r/AlignmentChartFills • u/TheEnlight • 6h ago
Countries What two countries have very surprisngly not existed at the same time?
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u/VJRoRo 5h ago
The Mayan and the Inca empires never coexisted
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u/CydewynLosarunen 3h ago
The Maya were independent city states. They never really had an "empire" in the standard sense. There were still independent Mayan city states at the time of the Inca.
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u/wild_dark_soul 2h ago
Huge asterisk here. Maya civilization was still around during the XV and XVI centuries, but not as prominent or powerful as it was during the first millennium AD. Plus, you're comparing an empire with a decentralized culture, which makes this tricky to pair
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u/Uwantmoneyugetnutty 2h ago
Yes they did. They weren’t at their peak, but Mayan city states remained even after the Aztecs were conquered.
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u/Salt_Satisfaction_94 6h ago
Not coexisting but I think it’s funny that the republic of Texas and the Holy Roman Empire missed each other by about 30 years
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u/Operation_Pig 3h ago
It really isn't that surprising given the napoleon that separated the 2 states. Hell Texas had to wait for Mexico to get its independence as well before it broke off itself.
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u/AmbitiousDrama9439 5h ago
England & Spain. England joined with Scotland to form Great Britain in 1707. Spain was a composite monarchy until 1716 when the crown of Aragon merged with Castille to form the formally unified Spanish state
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u/TheLordOfTheKinks2 5h ago
Aragon merged with Castille in 1475 with the "Concordia de Segovia" act. Both kingdoms kept their laws, frontiers and institutions, but one monarch ruled both kingdoms from that moment.
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u/RoiDrannoc 4h ago
That's still two different countries under a personal union. The Commonwealth and Charles don't change the fact that Australia and Canada are two different countries.
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u/TheLordOfTheKinks2 3h ago
You're wrong. This is most like England and Wales than Australia and Canada. Just one country.
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u/RoiDrannoc 2h ago
You're wrong. You said it yourself they kept separate laws, frontiers and institutions, so Castille and Aragon were not like current days England and Wales that are parts of a singular entity
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u/TheLordOfTheKinks2 2h ago
The king was called King of Spain. That ends the question.
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u/0oO1lI9LJk 1h ago
James VI (d. 1625) styled himself "King of Great Britain" even though England and Scotland remained two distinct and separate kingdoms until 1707
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u/jackangelus 1h ago
I'm afraid that's not true. It was a personal union between Fernando de Aragón and Isabel de Castilla and each kept ruling their respective kingdoms without meddling in the other's decisions.
This fact is even more blantant knowing that Isabel was a much more authoritarian monarch (in the sense that there were no institutions limiting her and aristocrats were not as powerful together as to contest the queen's power, mainly due to the towns and small nobility support) than Fernando, who still had to deal with the Courts of Aragón and the Councils.
Fernando ruled both kingdoms only after Isabel's decease in 1504 until 1516. When their grandson Carlos was crowned he still was king of Castilla and king of Aragón as separate entities.
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u/throwawayyyyygay 4h ago
England is officially considered a country within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and northern Ireland. So I don’t think it fits the prompt.
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u/kingfiish 4h ago
"Kingdom of England" would be correct as that ceased to exist after the acts of union formed the Kingdom of Great Britain. "England" is still a country though of course.
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u/Ro0z 4h ago
Outside the UK and their former empire, it's only considered a country in a sense like "Holland" is considered a country, i.e. former name people got used to.
Even Belarus was more of a country during the post WW2 Soviet Union era since they at least had some phony UN recognition.
But no, if it's not an independent state in charge of their borders, foreign affairs and the military, it's not a country regardless of how you decide to call the major subdivisions of your actual country.
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u/spicyherb_ 4h ago
You can make up whichever definition you feel like, it doesn't stop the United Kingdom comprising constituent countries...the clue is in the name. Your definition for a country is arbitrary.
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u/AutomixMen 1h ago
The definition of a country is other countries agree its a country. That's pretty much the only factor. Otherwise your definition is just as arbitrary.
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u/gripepe 3h ago
Was there at any point a "King of Spain" and "King/Queen of England" coexistence?
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u/TheLordOfTheKinks2 2h ago
King Philip II of Spain and Queen Elisabeth I of England coexisted between 1558 and 1598. 40 years.
436
u/Giubros25 6h ago
The United Kingdom and the thirteen colonies
As the UK officially was proclaimed in 1801 by merging the crowns of Great Britain and Ireland
44
u/waluigieWAAH 6h ago
Would the colonies be considered a country?
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u/Giubros25 5h ago
If it isn’t then as a substitute I will give the republic of Venice, given to Austria in 1797 following the treaty of campoformio
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u/ufold2ez 3h ago
The United States was established in 1776. The Constitution was ratified in 1788.
The US and the UK never coexisted.28
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u/EvilCatArt 4h ago
I don't think the Thirteen Colonies count because they weren't united until the revolution, and were legally under British rule anyways.
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u/ufold2ez 3h ago
The United States was established in 1776. The Constitution was ratified in 1788.
The US and the UK never coexisted.3
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u/CeolSilver 3h ago
The United Kingdom has existed since at least 1707. It just didn’t call itself the United Kingdom until 1801.
It’s like saying Czechia exist until 2016 because it changed its name from the Czech Republic. It’s quite clearly the same constitutional entity.
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u/Neither-General-2172 2h ago
But the Act of Union from 1801 dissolved the Irish Parliament when it merged with the UK into the other UK. So at least for the Irish people it would be more than just a name change.
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u/0oO1lI9LJk 1h ago
Also the phrase "United Kingdom of Great Britain" is used four times in the 1707 Articles of Union, it just isn't explicitly declared as the name of the state.
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u/No_Song_4022 6h ago
The Kingdom of France (ended in 1848) and the Kingdom of Italy (started in 1861) is not something many will know.
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u/Ghi102 5h ago
I feel like anyone who knows a little bit about european history will know that Italy and Germany are both fairly new countries.
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u/Beermeneer532 4h ago
Although not many will know that italy is older than germany. Unless you're italian of course
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u/PikoX2 4h ago
Idk, here in Europe the two big unifications (Italy, Germany) as well as their timelines were taught very thoroughly in high school.
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u/St3fano_ 1h ago
In Europe people would hardly define the age of a country considering only its most recent iteration. Most nations share the same medieval roots, the fact those didn't fall neatly under single independent states is kind of a given and commonly understood, although I understand how people from the new world could struggle to fully understand the concept since they grew up in countries that were nation-states for basically the entirety of their existence.
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u/Funny-Efficiency1659 4h ago edited 33m ago
It's unfortunately incorrect. The Kingdom of Italy kinda existed previously, contemporarily to the Kingdom of France. Not exactly the same country, of course, but it had the same name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy_(Holy_Roman_Empire))
edit:
To clarify my point, because it seems my comment confused a couple of people: there was a Kingdom of Italy that existed at the same time as the Kingdom of France, so saying it's "very surprising that the two never coexisted" is incorrect.
The second Kingdom of Italy (or the third, depending on how you count it), the one ruled by the House of Savoy, could never have existed if the first Kingdom of Italy had not ended.
It's the same as saying, "It's very surprising that the French First Republic and the French Second Republic never coexisted." why it should be? they are successive iteration.
You're just picking the last iteration of something that existed before and saying that it's weird that it did not existed earlier.
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u/St3fano_ 1h ago
The modern Kingdom of Italy never officially claimed continuity with the medieval one (nor the Napoleonic one) though, mostly to avoid to excessively piss off the Austrians and the Germans.
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u/yaboiphilly1999 4h ago
Aztec and Maya Empires
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u/CydewynLosarunen 3h ago
The Maya never really had a unified, centralized empire in the sense you mean. There were independent Mayan city states co-extant with the Méxica (Aztecs).
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u/RepresentativeBig211 6h ago
Republic of Ireland (start 1922) and Austria-Hungary (ended 1918).
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u/CormacMcG123 4h ago
ireland only became a republic in 1949 when the republic of ireland act was passed, we gained "independence" in 1922 as the irish free state, but we remained as a dominion within the british commonwealth.
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u/matttax 6h ago
Soviet Union and Bolivarian (socialist) Venezuela
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u/pisowiec 4h ago
You must be young mate.
We're talking about events that happened at the start of a recent decade and at the end.
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u/Amazing_Flounder_510 6h ago
The Czech Republic and Yugoslavia
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u/grublepop 6h ago
Yugoslavia existed under the name Yugoslavia until 2003 when they changed to Serbia and Montenegro which dissolved in 2006, Czech Republic was created in 1994 I believe. So No they have co-existed
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u/Accurate-Card3828 5h ago
Yes, I remeber that one as I bought the ticket for football match Finland vs. Yugoslavia in june 2003 but instead Finland played against Serbia-Montenegro. They couldn't change the tickets after first ones were sold.
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u/submarinecleaner 1h ago
Just a clarification. End of Czechoslovak federative republic was at 31/12/1992. At 1/1/1993 Czech and Slovak republic was created. Fun fact: part of agreement was that new republics will start using a new flags. Yet Czechs ignored this agreement and just kept old, and current, flag.
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u/Amazing_Flounder_510 6h ago
nope it changed to Federal State of Yugoslavia.. same same but different
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u/grublepop 5h ago
Yugoslavia = Yugoslavia nothing different to me, with that logic you can say Yugoslavia never coexisted with Czechoslovakia by saying it’s name changed
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u/AwesomePBST 6h ago
Technically not true - Serbia and Montenegro was known as the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia until 2003
But that is basicly a rump state of the old SFR /Kingdom of Yugoslavia
-4
u/Amazing_Flounder_510 6h ago
yep but it wasn't know as solely Yugoslavia and it didn't encapsulate the same area.
it's like saying the czech republic existed before 1993, because there is "czech" in czechoslovakia
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u/Vicktor54 6h ago
Russian Empire × Jugoslavia
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u/TheEnlight 6h ago
Rules:
"Coexistence" in this chart simply refers to if the countries exist at the same time. They don't have to be allies. They can be enemies, or simply indifferent to each other.
Countries suggested can either be currently existing (for example: Italy, Kazakhstan, Malawi) or historical (for example: Roman Empire, Sumer, Iroquois Confederacy)
The comment with the most upvotes will be chosen, as long as it fits the suggested criteria.
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u/GoldenEagle3009 6h ago
Vatican City and the Third Reich
I got my dates mixed up, sorry
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u/DukeDevorak 4h ago
New Kingdom of Egypt and Zhou Dynasty of China.
Many did not realize that ancient Egypt is practically older than any other continually existing major civilizations today -- whether it be Romans, Greeks, Aryan Indians (very different from Indus Valley civilization), or even Chinese. And the peers of ancient Egyptian civilization -- Babylonians, Hittites, Indus Valley civilization -- are all but fallen by the time ancient Egypt became a client state of Achaemenid Persia.
Although Chinese civilization may claim its origin all the way from Xia and Shang dynasties, their relationship is more akin to the Mycenaeans and the Greeks -- though Mycenaeans are undoubtedly the ancestors of Greek civilization, most of the elements of ancient Greek culture were evolved from post-Dark Age Hellenic city states, just like how most of the ancient Chinese cultural elements were evolved from Zhou Dynasty.
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u/Fyleveld 4h ago
The First Egyptian Dynasty and The Akkadian Empire
They were separated by almost a milennia.
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u/Beautiful-Orange-507 4h ago
Very surprising × No coexistence
Ancient Egypt and Mayan Empire
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u/CydewynLosarunen 3h ago
The Mayans didn't really have an empire in the traditional sense. They were independent city states ruled by different families, in contrast to Egypt's centralized monarchy under the Pharoah.
They also just barely co-exist with the earliest Mayan cultures contemporary to the latest period of Egyptian history.
0
u/Zmeos 4h ago
The Kingdom of Norway and the Dutch republic.
The Kingdom of Norway has history going back to the Viking age. But it effectively ceased to exist in 1536, when it was declared a Danish province. Only to reappear again in 1814. Enough time for the Dutch republic (1588-1795) to rise and disappear again.
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u/Beermeneer532 4h ago
I hate to be a nerd here but it should be the french empire not the kingdom of france. France remained an empire with the Bonaparte's as their emperors after waterloo
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u/BathRemote2167 4h ago
the papal states and the german empire, they missed each other by about a year
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u/Ikairos-seeker 4h ago
Not quite what’s being asked, but the Byzantine empire missed the discovery of the americas by less than 50 years
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u/ufold2ez 3h ago edited 2h ago
To rephrase the current top comment:
::The US and the UK::
The 'United States' was established with the Declaration of Independence in 1776. Prior to this, the colonies were part of Great Britain.
The US was referred to as "The United Colonies" between 1776 and 1783 when the Treaty of Paris was signed. However, the Articles of Confederation in 1777 refer to the "United States of America."
The United Kingdom was founded on January 1, 1801, when the Acts of Union 1800 merged the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland.
Therfore... The US barely predates the UK, except for a small window where you could argue that the "United Colonies" was the official language between 1777 and 1783.
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u/NoCSForYou 3h ago
No...
The USA formed in 1776-present The UK existed from 1800- +
It's not like the USA stopped existing after 1788.
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u/ufold2ez 2h ago edited 2h ago
Derp. You right.
I misunderstood the prompt.I have edited my response to be both more accurate and more clear.
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u/AwkwardBarnOwl 1m ago
Egypt and the Mali Federation. The Mali Federation was a brief country lasting from 1959-1960. However, Egypt wasn't technically a country between 1958 and 1961. It was part of the United Arab States with Syria. This means, the short lived Mali Federation, a small state in the late 50s, never existing alongside Egypt, one of the oldest countries in the world.
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