r/whichbike Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

406 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike 5h ago

Is this a good bike?

Thumbnail
gallery
5 Upvotes

I’m looking at buying my first road bike and found this Specialized Roubaix on Facebook Marketplace for $900.
I’m around 5’8” with a 32” inseam, so I’m also wondering if 54cm is the right size or if I should be looking for something different.

The seller’s description:
Specialized Roubaix, 54cm
Original owner
Bought from Bike Barn
Shimano 105 groupset with newer 105 brake calipers
FSA 172.5mm cranks
Newer chain and bar tape
New tires and tubes
Specialized Power saddle (143mm)
Shorter, higher-rise stem
Cane Creek headset bearings replaced last summer
Cables and housing replaced two years ago
Never crashed and well maintained
Comes with flat pedals for a test ride

I don’t know what year the bike is. My long-term goal is to get into triathlons, but I’m a complete beginner and probably won’t be racing for a few years. I’m mainly looking for a reliable road bike that I can train on for a long time.

A few questions:
Does $900 seem like a fair price?
Does anything in the description raise any red flags?
Does the bike appear to be in good condition based on what’s listed?
Is a 54cm likely the right size for someone who’s 5’8” with a 32” inseam?
Would a Roubaix be a good bike for training and eventually doing triathlons, or would I be better off looking for something else?


r/whichbike 5h ago

Old and cheap(er) or newer and not cheap?

Thumbnail
gallery
4 Upvotes

Hi! looking to get some input on a new bike. Looking to get into mtb, more specifically xc racing. This will be my first “real” mtb. There’s some good deals on newer platforms on marketplace that are very tempting (3-4k range), but also this older scott spark for a good bit less (the seller will take 1100 for it). I am torn between spending more on a more future proof platform now, vs going cheaper for now, and eventually upgrading down the line. Compared to a 2019 bike, are there real noticable differences upgrading to something newer? Is it worth the extra 2-3k?

Thanks for your input!!


r/whichbike 26m ago

Thoughts?

Thumbnail
gallery
Upvotes

Would be first bike and is the one I have been interested in


r/whichbike 33m ago

Is this used Saracen Urban ESC hybrid worth it ? £90 (~$120)

Thumbnail
gallery
Upvotes

I plan on using a bike for simple commuting to gym, errands etc. Not looking for anything too pricey


r/whichbike 1h ago

Torn ACL - what bike?

Upvotes

10 weeks ago I tore my ACL and 4 weeks ago I had reconstructive surgery on my ACL and my meniscus.

The physiotherapist recommends that I in a couple of weeks begin a little cycling/spinning. I used to do spinning classes a couple of years ago, but now I want to buy a bike.

Ideally I would like a solution I can use indoor (stationary) and when my knee feels more comfortable I want to do outside trips.

I’ve been researching and I find it nearly impossible to find the right/best solution. I’m 32 years old, 185cm - I was recommended trek domane al 2 gen 4 as the best value for money. But again I have no clue, and I’m pretty sure that if I go to the bike shop, they will most likely recommend me the option they earn most on.

My budget is around 1100-1300 USD for the bike.

Any suggestions for a bike and a hometrainer?


r/whichbike 1h ago

Long time lurker first time posting!! Need help figuring out what type of bike I need. ASAP

Upvotes

I’ve been biking to work a little bit before this winter started I want to say? It’s been a couple months I started out with a cheap e bike then got a new bike didn’t do research and got a mountain bike. Got hit on said bike and now it bikes like shit. I bike 6 miles into and from work there’s two hills on my way in one hill I walk up and the other I can bike up slowly. Help a guy out PLEASE!! I’m thinking a basic road bike or gravel bike I just want the smoothest ride into work and something I could put stuff like a back rack on!!


r/whichbike 5h ago

What bike should I get that can do a bit of everything?

2 Upvotes

Title, I've been testing going car free for a while now with my trek fx 1 gen 4, so far I'm loving it and want to upgrade.

I want something that can handle to and from work, errands like laundry and groceries, to weekend length bikepacking and touring around LA.

What bike is recommended? I'm mostly on payment and want something that isn't too slow, but can carry stuff and can take bigger tires, most likely will go with a two wheel setup.

Right now I'm looking into the kona rove, surly bridge club, and the all city space horse.


r/whichbike 6h ago

cheap first fixie recommendations?

2 Upvotes

ive been wanting to get a fixie for a while, i currently ride a old race mtb. ive been looking at facebook marketplace and found a retrospec harper for $130 and another for $150 with new rims, and thats most of what i can afford right now. i just want a cheap and reliable bike that is good for everyday riding, going fast, slow, and everything in between. thank you to everyone who responds!


r/whichbike 2h ago

How much should i expect for a used Kent Trouvaille.

1 Upvotes

I want to get into mountain biking and i have heard the Kent Trouvaille is the best bang for your buck bike and wanna get a used one so how much should i expect for a used one.


r/whichbike 2h ago

Worth $450 for a beginner road bike?

1 Upvotes

I’m looking at buying my first road bike, specifically to train for (and then race) an Ironman 70.3.

I found this 2016 Trek Domane 2 Series on OfferUp for $450.
There's no seller’s description but they included quite a few pictures.

I’m around 6 ft tall with a 32” inseam, so I’m also wondering if 56 cm is the right size?
Would this be a good option for my first road bike to train and race an Ironman 70.3?
Is $450 a fair price?
Does anything in the pictures raise any red flags?

Any thoughts/feedback would be greatly appreciated!!


r/whichbike 3h ago

Please help me choose my new Bike

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I’m looking to buy a new gravel bike and would love to hear your thoughts.

I’m 176 cm tall with a 79 cm inseam, and comfort is by far my biggest priority. I’m looking for a bike with a relaxed, upright riding position rather than something aggressive or race-oriented. I’d also like a 1x drivetrain, and my budget is between €1,800 and €2,400.

At the moment, I’m mainly considering the Cube Nuroad SLX, the Trek Checkpoint ALR 5 Gen 3, and the Cannondale Topstone Carbon 3.

Has anyone here ridden any of these bikes? Which one did you find the most comfortable, especially for longer rides? If you think there’s another gravel bike that would suit what I’m looking for even better, I’d be happy to hear your recommendations.

Thanks a lot!


r/whichbike 3h ago

Switching from your average City/Hybrid bike to Road bike

1 Upvotes

Hello,

I’m looking to buy my first road bike with drop handle bars. I’m coming from only riding a “regular” hybrid bike with a stack of ~650mm and a reach of ~500mm.

How challenging will it be to adjust to a road bike with a stack of ~520mm and a reach of ~375mm.

Dimensions:

Height: 168CM
Wingspan: 168CM

Weight lifting background and recently started running. Willing to put in the work to become a fitter, more flexible cyclists.


r/whichbike 4h ago

First time bike buyer

1 Upvotes

Hey all, looking to buy my first bike - i’ve previously ridden a couple of bikes but they’ve all been second hand, so i have no clue what they are/how they perform my primary motivating factor in getting this bike is to make commuting to/from my hobbies abit easier (3km for wakeboarding/7km windsurfing) as my current bike is kinda heavy and doesn’t have that many gears. i cycle about 2-3 times a week and have grown up cycling so am decently comfortable

my height is 178cm and my weight is 72kg; i will primarily be cycling along pavement (cracks, branches, small rocks are common along the roads/park connectors here) and i am looking at an old specialized roubaix

it has the following specs: aluminium frame (no idea on the weight) shimano 105 groupset (2x10) bonteger wheelset rim brakes (link: Check out 'Red Specialized Roubaix Road Bike with Accessories', available at S$520 on #Carousell https://carousell.app.link/pWk5ciRiZ4b)

would this be a good replacement bike just for commuting along pavement for a decent rider? no grand ambitions for this bike - mostly along road, occasional small gravel


r/whichbike 11h ago

2011 synapse carbon 4 rival What’s the correct offer?

Thumbnail
gallery
3 Upvotes

Seller says it had been ridden only a handful of times before it was shelved. Asking $750

Edit: I’m looking for a bike I can outfit to do an Ironman in next May. How much would I be looking at putting back into it to make it race ready?


r/whichbike 10h ago

Looking at buying Electra Amsterdam

Post image
2 Upvotes

I’m looking at buying like a city commuting bike (nothing crazy, just gentle exercise if you will) in Brisbane, and come across Second-Hand Electra Amsterdam sport d9, 9 speed in metallic green (2009 special) for about $250 - there’s nothing wrong with it (like perfectly functional & no rust etc looks great) I’m wondering if this is worth it? Recommendations? I just love the colour and look of it. I’m about 5’6/7, but I’ve had 2 major surgeries in the past 2 years so I just want some basic exercise. Attached a photo for reference. Help 😔


r/whichbike 7h ago

Trek Madone 6.5 for $1,350?

Post image
1 Upvotes

r/whichbike 8h ago

Canyon Endurace AllRoad or X-LAB RS5

1 Upvotes

Hello All,

I'm looking for a new road (gravel-ish) bike. I'll ride mostly on pavement and occasionally go on gravel, and I might try some bikepacking someday.

After reading a lot about the AllRoad, I'm sure it will suit me. However, compared to the RS5, the latter sounds like a no-brainer, similar prices, better specs, superb finish, etc.

My main concerns about the RS5 are after-sales support and custom parts, such as seat posts. Also, I'm in Canada, with no dealers close by to try these bikes first.

What are your thoughts?
Are there any other bikes you would recommend?
Should I forget about a new bike and go with a used one instead?


r/whichbike 8h ago

Bike frame identification

1 Upvotes

Recently seen this in the market place but cant seem to identify which frame this is, can you guys help out? thanks


r/whichbike 9h ago

Pre-owned Carbon Road Bikes for Review

1 Upvotes

Hello,

I'm in search of a Carbon Endurance Road Bike. I found these bikes on Facebook Marketplace.

May I request your review on both the bike's price and components? Is the price reasonable?

A little bit of info about me -

I own a Triban RC 100 (an aluminum frame and handlebar with 1x7 gear system). I consistently hit 50+ KMS on a weekend, and I enjoy the sport. I'm planning to join a group next week where we try to ride for 80+ kms each day for 4 days. Therefore, I'm looking for a carbon road bike (less weight) that can climb hills with ease. I live in Ontario, Canada.

Specialized Roubaix SL4 Elite - 105 - 2x10 - C$1750

Specialized Roubaix SL4 Elite (C$1850)

Specifications & Upgrades

* FACT 8r carbon frame and fork
* Shimano 105 2×10-speed groupset
* Campagnolo Zonda clincher wheelset (barely used)
* Continental Grand Prix 5000 tires with very low mileage
* Carbon seatpost
* Specialized Body Geometry saddle
* Look Keo blades pedals included

Price: C$1850

Specialized Roubaix SL4 Elite - 105 - 2x11 - C$1350

Specialized Roubaix SL4 Élite (C$1350)

Components:

- Shimano 105 2x11
- Odometer

Price: C$1350

Cannondale Supersix Evo full Ultegra Di2 Carbon ($C1750)

Components;
- Ultegra di2 groupset
- Carbon frameset
- Odemeter

Price: C$1750


r/whichbike 11h ago

Suggestion for a new/ used bike

1 Upvotes

Hi all, I am looking at buying a bike for myself, upgrading from a Raleigh Terrain 30 which is around 16 years old.

Budget max 50k and I was looking at bergamont sweep 3i, giant escape, scott sub cross 50

I would mainly ride on south, central delhi area, 3-4 times a week for around 30-40 mins.

Kindly suggest which model to go for or anything besides these bikes or if anyone is selling a good condition bike that too will do.


r/whichbike 11h ago

Ridley Grifn RS Force AXS XPLR 1x12 Gravel Bike

1 Upvotes

On sale at Evans for £3779. Is it worth it, do you think 🤔?


r/whichbike 18h ago

Upgrading from bike share to my first real bike, torn between two options 🙏🏻

Thumbnail
gallery
3 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I tried bike share a year ago for the first time and it completely opened up the city for me despite how bulky it was.

After a year of cycling, I feel like I am finally ready to buy my first personal bike for weekend exploring and casual urban errands.

I am torn between two options that both cost exactly $600 CAD new.

Decathlon Elops LD 500 ($600 CAD)

  • Frame & Fork: 6061 aluminum frame, rigid steel fork
  • Drivetrain: 1x9-speed Microshift (11-36T cassette, single 36T front ring)
  • Brakes: Tektro aluminum V-brakes (rim brakes)
  • Wheels & Tires: Double-walled aluminum rims, 32 spokes, screw-on anti-theft axles, 700x38c puncture-resistant tires
  • Included Extras: Built-in dynamo automatic lights, 27 kg rear rack, full mudguards, chain guard, and kickstand

Louis Garneau Setter 9.0 Disc ($600 CAD)

  • Frame & Fork: 700C aluminum frame, rigid steel fork
  • Drivetrain: 3x8-speed Shimano Altus/Tourney mix (48/38/28T crankset, 12-32T cassette)
  • Brakes: Shimano hydraulic disc brakes
  • Wheels & Tires: Double-wall aluminum rims, disc-compatible alloy hubs, 700x28c tires
  • Included Extras: only a kickstand

The Dilemma:

The Decathlon is an all-inclusive package for $600. It has wider tires (more comfortable and grippier?), but it only comes with rim brakes.

The Setter 9.0 have hydraulic disc brakes, but it might need $100+ of accessories to make it commute ready and I might have to swap into thicker tires.

Do you guys think the hydraulic brake and performance upgrade of the Setter 9.0 is worth the extra cost for a beginner, or is the Decathlon also a great buy?

Open to hear other suggestions too, around the $600 CAD range.

Thank you 🙏🏻


r/whichbike 20h ago

Worth $800?

Thumbnail
gallery
5 Upvotes

Seller believes it’s a 2016. Claims to barely be ridden which I believe looking at the gears. Pretty much has everything I’ve been looking for, been struggling to find an XL bike with ultegra under $1000. After reading this sub though, I realize I don’t know as much as bikes yet as I thought and don’t want to overpay for a bike that’s not worth it. What do you guys think about this one?


r/whichbike 13h ago

Suggestion for a new/ used bike

1 Upvotes

Hi all, I am looking at buying a bike for myself, upgrading from a Raleigh Terrain 30 which is around 16 years old.

Budget max 50k and I was looking at bergamont sweep 3i, giant escape, scott sub cross 50

I would mainly ride on south, central delhi area, 3-4 times a week for around 30-40 mins.

Kindly suggest which model to go for or anything besides these bikes or if anyone is selling a good condition bike that too will do.