r/BoringCompany • u/Exact_Baseball • 1d ago
r/BoringCompany • u/OkFishing4 • Jun 18 '22
Why not build a train? Some answers.
This is not a screed against transit. Loop is public transit, it is NOT a private highway for entitled Tesla owners. You enter a Loop station on foot, pay a fare, get in a vehicle, ride to your destination then exit, just like rail.
I am also not advocating that we rip up all the great metros of the world and replace them with Loop. Rather, smaller or sparser non mega-cities should get to enjoy the benefits of grade-separated public transit too. Cities which do not need nor can afford subways will find Loop's lower entry price compelling. Loop is enlarging the total addressable market for grade-separated public transit.
Q: Why not build a train.
- US train systems are very expensive.
| Construction Costs per Mile USD | ||
|---|---|---|
| Percent Tunneled | U.S. | Non-U.S. |
| 0-20% | $118M | $81M |
| 20-80% | $323M | $286M |
| 80-100% | $1.2B ($511 excl. NYC) | $346M |
| LVCC Loop (2 surf.stn,1 sub.stn) | $62M/mile | $52.5M/.85mi |
- At LVCC, the 2nd place, $215M Doppelmeyer Cableliner bid was four times the fixed-price Loop bid.
- Loop is an express public transportation system providing fast non-stop travel to your destination. This allows for more stations providing better coverage and convenience. Traditional transit does not do this.
- US urban trains are typically slow to ride and arrive.
- Trip times will be considerably shorter with Loop since rides are express and intermediate stations skipped. Projected average travel speed for Loop is ~50mph, much higher than the US average subway speed of 20 mph.
- During the CES convention at LVCC the average wait time was 15 seconds, average wait times for subways are currently anywhere from 2-17 minutes with a on-peak median of 10 minutes.
Q: But public transit is better than yet another car lane.
- Loop IS public transit, it is not a private highway for Tesla owners. You arrive at a Loop station on foot, pay a fare, get in a vehicle, ride to your destination then exit, just like a subway. LVCC Loop is free for convention attendees. Vegas Loop will be available to ride for anyone who pays the fare.
- Vegas Loop is a privately funded public transit system, being built by TBC who is paying for the tunnels and businesses paying for their own stations. TBC has requested $0 public dollars for the project, all money and risk are being borne by TBC and its private partners.
- Royalties will be paid to Clark County and the City of Las Vegas for RoW access.
- Also see "induced demand" below.
Q: But trains can carry so many more people.
- Capacity needs in the US seems modest and the actual median ridership demand for US urban rail systems (subways,light rail, APMs, hybrid-rail, streetcars & commuter rail ) appears to be satisfied at 2400 pphpd.
- LVCC Loop is currently achieving 2400 pphpd with 4 pax/car @ 6s headways.
- Loop satisfies the need for low-entry-cost, expandable, grade-separated transit at a reasonable price, making it accessible to more cities and people. Loop doesn't need to match subway capacities one for one to be cost effective and useful.
| Percentile of Urban Rail Systems | Operational Peak Capacity (PPHPD) |
|---|---|
| 25% | 900 |
| 50% | 2400 |
| 75% | 4100 |
| 92% | 9600 |
Availability bias, which hampers critical thinking, likely underlies the many "Just build a train" comments. Due to this mental shortcut, people believe that vehicle capacity or other singular metric is more crucial than is often the case. Transit proposals need to be evaluated on a more detailed benefit cost ratio, which includes many more factors than a mere single metric.
Cost, system capacity, speed, frequency, coverage, and span all need to be taken into account when comparing a transit systems. Costs and ridership demands vary widely between jurisdictions even within the same country so each system needs to be treated individually. Using only one metric or universally applying a mode characteristic from one region/country to another is overly simplistic.
RMTransit's is a transit advocate whose video, Quality, not quantity: Why more is not better, is a good primer on this topic, and concludes by saying:
The TL;DR of this is really simple transit like most things consists of quantity and quality and any assessment based on just one of these metrics is bound to be a bad assessment. For example I just want Subway because it's comfortable or I just want to tram because I can get more of it for less money so the next time someone tells you they have an incredible plan because it will build so much transit ask them how many people can move and how fast it'll go.
This post is intended to provide information not commonly known or understood so that the most appropriate transit systems can be chosen.
Q: But cars carry so few people.
- More tunnels can be built.
- Higher Occupancy Battery Electric Vehicles carrying 8-16 people can be used without changes to the tunnel or station infrastructure. The capacity of 8-16 pax minivans running at highway intervals (2s) is surprising to most people (14000-28000 passenger per hour per direction).
- An 8-pax minivan running at 3 second headways provides 9600 pphpd, which can likely cover the ridership needs of the majority of US Urban rail systems.
- The entire Vegas Loop is targeted to serve 57000 passengers per hour.
Q: But the tunnels are dangerous, you can't get out and there is no ventilation.
- LVCC Loop satisfies National Fire Protection Association code (NFPA-130) for fixed guideway transit.
- Stations are less than 2500' feet apart and serve as exits to the surface, so no exits are required within each tunnel segment as per NFPA-130 6.3.1.4.
- Within the tunnel there is nearly three feet of space on either side of a Model 3 for passenger egress, including 18" of road surface on either side. Per NFPA-130 6.3.3.3 the 112" wide roadway can serve as the evacuation route which is normally clear and free of obstructions and touch hazards (such as a third rail).
- Dual redundant fans moving 400 000 cfm of air, provide a critical velocity of 312 fpm ensure to direct smoke downstream while egress & fire fighting happen upstream.
- The road deck has embedded water pipes and connection vaults supplying over 250gpm at 125psi. The underground station has sprinklers.
Source or Safety Presentation to LV Council and Scenario comparison with WMATA Subway incident
Q: But trains are more energy efficient.
- Not in the US, it is surprising for most people that a Model Y AWD LR averaging TWO passengers matches the energy efficiency of the NY Subway.
- Averaging only ONE person, the Model Y is 20% more efficient than the average US Subway, and 35% more efficient than average US light rail.
| Mode | Energy use per passenger mile (Wh/pax-mile) |
|---|---|
| ASIA Metro (MDPI) | 151 |
| NYCT Subway (NTD 2019) | 165 |
| 2 pax in Model Y (270 Wh/mile EPA * 1.22 YMMV,Charge Losses,extra person) | 165 |
| EUR Metro (MDPI) | 187 |
| 1.5 pax in Model Y (270 *1.21) | 218 |
| EUR LRT (MDPI) | 236 |
| ASIA LRT (MDPI) | 244 |
| 1 pax in Model Y (270 * 1.2 ) | 324 |
| Average US Subway (NTD 2019) | 409 |
| ASIA Bus (MDPI) | 422 |
| Average US Light Rail (NTD 2019) | 510 |
| EUR Bus (MDPI) | 582 |
| US Auto (1.5 pax avg. occ.) (TED 2019) | 817 |
| US Light Truck (1.8 pax) (TED) | 957 |
| US Transit Bus (7.5 pax) (TED) | 1358 |
Source NTD 2019 and The Energy Data (TED) Book and MDPI
Q: What about the disabled and wheelchair users.
Q: But what about "induced demand"? It's just another lane.
- Loop is not a public access highway nor are private cars legally permitted on its guideway. Its a public transit system whose right of way is closed to outside traffic and contains a limited number of TBC vehicles. The "induced demand" congestion of more vehicles entering the system is not applicable.
- Public transit "induced demand" is subdued but can manifest itself as increased waiting times or increased prices. Sustained high demand in the long term can result in additional tunnels, higher capacity vehicles or headway reduction through automation which can all serve to increase capacity.
Q: But maintaining trains is cheaper than cars.
- Average subway and Light Rail vehicle maintenance is 9 & 21 cents per passenger mile respectively from 2019 NTD ($Vehicle Maintenance/Passenger Miles Travelled)
- AAA puts 2019 car maintenance costs at 9 cents per VEHICLE Mile.
Q: But maintaining rail is cheaper than paving roads.
- Subway maintenance besides rail, also includes substations, signaling, switches and stations and averages $1.8 M per Directional Route Mile (DRM). Light Rail maintenance averaged $250K/DRM. 2019 NTD.
- Loop stations are simple above ground stations with minimal maintenance and cleaning costs. Rail electrical substations at mile long intervals are replaced with a few Tesla charging stations. Signaling, switch and rail maintenance is non-existent for Loop.
- In 2019 FHWA spent 61.5B in maintenance for 8.8M Lane Miles, resulting in less than $7000 per lane mile. Most damage is actually caused by semi-trucks and buses so running comparatively light Model X & Ys will result in less damage. The tunnel roadway is also protected from weather, freezing, salt and sun increasing its longevity.
Q: But I am still unconvinced as to the benefits of Loop.
r/BoringCompany • u/arikr • Sep 27 '22
Which posts, if any, should be stickied in this sub?
r/BoringCompany • u/Icy-Ant1302 • 2d ago
Tunnelling is getting cheaper
On one video (https://youtu.be/lCwlSOzmiv8?is=verunp5f7rwyuOFj) they mention that because they’re working on a newer Prufrock to bore and lay the lining at the same time which is effectively around double the speed, they can get the cost down to just $4-$5m a mile which to my surprise is the cost of a single lane highway in rural areas on the cheaper end of the scale.
The benefit of the boring network is it’s 3 dimensional so if there’s any traffic or bottlenecks they can just add a new tunnel next to the existing one with no disruption.
r/BoringCompany • u/FewSale9827 • 2d ago
Lots of media attention recently
It's super cool to see an influx of YouTube videos from private tours, and also seeing the progress of the Vegas Loop. As when the airport connector launches, I believe the whole system will get a lot more positive attention.
Still super bullish on the loop
r/BoringCompany • u/Icy-Ant1302 • 2d ago
Main strip tunnel starting soon?
I think they teased a little near the end of one of the recent tour videos that in 2-3 weeks they’re moving one of the machines to start boring under the strip which I gather will likely be the main resorts corridor which is super exciting!
I don’t think the tunnelling will take long, it’s the stations that’ll probably take the longest and won’t start opening until the end of next year I believe.
r/BoringCompany • u/h100y • 3d ago
One of the best videos on boring company
Chris asks a lot of questions that you hear on this sub and Steve Davis answers them enthusiastically and directly
r/BoringCompany • u/Exact_Baseball • 6d ago
CityNerd reviews Fountainebleau and uncompleted sections of the Vegas Loop
CityNerd again reviews uncompleted sections of the Vegas Loop
TLDR: CityNerd explores the Loop’s newest station at Fountainebleau and the route to the Airport and while he has some valid criticisms, he condemns the Loop as a farce despite the fact that so much of what he experienced are temporary workarounds with above-ground bypasses until the Airport tunnels and the Resorts World return tunnel are operational.
And pointedly, he has never ridden the completed sections of the Loop or during times of peak usage in order to see how well the Loop performs when it is fully operational under full load. A transit pundit who never rides the busiest lines during peak periods has an agenda and is not being serious about his analysis.
Details:
Ray Delahanty once again starts off making the classic mistake of alleging the Vegas Loop was pitched as a “HyperLoop-type system” which is of course not true as the Hyperloop concept is an ultra high speed (1,000km/h) inter-city vacuum-tube system, while the Vegas Loop is an intra-city network of road tunnels.
While Musk did oversell the Vegas Loop with his mention of 155mph speeds, the reality is that the current real-world average speed of 25mph in the short 0.4 mile tunnels of the current Loop is more than competitive with LRT and rail which averages as low as 9mph (at-grade LRT) or 17mph (NYC subway) or 22mph (London Tube).
The new soon-to-open Airport Loop tunnels will hit 60mph and The Boring Co has demonstrated Loop EVs smoothly hitting 127mph (205km/h) in the longer 1.14 mile LA test Loop tunnel.
Delahanty then suggests the “we should see the whole system online in 2076” by judging progress up till now completely ignoring the fact that as Steve Hill, CEO of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor’s Authority (LVCVA) has said:
“The process took a bit of time because the Vegas Loop is a new transportation system, not seen anywhere else in the world. We think the Boring Company and the county have reached an agreement on all of the specifics around what it takes to get a permit and build, what it takes to get a permit and operate, so we anticipate that the permitting process will speed up,” Hill said.
Next he critiques the newest Loop station at the Fountainebleau which does look like it could do with better signage. It should be noted that the hotels themselves are paying for their own stations and are responsible for all of their own signage so Fountainebleau needs to lift their game.
He then mentions the fact that some passengers tried to board a Loop EV at Fountainebleau station without booking tickets and criticises the driver for getting out and showing them how to book. You could either consider that as the Loop employee being extra helpful since the station wasn’t busy at that moment or you can rag on the Loop like Ray does for it not being as slick and impersonal as a train station.
Tesla’s autonomous Robotaxis in Austin, Dallas and Houston show how this operates with minimum friction with un-supervised Robotaxis that you use the app to book. Delahanty failed to mention that they are trialling autonomy in the Loop tunnels currently and should have that operational soon.
He points out that Foutainebleau's Loop station does not currently have a tunnel directly connected, but rather uses surface roads to cross over the short distance to the Convention Centre before the EVs enter the tunnels which is definitely less than optimal. Judging by the Vegas Loop map, it looks like that might be a temporary situation until the tunnels under Las Vegas Boulevard are completed:

The Escalator to the Hotel’s rideshare area was not working which is a fair criticism but again, not actually the fault of the Loop.
He then describes his experiences with the Loop connection to the Harry Reid Airport which he admits he did not research beforehand. If he had, he would have found out that this is a temporary, limited service that uses surface roads for the majority of the trip until the twin tunnels to the airport become operational. The tunnels have been bored, but the 7 stations running down Paradise Road are still currently being constructed.
He then complains about the short wait to get into the Resorts World tunnel again without mentioning that the traffic light there is also temporary until the return tunnel to that station is completed.
So in conclusion, Delahanty condemns the Loop as a farce while ignoring the elephant in the room which is that most of the stations and routes he visited are currently still under construction. No objective transit pundit would condemn an entire new railway system based off of riding sections that were still under construction with temporary above-ground road bypasses, but I guess CityNerd is not a particularly objective transit commentator.
r/BoringCompany • u/No_Aerie_5290 • 9d ago
First time seeing inside the Bastrop factory
r/BoringCompany • u/aBetterAlmore • Jun 22 '26
Boring Co. Vegas Loop station approved for UNLV campus
r/BoringCompany • u/h100y • Jun 22 '26
How Austin’s Project Connect went off the rails. Can the boring tunnels replace this at 1/10th the cost similar to Nashville ?
Seeking opinions and other discussion items around this. Nashville and Las Vegas have similar projects going on where they spend no money from tax payer.
Project connect increases Austin city property taxes by 20% for every home owner. This roughly comes to a 500 dollar increase in taxes every year for every homeowner in Austin.
r/BoringCompany • u/Ask_Individual • Jun 22 '26
Boring oil pipelines
With all the attention on the Strait of Hormuz, I was wondering if Boring Company might be suited to bore pipelines across oil producing countries to reduce dependence on the Strait and reach open ocean or alternative sea bodies?
Saudi and UAE have pipelines in place now, but not with sufficient capacity to replace the Strait of Hormuz volume. I think the Saudi pipeline is 750 miles. Are such distances longer than Boring Company could handle?
r/BoringCompany • u/Due-Kale-9368 • Jun 21 '26
Vegas Loop Westgate Airport tunnel entrance
r/BoringCompany • u/aBetterAlmore • Jun 18 '26
Boring Company buys West End Avenue building
r/BoringCompany • u/geoffreycarman • Jun 10 '26
Looking through the Las Vegas Open Maps...
Virgin hotel site is interesting. Maps must have been updated with new imagery.

This corner of E Harmon and Paradise you can see the multiple entrance and exits tunnels that we saw the line drawing for in:
https://www.reddit.com/r/realBoringCompanyfans/comments/1mr5ztn/virgin_surface_station_site_plan/
Specifically this image:

I admit, I am not sure I see how that overlays exactly...
Then closer to the airport, south of Flamingo, the original exit to the surface for this run, we see on the new imagery:

You can see on the left side, the two tunnels to the north. On the right side you can see I THINK them starting tunnels that will get them closer to the airport on the Palo Verde Dr plot of land. I guess surface interchanges between tunnels are much cheaper to build? This is the 4744 Paradise Rd plot, and I think this is the plan for it.

Anyone else see something I missed?
But I cannot figure out where those tunnels (If that is what I am seeing) should be surfacing at the other end. Any ideas from the crowds?
The Embassy Suites site looks all button up, so probably an underground mostly station.

The South Building, has a parking lot to the south of the station that has the tunnel to the Wynn I think. Previously, only saw one tunnel entrance, now we can see two.

Westgate has its second set of tunnels looking more complete, still work to do...

Bottom two are in service, top two are for the Paradise Rd line to the airport I believe.
r/BoringCompany • u/rocwurst • Jun 02 '26
SFGate posts most ignorant Vegas Loop Story to date
Katie Dowd writing for the SFGate has just posted a "review" of the Vegas Loop featuring all of the tired old misunderstandings and errors popularised by other critics:
- Lauds the 40,000 passengers in one day of the first subway system in 1863 without mentioning that the Loop handles up to 35,000 passengers per day on the days when it is open for large events
- Weirdly complains that the projected 90k per hour ridership of the completed Vegas Loop would mean that "every single resident and tourist need to ride the Loop multiple times per day to average 90,000 passengers an hour" evidently not understanding that figure would be for peak hour travel, not an hourly average all day long.
- Compares the Loop to the entire Tokyo Metro ignoring the fact it is competing with Light rail not mega multi-billion dollar subways.
- Does not mention that the 68 mile 104 station Vegas Loop is being built at zero cost to taxpayers compared to the $40 billion a similar subway would cost.
- Rides the Loop when it is closed so only goes between the two hotels that have a single courtesy car operational resulting in a long wait time and does not mention that wait times when the whole system is open and operational are sub-10 seconds.
- Does not mention that the current single-track tunnels to Resorts World and Westgate are temporary until the return tunnels are completed.
- Blows the small OHSA issues like "ankle-deep water" from the past out of all proportion
- Complains about the surface ride to the airport without mentioning that the tunnels to the airport have already been dug and will open soon.
- Confuses the vacuum tube intercity HyperLoop concept with the Intracity car-based Vegas Loop
- Complains it is not autonomous without mentioning FSD has been in the testing phase in the tunnels for the last 6 months.
- Complains about the simple above-ground Loop stations without acknowledging the advantages of every business in town having their own Loop station as cheap as $400K compared to subway stations that cost $600m - $1 billion each.
- Complains about the "small" 12.5 foot tunnels of the Loop without acknowledging that the 11 foot 8" tunnels of the London Tube are even smaller.
- Complains about the one video of "Teslas lined up in the tunnel during busy conventions" without acknowledging that train carriages are permanently lined up to each other and have to stop and wait at every station on the line compared to Loop EVs which go direct to their destination without any stops in between.
- Complains about possibly sharing a Loop EV with someone else without acknowledging that you're forced to cram in standing nose to armpit with hundreds of other people in a busy train.
- Fears a crash or fire in a Loop tunnel without acknowledging that everyone would simply be evacuated in their own comfy escape capsules (Loop EVs) compared to crashed or disabled trains where crowds of hundreds of people have to walk out on foot.
- Complains that there were no benches or shade at the Westgate station which is true, but neglects to acknowledge that when the Loop is fully operational with the return tunnels completed, wait times would be less than 10 seconds.
Sad to see that this SFGate story is widely viewed in the Nashville subreddit and of course taken at face value.
r/BoringCompany • u/aBetterAlmore • Jun 03 '26
Music City Loop - 6/1 Update
r/BoringCompany • u/2363Ben • May 28 '26
The Boring Company
Has anyone seen any progress reports on the Nashville Loop project…or is progress on this boondoggle only on a need to know basis that we don’t need to know?
r/BoringCompany • u/aBetterAlmore • May 18 '26
Paradise loop may open in time for Las Vegas Grand Prix
r/BoringCompany • u/SroyceA • May 05 '26
Wish I could share an idea with him.
Without connections and money the big ideas I have feel like they will never be realized. I don’t need to profit off them, but who would say no to getting paid for an idea. I want to share this here in hopes someone may have the ability to run with it.
Data centers are not going away. Why not build subterranean structures? It gets cold here in North Dakota. Also plenty of barren land. The beauty of this plan is the cows can still graze or gardens can still grow on the surface. I can see the whole design in my head. Using the ground for cooling, capturing the heat for energy generation. It’s a big sky full of many arrangements for how a concept like this could take shape.
r/BoringCompany • u/Sea-Juice1266 • Apr 27 '26
Las Vegas Monorail to be converted into an elevated loop line, according to Steve Hill, CEO of LVCVA
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/news/
April 26, 2026 08:18 Vegas Loop To Incorporate Monorail: In a speech on Thursday to the Southern Nevada Home Builders Association, Steve Hill, CEO of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, touched on plans that the LVCVA, which owns the Las Vegas Monorail, has for the elevated transportation system. It was the first time we've heard that the tourism authority plans to incorporate the Monorail into the growing Las Vegas Loop subterranean transportation system. "The Vegas Loop makes a huge difference whether you’re using it or not in taking people off the streets,” Hill said. “It will incorporate the Monorail. We’ll take the track off, put a pre-cast two-lane road on top, incorporate it into the Boring Company system, and use the existing Monorail stations. When you get to the MGM station, we’ll tie it into the parking garage and use it as part of a station with ramps to get in and out of it.” In other words, the Monorail's guideway will be an aboveground extension of the underground Loop on the east side of the Strip between the Sahara and MGM Grand -- without the onus of having to dig a four-mile-long tunnel behind the hotel-casinos.
This conversion is expected to take place after 2034, when the monorail is scheduled for decommissioning as a result of maintenance and support challenges.
r/BoringCompany • u/aBetterAlmore • Apr 25 '26
The Boring Co. debuts new tunnel machine in Nashville. What to know
r/BoringCompany • u/WxxTX • Apr 20 '26
2nd tunnel Westgate to the airport is finished Boring work.
x.comr/BoringCompany • u/fortune • Mar 30 '26
Elon Musk’s name alone is turning Nashville residents against his tunnel project, survey shows
Elon Musk’s Boring Company is tunneling underneath Nashville and residents aren’t happy—particularly that it’s Musk who is doing it.
A new survey by Vanderbilt University found that 35% of Nashville residents generally opposed the plan to use Tesla vehicles, driven by trained drivers, to transport people between downtown Nashville and Nashville International Airport via the Boring Company’s underground Music City Loop.
Yet, when researchers mentioned Musk’s name explicitly, the percentage of residents opposed to the project jumped to 51%—a slight majority.
“The public’s support for Elon Musk’s tunnel project is heavily influenced by partisanship,” the researchers found, underscoring how deeply Musk’s political activity now shapes public perception of even his private business ventures.