r/genewolfe Dec 23 '23

Gene Wolfe Author Influences, Recommendations, and "Correspondences" Master List

132 Upvotes

I have recently been going through as many Wolfe interviews as I can find. In these interviews, usually only after being prompted, he frequently listed other authors who either influenced him, that he enjoyed, or who featured similar themes, styles, or prose. Other times, such authors were brought up by the interviewer or referenced in relation to Wolfe. I started to catalogue these mentions just for my own interests and further reading but thought others may want to see it as well and possibly add any that I missed.

I divided it up into three sections: 1) influences either directly mentioned by Wolfe (as influences) or mentioned by the interviewer as influences and Wolfe did not correct them; 2) recommendations that Wolfe enjoyed or mentioned in some favorable capacity; 3) authors that "correspond" to Wolfe in some way (thematically, stylistically, similar prose, etc.) even if they were not necessarily mentioned directly in an interview. There is some crossover among the lists, as one would assume, but I am more interested if I left anyone out rather than if an author is duplicated. Also, if Wolfe specifically mentioned a particular work by an author I have tried to include that too.

EDIT: This list is not final, as I am still going through resources that I can find. In particular, I still have several audio interviews to listen to.

Influences

  • G.K. Chesterton
  • Marks’ Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers (never sure if this was a jest)
  • Jack Vance
  • Proust
  • Faulkner
  • Borges
  • Nabokov
  • Tolkien
  • CS Lewis
  • Charles Williams
  • David Lindsay (A Voyage to Arcturus)
  • George MacDonald (Lilith)
  • RA Lafferty
  • HG Wells
  • Lewis Carroll
  • Bram Stoker (* added after original post)
  • Dickens (* added after original post; in one interview Wolfe said Dickens was not an influence but elsewhere he included him as one, so I am including)
  • Oz Books (* added after original post)
  • Mervyn Peake (* added after original post)
  • Ursula Le Guin (* added after original post)
  • Damon Knight (* added after original post)
  • Arthur Conan Doyle (* added after original post)
  • Robert Graves (* added after original post)

Recommendations

  • Kipling
  • Dickens
  • Wells (The Island of Dr. Moreau)
  • Algis Budrys (Rogue Moon)
  • Orwell
  • Theodore Sturgeon ("The Microcosmic God")
  • Poe
  • L Frank Baum
  • Ruth Plumly Thompson
  • Tolkien (Lord of the Rings)
  • John Fowles (The Magus)
  • Le Guin
  • Damon Knight
  • Kate Wilhelm
  • Michael Bishop
  • Brian Aldiss
  • Nancy Kress
  • Michael Moorcock
  • Clark Ashton Smith
  • Frederick Brown
  • RA Lafferty
  • Nabokov (Pale Fire)
  • Robert Coover (The Universal Baseball Association)
  • Jerome Charyn (The Tar Baby)
  • EM Forster
  • George MacDonald
  • Lovecraft
  • Arthur Conan Doyle
  • Neil Gaiman
  • Harlan Ellison
  • Kathe Koja
  • Patrick O’Leary
  • Kelly Link
  • Andrew Lang (Adventures Among Books)
  • Michael Swanwick ("Being Gardner Dozois")
  • Peter Straub (editor; The New Fabulists)
  • Douglas Bell (Mojo and the Pickle Jar)
  • Barry N Malzberg
  • Brian Hopkins
  • M.R. James
  • William Seabrook ("The Caged White Wolf of the Sarban")
  • Jean Ingelow ("Mopsa the Fairy")
  • Carolyn See ("Dreaming")
  • The Bible
  • Herodotus’s Histories (Rawlinson translation)
  • Homer (Pope translations)
  • Joanna Russ (* added after original post)
  • John Crowley (* added after original post)
  • Cory Doctorow (* added after original post)
  • John M Ford (* added after original post)
  • Paul Park (* added after original post)
  • Darrell Schweitzer (* added after original post)
  • David Zindell (* added after original post)
  • Ron Goulart (* added after original post)
  • Somtow Sucharitkul (* added after original post)
  • Avram Davidson (* added after original post)
  • Fritz Leiber (* added after original post)
  • Chelsea Quinn Yarbro (* added after original post)
  • Dan Knight (* added after original post)
  • Ellen Kushner (Swordpoint) (* added after original post)
  • C.S.E Cooney (Bone Swans) (* added after original post)
  • John Cramer (Twister) (* added after original post)
  • David Drake
  • Jay Lake (Last Plane to Heaven) (* added after original post)
  • Vera Nazarian (* added after original post)
  • Thomas S Klise (* added after original post)
  • Sharon Baker (* added after original post)
  • Brian Lumley (* added after original post)

"Correspondences"

  • Dante
  • Milton
  • CS Lewis
  • Joanna Russ
  • Samuel Delaney
  • Stanislaw Lem
  • Greg Benford
  • Michael Swanwick
  • John Crowley
  • Tim Powers
  • Mervyn Peake
  • M John Harrison
  • Paul Park
  • Darrell Schweitzer
  • Bram Stoker (*added after original post)
  • Ambrose Bierce (* added after original post)

r/genewolfe 4h ago

Yellow & Green - my thoughts after finishing Claw of the Conciliator

17 Upvotes

Spoilers obviously.

I was wholly impressed by the momentum maintained from Shadow of the Torturer. Claw has some absolutely breathtaking moments, and I get chills nearly every chapter.

A standout of Claw was Jonas. He was introduced at the very end of Shadow telling the story of the seeds. But what we find out about him in Claw - he's some sort of cyborg/machine, he knows deep history and tales of "contemporary" Earth, his travels to the stars - and the way he leaves us makes me feel like I haven't seen the last of him. Or, knowing what I know of Wolfe so far, like I *hope* I haven't seen the last of him. But he spent over half the book with Severian and as of yet he's the most present companion. I also wonder how Jolentas death plays into this, as Jonas wants to come back when he is repaired to find her. The Cumaen said that nothing truly dies, so I wonder if we also haven't seen the last of Jolenta.

Speaking of Jolenta, even though I didn't like her that much under the glamour, her fate was incredibly sad. Her reveal as being the waitress from early on in Shadow made me feel like she was just a tool to be used and discarded, so it makes sense that Severian would try to show her mercy and save her.

Another moment that stood out to me was obviously the feast at which Severian consumed the alzabo essence and then Thecla's corpse. The story took an intriguingly dark turn at that point, which I adore. I now finally understand why Severian's perspective is seen as not being wholly consistent, now that he is struggling with his perfect memory clashing with the memories (and, really, presence) of Thecla.

The concept of the Claw has me thinking of endless possibilities. It seems to be a device meant to calm, heal, and guide. Severian is the perfect person to claim this artifact with his conflicting duality of being a Torturer that seeks to provide mercy. But the origins of the device and the origins of the Conciliator himself are so interesting - I want Severian to hurry and read that damn story in the brown book! I really don't want him to hand it over to the Pelerines, but I also don't know the full capabilities of the Claw. It could be a devastating artifact.

I think the parts of the book that still have me confused are exactly why Severian has been meeting exactly the same people he met in Shadow. I refuse to believe it's because Wolfe ran out of ideas for characters and simply needed to reuse them, and I want to believe there is a guiding hand at play here. The reveal that the House of Azure androgyn is the Autarch feeds into my hope.

Also... Someone else from the feast has to be in the same boat as Severian, experiencing Thecla's memories and personality as part of their own. Right?? (please don't answer) I remember Jonas saying he didn't actually swallow either the alzabo or the flesh.

Politically, the lines of who is who are exciting. What I know so far is that Vodalus is attempting to dismantle the Autarchy, yet so is the Autarch. So I'm getting the sense that Father Inire, who I'm very excited to finally meet outside of Thecla's memories, is the one pulling the strings and the Autarch is simply his figurehead working with Vodalus behind the scenes.

My favourite single moment in the book is incredibly hard to choose. The story from the book, the play, and the herdsman's house growing greenery after using the Claw all contend. I would say that the play had a great effect on me as a reader, and I loved the transition to the next chapter - how Nod's character was written to go berserk, and then Baldanders does just that.

Baldanders' character as a whole has a lot of things going on. There was talk about him being Talos' son, and it makes me think of a homunculus, but also makes me think of the seeds. It also makes me think of the extended dream Severian had with the wooden boy and puppet on the stage, and it seems in Baldanders' presence the sea titans seem to be able to track him (which is why I think he might be grown from the seeds). I'm really excited to see where his character goes.

A big "revelation" of sorts that I made while finishing the book, and referenced in my title, are the colours Yellow and Green.

- The story that Severian reads with Jonas in the antechamber tells of an army of fleshed sons who go to fight for their magician fathers. They encounter a group of women living amongst the labyrinthine Islands, all with gowns of green and hair of gold.

- Near the end of the book, Severian recalls a tale from a book he and Thecla read, I believe it was called The Wonders of Urth, where two opposing armies (potentially precursors to the Ascians and the people closer to Nessus?) whose colours were Yellow and Green, and who switch those colours hoping for peace but resulting in more war.

- The 2021 editions of Shadow & Claw and Sword & Citadel are themed Green and Yellow, respectively. I only found this out after finishing Claw and picking up my order for Sword & Citadel.

Anyway, I just did a little skim of the chapters to get a better sense of the journey in Claw as a whole, and now I'm starting Sword!

Edit: I just read the first chapter of Sword and something interesting stuck out. The chapter is bookended with a yellow and green reference; at the start of the chapter Severian is looking down at Thrax at dusk as the lights are turning on and it looks yellow like jonquil. At the end, he's observing the moon (chronologically these events are happening close to each other) and he makes specific note of its emerald green colour.


r/genewolfe 1d ago

Latro is finally here!

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139 Upvotes

I don't know when I'll get the chance to read them (there's so much backlog, and I have to re-read New Sun plus first-read Long Sun and Short Sun), but the premise alone convinced me to buy them blindly.


r/genewolfe 1d ago

New Spanish edition for Soldier of the Mist!

18 Upvotes

I somehow missed this exciting news last month, but there's this new SFF publisher in Spain who, as the third book in their catalogue, announced a new edition of Soldier of the Mist, which has been out of print for decades in Spain (as every Wolfe book).

This new edition will include a new translation and will likely be followed by the other two books in the Latro series. Let's hope for more Wolfe books to reach new readers!

Are you aware of any other recent Wolfe editions around the world?


r/genewolfe 1h ago

Not gonna lie, that kinda blew my mind when I found out Triskele was dead and Sev just brought him back to life.

Upvotes

Severian dies at least twice in the book of the new Sun and is brought back. First drowning, and then off the cliff. He is the Concilliator, and we find out the claw was essentially a useless trinket, only made important as an artifact of the pellerines because he once possessed it.

He is the conduit that brings the new Sun to the dying earth. He is the New Son. He can reanimate dead matter; he brought back from the dead Triskele, Dorcas, and Jonus, and possibly more. That scene with the necromancer in Urth of the new Sun was awesome. I can't remember if the necromancer was merely a fake and if it was just Sev that brought to life that shrunken head on the end of his staff.

And I wonder if there's other versions of Sev watching over him and thwarting Hethors attempts on his life.

Definitely not breaking any new ground here on this book that was published decades ago, but I just love how subtle Wolfe can be with his story telling, dropping a clue here and there. The little atrium of time where Sev almost catches another version of himself. Like a lil homebase for his time traveler self. It just blows my mind whenever I catch something I blatantly missed on a first reading. Silk being Master Malrubius just had my jaw on the floor.


r/genewolfe 1d ago

Just finished Shadow and Claw, is there a reason Severian keeps meeting the same people? Spoiler

19 Upvotes

I'm confused as to why there's always someone he has met in his childhood or before in his adventure everywhere he goes. Rudesind is one but I know 4th dimension shenanigans are happening there, but then there's Hildegrand, the witches, fake Thecla, the guy from the brothel, etc?


r/genewolfe 2d ago

On Blue's Waters and The Kalevala Spoiler

13 Upvotes

The name Yksin is mentioned in On Blue's Waters and it's said to mean 'alone', which it does in Finnish (I'm Finnish so it was easy enough to pick up.) Now, I must admit, that I have not read The Kalevala but do know that it deals with themes of water goddesses, women from the water, and boats, all obviously similar themes to On Blue's Waters.

Considering how much Wolfe seemingly read mythologies and folklore of different cultures it wouldn't seem crazy to think he read the Kalevala as well. Tolkien also somewhat famously really liked it and the Finnish language in general.

It also seems a bit odd to me that Wolfe explicitly says what the name means but there's not really anything else about the character. (as far as I remember)

I was just wondering whether anyone has any thoughts or knowledge about this.


r/genewolfe 2d ago

Tank Full of Scummy Green Water: Essay on "Home Fires" Spoiler

6 Upvotes

That possibility was very much on my mind when I was creating the Urth of The Book of the New Sun. I was trying to come to grips with the end-result of the do-nothing attitude so many people-on-the-street have about the future. These people seem to feel that space exploration is a lot of bullshit (‘there’s nothing really out there we can use’), that undersea exploration is a lot of bullshit (‘there’s nothing down there for us’), that we should just go about our business the way we are and be ‘sensible’. But what is going to happen if we keep on being ‘sensible’ in the way they’re suggesting? If we keep clinging to our old home (the planet Earth) and sit around waiting for the money and resources to run out? The Urth I invented in The Book of the New Sun is the world which has followed that course, a world in which people have been so limited in their vision of the future that they saw no other option except what was immediately in front of them. They’ve been practical and down-to-earth, they’ve gone on planting their cabbages. Well, there’s nothing wrong with planting those cabbages, God knows; but when you ignore any possibilities except those cabbages, you wind up living in a world something like Urth, with its exhausted mines and exhausted farmlands. You get a land which may have had a long period of relative peace and stability, but it’s a period of slow decay. I keep tropical fish, and I remember there used to be a fad among fish owners about trying to keep a perfectly balanced environment in the tanks – they’d seal everything up to see how long it was until the fish died out. Sometimes it would take eighteen months or more, but eventually the last fish always died and you were left there staring at a tank full of scummy green water. That’s what the Urth of the Commonwealth has become (and what we’re headed for unless we look to the future more adventurously) – a tank full of scummy water. (Gene Wolfe. McCaffrey interview.)

Knowing Typhon as I do, he probably had at least half a dozen purposes; but certainly one of the chief must have been self-aggrandizement – to return human kind to the stars would be a very great thing indeed. Yes, the Blue-Green system was the intended destination. (Gene Wolfe. Whorl e-mail discussion list questions.)

In Home Fires, Skip and Chelle make a deal with one another. Chelle will venture out into space to fight alien invaders and Skip will stay home, hoping to keep the home fires burning for her return (Skip seems to have proposed the deal: Chelle agrees, "[S]ure, darling, you wait for me.") Skip is left in their decrepit apartment -- Chelle twice describes it as a "stinking studio" -- a version of a tank full of scummy water, and thereby, while his wife performs as what to Wolfe real men do -- seek the stars -- Skip performs as the inevitable fate awaiting all those who do the sensible -- wallow in self-decay. Chelle knows glory, the glory Wolfe talks about when men do not content themselves with collecting cabbages -- "And damn it, up there it was glamorous! We were us. That was the big thing." -- while Skip performs a version of nineteenth-century traditional wives, like Little Woman's Marmee, who make sure that when their husbands finally come from war, or from battling in the cold, cruel marketplace, they have a welcoming hearth and an angel in the house to serve as antidote. Skip becomes the mother many Wolfe main protagonists turn to at the end of his fictions, to say, '"Sleep," she whispered. "Rest you, O my lover. Sleep, O my brother, and be well"' (Castleview).

There are two emplotments at work here, neither favourable to a real man's self image. Either he lacks boldness and is thereby rendered, like Urth's inhabitants, effeminate, or he has boldness -- he, like perhaps the Odyssey's Penelope -- will keep the home fires going, but is thereby rendered literally into a woman by conservative assessments of gender role. Further eroding his real male status is his sense that he is fortunate to even serve that role: his likely understanding that in identifying himself as serving a well-known role that seems to argue a secure relationship can be maintained even as lovers keep at a geographic remove from one another -- I will be a Penelope to your Odysseus -- he was hiding from himself the fact that his relationship is very tenuous, already, before departure: he informs us that since his wife had just before divorced herself from her parents, he had expected her to do so with him as well. Lucky him! While she hated her mother for what she did to her, and hated the life Skip was presenting her with, she hadn't worked herself, yet, to getting rid of him en total.

So is Wolfe finally presenting us with a main protagonist who doesn't venture out to stars like Severian, who doesn't venture across seas like Pirate Freedom's Chris, who doesn't venture into heavens and hell like WizardKnight's Able, but who chooses to be... in effect, a homebody, as hero, an apparent counter-argument to Wolfe's argument that choosing not to head out into space means spiritual and material depletion and withering/souring? The truth is that while teasing us with the possibility, he doesn't give us much chance to consider it, because, as we are told, unlike for example Green in There are Doors... whom it should be noted is fundamentally one of his world-explorers because the bulk of his text is his not at home, who after being abandoned by his true love continues working as a retail clerk and is sent for psychiatric help, as soon as his wife leaves Skip becomes a massive success. A famous celebrity law firm hires him, and so while Chelle performs a bit like Typhon, transplanting herself gloriously to the stars, Ern performs a bit like Severian, by bringing a powerful "star" back into his home (“He came back to our stinking studio and he’s signed on with Chet Burton. God knows I didn’t know much, but I knew who Chet Burton was, the guy the celebrities went to when it was win or die and blood on the knife in their car.”)

Skip becomes a massive financial success; he becomes a famous criminal lawyer. He is a powerful victor in the market place, and so in all ways, ostensibly, masculinized: refusing to narrate himself for any more than just a single moment as Marmee, he insists he be taken as Johnnie Cochrane. Their roles are different, but Skip quickly switches away from the truth that he had accepted the traditional woman's role to making it seem that their lives played out as if both partners, as if both husband and wife, had simply sought different destinations, different paths, to engage daily with the worst sorts of people. Aliens coming at you with guns vs. ongoing near proximity with those who stabbed others with knives or bludgeoned them with pipes... one risked themselves dying (Skip actually says the courtroom could be deadly for judges and therefore, one presumes, perhaps also for lawyers like him, which is the reason most judges go to court, armed), but the other couldn't be accused of hiding under a desk.

Further, he separates himself categorically from his new girlfriend, his secretary Susan, who, unlike people like him, are rejects who'll always be "second-best"... people who deserve rejection, for that being apparently their categorical imperative, and have no capacity to lead. He separates himself from servants like the beggar Achille, whom he must stop from trying to cling to him. No longer himself second-best, no longer himself clinging to a relationship his wife likely wants no part of: these aspects of himself that would make him worth rejecting, are placed onto others. He pretends that his experience in his work fashioned to secure the Home Fires, his career as lawyer, more shores up rather than questions traditional gender roles, for his experience with juries ostensibly showing that men are cold and reasoned -- adequate for jury duty and for the brutality of the working world/mean streets -- while women are easy to manipulate owing to being overly sensitive to emotional appeals and needs -- inadequate for jury duty; antithesis of working world; logical for the nurturing home. Chelle may f*ck men, she may rape Skip... but, like Athena, born not of woman but entirely of man, Skip tries to fashion her as exception.

Nevertheless, the text shows that Skip is still much in need of securing masculinity for having at the beginning taken solace in a feminine role. He obviously needs his wife to witness his ability to perform in battle... in actual battle, not just the battle of criminal court, to obtain it, which is itself emasculating because it puts your wife as the Achilles who'll notice that you too know how to handle a sword. And in the end, as if realizing that his assessment that while perhaps originally agreeing to be the wife he thereafter performed admirably as male, is a ruse, that he remains in essence, female, he himself enlists... and, as if this will work to efface completely from memory his original choice, it'll be as if he was already from the beginning someone who'd enlisted: he joins as colonel, that is, in a position normally acquired only after years of service. He'll have never known years of being shot at and having shot, as Wolfe describes himself as young soldier in Korea, but people will assume he had.

And it was a ruse: much of how he describes himself and how others are required to be, serve as superior ways of shoring up a false self than what Winnoc tried for himself in New Sun. Winnoc acknowledged he voluntarily surrendered his freedom, feminized himself, but never documents himself as Skip does so that even within this space he serves almost like an outside-the-barnyard hawk documenting the land, but rather just as a well-fed but non-epic rooster, who knows he'd be traded away to the mines if he ever for a moment dared declare himself akin to the protagonist in Melito's story. Is such a person, a man? Could such a person be deemed to have made a good choice? If we are keen to notice, Skip's effort to weave cover for himself makes him less a man than Winnoc, who opens himself up for examination for allowing himself to be so open. (If the key test in Wolfe's works is who passes as a true man, Winnoc, far more than Skip, passes. He's all bare, no obfuscations).

The considerable effort to acknowledge the possibility that one could take on a role that Wolfe would normally designate as inappropriate for a man and redeem it, in part, as an inversion -- as a domestic rooster that might perhaps if staged correctly convince as more outside-the-barn hawk or owl -- can in part be explained by Wolfe's document on his experience as a soldier in Korea, Letters Home. If the stay-at-home man can be rehabilitated as not-necessarily emasculated, then one might as author pretend to inhabit that role without it worryingly permanently affecting you. If performing, as author, that role, infects you, like possessing another person in Long Sun affects you, as you take back into you part of whom you were inhabiting, then if Marmee is Pappyified the risk is less. And the reason one might want to inhabit her rather than the man who seeks or is sent off to war, is because she... if you remain attached to her before leaving, will inevitably leave you, almost immediately leave you, and you, a soldier, will find yourself weeping to yourself, a pathetic discarded loser. Wolfe's account of Korea is that there is no such thing as a Penelope awaiting her Odysseus. Wolfe argues that if he himself were ever married before shipping off, he'd divorce her beforehand and spare himself the pain and humiliation. He'd make himself immune by doing this, but the other way to avoid the pain is tried out here: not divorce the wife, but de facto become her, and rehabilitate the possibility of her.

To Wolfe, Penelopes don't exist in women, but Home Fires shows that they might in this male-female hybrid called "Skip." Skip is not loyal to Chelle as Wolfe argues wives ought to have been to their husbands... but he is not as these wives, either. They forget all about their husbands, permanently, as they change up man for man, partner for partner, as readily and naturally as Mani does "owners" in WizardKnight. Skip, on the other hand, does find a new partner, the secretary Susan, and they do become so intertwined with one-another others forge their names as SkipandSusan, but he drops her immediately as soon as his actual wife arrives back. Not just temporarily, but permanently. Yes, Skip is obviously enthused with the possibility of bedding a young woman, something he feels is enabled him because, despite being middle-aged and balding, Chelle remains his wife, so will grit her way through, if it occurs, disgust. But yes, also, that he is fundamentally committed to her, and never really to Susan. You want something done right, do it yourself. You want women to be a certain way, become that woman yourself. Want Penelopes to actually exist? The Odysseus's... the would-be Odysseus's, need to surrender one of their own to role-reversal, so women can be taught how it actually should be done. Loyalty, being an aspect, to Wolfe, of male not female, means some man wearing the woman's skirt for awhile, so it gets instigated into them. Diddo, passionate attachment as well: "Considering the unpassionate nature of most women" (Letters Home). Skip is doing one for the team, so to speak, and hence, even while tending the Home Fires, is part of the Brotherhood of Men. Wolfe involving himself with, in forging, a Skip, recalls his experience in Korea, recalls the consistent accounts of betrayal, and reforges an alternative where none of that emotional messiness and devastation might have occurred. He's already himself known what it is to be a soldier, known what it was to seek glory far afield. The part he needs to work on is the woman who leaves the boy adrift. The part he needs to work on is what went on at home, where women didn't fulfill their side of the bargain. Home Fires accomplishes this.

In Letters Home, women leave men for trivial reasons. Wolfe argues "they seem willing to wreck a lot of trust just to have someone take them dancing." But Home Fires builds into the narrative cover if there proves to be more to it than that. Chelle didn't herself leave Skip for trivial reasons. She left him because, poverty, yes, but also because their life involved his coming home and her screaming at him all the time. She left because they weren't going to last, one minute. She argues that already from her experience of him, behind his genuine conscious gifts there lurked some subterranean Death, some subterranean intention... it seems, to murder, accumulating, brooding. His current love was already shadowing as future hate-crime. The horror of what their life would have been seems played out in reality by Skip's descriptions of the domestic life of those he defends. In marriages like perhaps where they themselves were headed, husbands, locked alone with wives who've turned into angry hags, murder their wives; children born to them, are tortured and hacked to pieces. War gets transferred from where it ought to be, afield, to within the domestic. Would-be Home Fires impossible for houses on fire. Skip's diaries of whom he defended in court, are like Silk's premonitions drawn from his readings of holy text: they foretell disaster, for him, for Chelle, unless she makes a drastic choice. It is possible that by acknowledging that the problem isn't women, their ostensible innate lack of passion and lack of loyalty, but marriage itself, accounted for like a naturalist like Gissing or Zola or Dreisser or Ibsen would account it, then a sexist resolution to the reasons for sexual discord -- women are not to be trusted -- hesitates into more mutual, more mature territory -- marriage must cease to be romanticized and given full account for what it is supposed to represent, something beautiful, to actually have any possibility to in reality exist. Otherwise, chaos reigns.

Things are not as they seem, argues Home Fires. The "wife" may be a man; the "home," a location for debris, exhaustion, murder; the warrior, a seeking of suicide. Oh yes! the warrior is negotiated so we see them not only as seekers-of-glory but those-who-seek-Death; Chelle admits that soldiers... and perhaps herself, indeed very likely herself, were either unconsciously or unconsciously seeking more than anything, death. This itself is a romantic formulation -- seek Death itself sounds glorious, or could be made to sound glorious -- but since the text has a group of nobodies who've formed a suicide cult, "suicide," cowardly seeking of suicide (others do it for you, either fellow members of the cult or warriors on the other side), seeps its way into these soldiers' motives. Wolfe worries that in pursuing sensible cabbage-lives people erroneously starve themselves into habitats of pond-scum, but Home Fires shows he knew that sometimes people can perform as their alternative, those who seek stars! do the insensible! but for intentionally pursuing what those who remained behind only inadvertently are lent to, are not the alternative to cowards but cowards intensified.

If the man staying home is a Marmee, but a Marmee performing as men hope they would -- loyalty, devotion, passion -- and the wife performs as soldier, but not as we would hope soldiers do -- not protection, but de facto, suicide pact -- then the ownership of glory shifts back onto one side, the side inverse of normal expectations, where, if anything, the "wife" can be expected to perform, while the "male" finds another preferred mate, in their dalliance with death.


r/genewolfe 3d ago

3rd Volume of The Book of The New Sun Collection

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64 Upvotes

r/genewolfe 4d ago

Wolfe the Craftsman

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183 Upvotes

We discuss Wolfe’s craftsmanship a great deal in this sub (as we should). I very much appreciate his articulation of his own intent here. This is from a letter to his friend and sometime publisher Dan Knight (shared with permission).


r/genewolfe 3d ago

Can someone digest BotNS by reading it only once?

9 Upvotes

Having read lots of discussions about Wolfe's series online, it seems to check all the boxes of what makes a story that ends up being my favorite. I'm not against being challenged as a reader and I am willing to put in the effort to actively understand the dense narrative of these books.

That being said, I notice the discourse in the community agrees that subsequent reads of Book of the New Sun are necessary for a thorough comprehension of the story. However, I'm not really a person to reread/rewatch stuff I enjoy, mostly because I have so many stories in my TBR I'm always eager to get to. But also because it takes me lots of time to read books and college eats a lot of my free time.

I guess my curiousity lies in whether do y'all think Book of the New Sun can be appreciated and digested with only one read (assuming I check with auxiliary sources for a better understanding) or do you think a reread is absolutely imperative if you want to "get it"?

Edit: Thank you everybody for the amazing replies. I'm down for starting this series soon enough, for which I have great anticipation. I'm confident I could fit in designated time for rereads if these books end up affecting me.


r/genewolfe 4d ago

The Dorcas Break-up Episode 1 - tBotNS - 3:10,11,12 - The Sword of the Lictor - The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe

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21 Upvotes

r/genewolfe 4d ago

Are the names in the book translated as well?

8 Upvotes

I am currently reading the Sword of the Lictor (1st time) and got to the part where Severian descends from the mountain to the village next to the lake.

In his tiredness, he reads ”agia she leaped” instead of ”again she leaped” from the brown book. If I’m not too dumb this wouldn’t make sense if the book is translated from another language. Does this mean that Agias real name is the other languages equivalent to something that sounds similar to ”again”? If this is the case then is Severians name also translated from the other language? I thought it was just a fun pun for the reader but if Agia is translated then Severian would be their word for Sever + their version of the suffix. I wonder what it would sound like.


r/genewolfe 4d ago

Did I just read too many spoilers? Spoiler

7 Upvotes

Currently starting Claw. I'm absolutely loving this series, it's nothing like I've ever read before, it's fascinating. Its puzzle aspect makes it addicting, and in said addiction, I have found myself searching in this subreddit (which maybe I should stop doing?) and finding that:

  • There are "several Severians" in the story (not sure who, or when, or why)
  • Dr. Talos is a robot (I kinda figured this one out though)
  • Jonas is a robot
  • Baldanders is "the brains of the operation" and not Dr. Talos (whatever that means)

And well, that's that. I've read that some people describe the series as "unspoilable" and something you truly only comprehend until you read it twice or thrice (which I can't wait to do) but still, have I ruined too much for myself?


r/genewolfe 5d ago

Long Sun personae lists, centralized and expandable

20 Upvotes

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VqgxlrfgSHtLVwtkWNj1K79IZnITzz8uR4IzHQirkAQ/edit?usp=sharing

I put Long Sun's three lists of "Gods, Persons, and Animals Mentioned in the Text" into columns, together with brief notes about the animals, plants, and terms less familiar to me. I made this with the intention of expanding and amending my own copy with each subsequent reread. I post it here in case someone may find it useful as a starting point for reading notes.


r/genewolfe 5d ago

Who is Jonas

23 Upvotes

Who is Jonas?

In some sense, Jonas is akin to Talos for Baldanders, a perfectly loyal companion and thus a distinction from women, whom Severian has experienced or knows as betrayers-of-trust:

Birds twittered overhead, and it was very pleasant to have such a friend as Jonas, loyal, reasonable, tactful, and filled with wisdom, humor, and prudence.

He also is an elder, and hence to some extent a guide:

He had a slightly cynical detachment from mankind that suggested he had seen a great deal of the world.

He is a foil to Severian in offering, potentially, wisdom to Severian’s ignorance, but he is that too in pro-offering a body for childhood and feminine vulnerability as well. Though Jonas does almost as good as Severian when they dispose of the men taking them to Vodalus (he is however described unintentionally ignominiously as “still being sprawled on the floor”; important because Severian is erect and all in his grandeur as they encounter Voldalus’s court: witnesses see a magnificent Severian but a sprawled Jonas), thereafter Jonas is Severian’s antithesis in being repeatedly vulnerable to Severian’s being stoically resolute, a Jonas-glass canon to Severian’s severe wall of power. We get for instance Jonas’s becoming excited and hopeful at sight of Jolenta, but then being beaten and taken down by a soldier:

“When Jolenta was nearly opposite us, she turned her head. To me, at that moment, it seemed she must have winded his desire, as among the mountains certain unclean spirits are said to be attracted by the odor of meat that has been cast upon a fire for them. No doubt it was really only the flowering trees among which we stood that caught her attention. I heard the inhalation of Jonas’s breath; but the first syllable of her name was cut short by the thud of the blow that followed, and he pitched at my feet.”

Severian, on the other hand, can’t be brought down, neither by Vodalus’s men, nor really, unless by Severian’s choice, by soldiers of the House Absolute. What is dead serious for poor Jonas is but a game to Severian:

1)I had no sooner stood, however, than the scarred man rose too, and holding his dirk’s point within a thumb of my throat told me to sit again. To spite him I shook my head.“And lose the glory of bringing me back? I don’t think so. Wait until the others tell Vodalus that you had me, and you stabbed me when my hands were tied.”

2) “My captor now lifted the wire noose until I stood. I was conscious, as I have been on several similar occasions, that we were in some sense playing a game. We were pretending that I was totally in his power, when in fact I might have refused to rise until he had either strangled me or called over some of his comrades to carry me. I could have done several other things as well—seized the wire and tried to wrest it from him, struck him in the face. I might have escaped, been killed, been rendered unconscious, or plunged into agony; but I could not actually be forced to do as I did.”

Once they are in the dungeons of the House Absolute, Severian is described as a “child,” as a “woman,” as a “boy.” Reminding him of Thecla in her excited state, Severian tells him a story to help calm him down. Jonas even does what all (?) women do in Wolfe’s works, abandon the main, leaving him at the end as the true seat of male loyalty:

Now I am worse than you. You would not have left me, but I am leaving you.

Jonas will come back for Jolenta when he is sane and healed, but he fails in this, and thus is akin to Hethor in being “doubly deserted” (as with Jonas when he is presented to the liege of leaves, i.e., Vodalus, Hethor is first seen by everyone in the antechamber, sprawled on the floor: “He fell sprawling.”) Jonas can be exemplary as a leader -- one remember his immediate and impressive, autarch-like response to seeing Severian switching into Thecla:

“You are not the Chatelaine Thecla,” he said. “You are Severian, a journeyman of the torturers, who was unfortunate enough to love her. See yourself!” He held up the steel hand so that I could see a stranger’s face, narrow, ugly, and bewildered, reflected in its work-polished palm.

And one remembers his speaking impressively to the Praetorians, promoting their case:

Jonas said, “We’ve done no harm. Return my friend’s sword and give us back our animals, and we will go.”

But Jonas is still at least in part representative of many side characters in Wolfe in that they carry experiences (a woman’s rejection, vulnerability, powerful, powerful neediness: “But I must.” His thin, hard hand—his left hand of flesh—gripped mine. “If I don’t, I will kill myself or lose my reason. I’ve been your friend, haven’t I?”) the main character would prefer be deferred onto others.

Severian is in control of his emotions as he finishes his journey with Jonas, pretending to be equally sensitive as him but in reality they’re being a different kettle of fish. Severian is concerned that he is at the end of his journeys, that he will never accomplish any of his goals:

“Possibly most important, my thoughts were oppressed by worry for Jonas, and by the feeling (which had been growing on me all day) that this place was the end of my journey; that I would never reach Thrax; that I would never rejoin poor Dorcas; that I would never restore the Claw, or even rid myself of it; that in fact the Increate, whom the owner of the Claw had served, had decreed that I who had seen so many prisoners die should end my own life as one.”

But, like Thecla, Jonas would claw and kill to escape his confines. Thecla appears in Severian while in the antechambers, but the Thecla-madness, the madness she experienced while a captive, is felt by the reader mostly in Jonas.


r/genewolfe 4d ago

Just finished Shadow of the Torturer and I need some info before I continue the series.

0 Upvotes

Is Severian supposed to be a loser? Like it's really important to me that Gene Wolfe wrote him as a loser on purpose and that he isn't supposed to seem cool at all.

Is stuff like "creamy amplitude" more of a r/Menwritingwomen situation or r/SeverianWritingWomen?

Is it Gene Wolf writing that is cringe or Gene Wolfe writing from Severian's perspective that is cringe on purpose for the sake of showing the reader Severian's character?


r/genewolfe 6d ago

Just finished The book of the new sun and the urth of the new sun!

49 Upvotes

It was an amazing trip, to say the least.

I don't want to write a long review of the series just yet, since I haven't reread it (I'm going to start right away). But even after a first read, I honestly can't think of a weak part. Every book felt tightly written and consistently exciting. But the shadow was still my favorit haha.

I loved all the recurring motifs: the master/slave (or creator/creation), the spiral imagery, and iconography... They made the whole journey incredibly rewarding.

And... I really want to know what happened to Jonas!!


r/genewolfe 6d ago

Peace and a reference to Escher?

14 Upvotes

In Chapter 4 (page 256 of the current Orb paperback) there is this passage:

That Heaven is (by the report of the summoned angels) a land of hills and terraced gardens, with cold, blue freshwater seas; that it is shaped like an angel—or, rather, like many, for (like Hell) it repeats itself over and over again, always different and yet always the same, for each angel Heaven is Perfect, as each is Unique; and that the various angel Heavens touch one another at the feet and wingtips, and so permit the angels to pass from one to another.

This feels like a straight description of one of the various Escher drawings showing tesselated Angels and demons, such as at the link below.

https://escherinhetpaleis.nl/en/about-escher/escher-today/circle-limit-iv-heaven-and-hell


r/genewolfe 7d ago

Ready for a Journey feat. bookmark my gf made

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199 Upvotes

Also, does anyone got any recommendations for music to listen to during reading? Already found some ambience music but maybe you guys got some bangers.


r/genewolfe 6d ago

Reporting from the Red Sun Whorl (Boston)

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47 Upvotes

r/genewolfe 7d ago

How good are the Latro books?

43 Upvotes

Outside of solar cycle and The wizard knight, this is probably the most popular series by Gene Wolfe but outside of goodreads I have not seen much written or discussed about this series and surprisingly almost nothing on YouTube or Twitter. Where do you rank this work and would I need atleast a rudimentary knowledge of ancient Greece to enjoy this book?


r/genewolfe 7d ago

Confused about potential misprint in my copy of Exodus from the Long Sun

8 Upvotes

I would like some help with a passage in Exodus that has been confusing me since I read it. I also have a kindle version so perhaps that is it.

In my copy on page 367 in the "The Best Thieves in the Whorl" chapter, I believe they misprinted Maytera Marbles name as Mint, but would like clarification. The passage is

"Maytera Mint’s grip on his arm tightened, and she uttered a sound like a

raindrop falling into a scrub bucket, then another, and another. He turned

from his contemplation of the airship to her. “Why are you making that

noise, Maytera?"

It doesn't help that the second half of exodus jumps around quite a bit and the reader is left to fill in the blanks. This is after they are captured and before they go up in the airship. I believe this is a misprint primarily because

  1. Mint was explicitly said to have escaped from the meeting with the councillors with Bison and Silk even wonders where she is after this passage.

  2. The "noises" she is making reads like a chem that is unable to cry physically.

Am I correct or am I missing something? Is this some kind of meta thing where Horn and Nettle make a mistake?


r/genewolfe 7d ago

also born in Nessus?

18 Upvotes

Hmm, when a history audiobook stops you in your tracks: Nessus?

1)

"Constantine I the Great was born around 272 in Naissus, part of the province of Dardania in Mesa, a Roman province in the central Balkans (now Niš, a city in Serbia"

2) You can fly to Constantine the Great Airport if you're keen:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Niš+Constantine+the+Great+Airport/@43.3375854,21.8637549,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4755b70bf7df040d:0xeb4389f68465eb47!8m2!3d43.3375815!4d21.8663352!16zL20vMGJ3dHEw?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDcxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

3) "Constantine I, also known as Constantine the Great, was a Roman emperor who reigned from 306 to 337 AD.

He was the author of numerous social, economic, and political reforms in the empire, which flourished during his reign. Constantine I was the first emperor to embrace Christianity, ending the persecution of Christians by his predecessor, Diocletian.

He issued the Edict of Milan, which proclaimed freedom of worship. He is a saint of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

https://factinformer.com/fact/5317/