. True to the Fire Emblem series, Robin's moves have a limited amount of uses before the item must be discarded and you have to wait several seconds before you get access to the move again. These moves are very powerful though and whether or not you have access to them changes the way you and your opponent will play the game.

Robin is also known as the tactician of Smash Bros and part of that is a chess motif. They even have a voiceline saying "Checkmate!" Unrelated to Smash Bros I have genuinely started getting into Chess lately. (Perhaps a canon event for anyone who continues playing competitive Smash over the age of 25). On the surface Chess and Super Smash Bros don't have a lot in common. One is a turn based strategy game that has been played for thousands of years and the other is a fast paced fighting game. But learning how tempo works in chess helped me to understand tempo in Smash Bros.

In Chess tempo is determined by the moves you make. A high tempo move is one that develops your piece and forces your opponent to respond to your threat. A good example of this is anytime you make a move that targets your opponents King. If you lose your King you lose the game and your opponent is literally forced to respond to your threat instead of developing another one of their pieces. Based on this concept of tempo it leads me to this definition.

Tempo is pressure that demands a response.

Pushing a Pawn to block an attack on the King isn't as strong as sending a Knight to the center of the board, but failing to do so will cause you to lose the game. Tempo often happens in much smaller moments over the course of the game. Forcing a Bishop to retreat is great tempo, because it leads to your opponent moving the same piece multiple times without improving it's positioning. But what does this have to do with Super Smash Brothers?

Everything! Unlike in Chess Smash Bros is real time which complicates things. But the idea behind tempo is still the same. Tempo is pressure that demands a response. In the case of Robin let's look at charging Thunder. The thunder tome is a projectile that has several stages you can charge it to. The basic version of Thunder isn't that impressive. But once you get it to stage 4 and can throw out a Thoron the move becomes very scary. Simply charging Thunder is pressure that demands a response.

Typically this results in the opponent moving towards you to stop you from charging the tome. Charging the thunder tome on it's own does not reward tempo, but correctly identifying how the opponent wants to respond to you charging the tome will lead to a positive tempo interaction.

If you know that your opponent is going to try to jump over the potential projectile that you are charging, you can counter their approach with a Levin Foward Air. The Levin Forward Air could then send them off-stage which gives you the opportunity to ledge trap with Arc Fire. An opponent on the ledge has very few options rewarding the tactician with tempo. One positive tempo interaction can often snowball into taking the stock.

Durability, however, throws a wrench in this gameplay loop. If you throw out an Elthunder and your opponent jumps in when you don’t have Levin Sword, the standard response of Forward Air isn’t going to work as well. Because Robin loses access to options throughout the match it’s even more important to understand tempo, because the inability to pressure can cause your opponent to react in different ways.

Something I didn't truly appreciate until I mained Robin was that losing or gaining options during a match can significantly change the tempo of it. Robin has a tool for practically any situation but as soon as you're put on a cooldown timer that gives your opponent an opportunity. If they know you don't have Levin Sword it is a lot easier for them to apply pressure and force you to respond to their threats.

Tempo applies to more than just whether or not you have Levin Sword. Tempo is relative to whatever options each player has. If someone is getting ledgetrapped by Arcfire the tempo is very heavily in Robin's favor. If Joker gets Arsene while he has center stage the tempo will swing in their favor. If the timer is ticking down to 0 and it's 3 stocks to 1 there's very few options available to the losing player, and the tempo gets to be decided entirely by the winning player.

Giving yourself more options inherently leads to better tempo as you'll be able to better respond to your opponents threats. It's why center stage is so important, why getting the first stock matters, why Steve is so broken. Maining a character who didn't have it all, and quite frequently lost options helped me to understand this concept that has been eluding me for years. And maybe I'll be able to hit 1,000 ELO in Chess here soon. Thanks for reading and I hope you all have a great Tuesday!

If you enjoyed the read and want to see my Character Crisis with Robin (or any character I've mained so far) check out my YouTube channel! https://youtu.be/vAObJdtgEtU?si=rwNwZeZF_sl8NDSI