r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • 15h ago
Rewatch Simoun 20th Anniversary Rewatch Episode 17
"Tempus controlled the flow of time. Spatium placed people where they belonged. The two became a pair, and gave the people unending blessings, and terror."
<- Episode 16 | Index Thread | Episode 18 ->
Today's Eyecatch: Grandpa and Aer | Vyura
People, Places, Things
- Chors Caput and Rubol: sent to the Spring.
Discussion Prompts
- Q1: How has Neviril changed since yesterday?
- Q2: Who are the other simoun, and why do they look like that?
- Q3: How can the Spring exist in both the ruins and the capital?
- Q4: How can that be Angulus?
Tomorrow's Questions, Today!
- [ep 18 Q1:] Why were Yun and Aer taken off the roster?
- [ep 18 Q2:] Pariaetta's character arc has been a long one. What do you make of her lifelong fixation on Neviril?
- [ep 18 Q3:] Did you notice the shift in the power structure of Simulacrum?
Trivia: The OP, "Utsukushi kereba sore de ii" was composed, written, and sung by Chiaki Ishikawa. She is probably best known for the opening song for Bokurano, "Uninstall." Ishikawa paired with Yuki Kajiura as See-Saw, and often contributed to Kajiura's soundtracks during this era: notably, the .hack entries SIGN, Liminality, and Legend of the Twilight. She also sang OP and ED songs for Gundam 00, Gundam SEED, Forest of the Mermaids TV, Kaze no Stigmata, Nagi no Asukara, and many more.
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u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander 14h ago
First Timer
Do I even want to know what Mikasa was doing in that preview?
The show presents mysteries today, but I’m not sure if I care enough anymore to be compelled by them. There is a lot of mention of the Spring today, not to mention the return to the Arcus Prima. It just can’t help but make me think: remember when this show had themes of identity? Of society and personal motivation, and gender? So many interesting things you can do with the Spring and setup of this world but it’s just kind of turned into a military show that loves vagueposting about magic stuff. Starring the worst protagonist ever, Mikasa, and Neviril. Who seems to finally resolve her trauma and find the motivation to move forward in every fucking episode of this show without ever actually doing anything or going anywhere.
Also, what do you mean “Mamina’s changed a lot”? Am I meant to understand from this interaction she has completed her personal arc? What arc? The only thing that changed is that she flipped a switch in her second episode that changed her from an ambitious viper desperate enough to kill into a friendly and upfront housemaid. I guess that was Mamina, what a waste of a character. Honestly I’m kind of wondering at this point if we’re ever going back to the Kaim and Alty storyline which we haven’t heard of in like five episodes. Maybe that was a “completed arc” too??
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 14h ago
Hey, don't act like the military theme is better now, it's gotten also much worse ("TeHyrE sO HiGh!" 200 metres)! I can't really see any dedication to the bit anymore, just a few hints being thrown around to tie it together a bit.
Well, now I at least fully understand now why calling her Mikasa is appropriate.
As for the rest, damn does that read like my post summing up my bad mood these past days.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11h ago
The show is actually somewhat competent at demonstrating what an awful mess a country at war with a disastrous political-military structure and rampant incompetence in the cabinet and the field would be, but I don't know how much that was the intention
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11h ago
Fwiw New Mamina is my favorite character at this point just for being consistently and clearly characterized plus decent fun and competency. The bar is low
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 14h ago
It just can’t help but make me think: remember when this show had themes of identity? Of society and personal motivation, and gender? So many interesting things you can do with the Spring and setup of this world but it’s just kind of turned into a military show that loves vagueposting about magic stuff.
It certainly does feel like the series shifted in focus partway through. I don't think the shift is out of place, personally. The increasing militarization of the Sibyllae and the war were both established back at the beginning of the series, so it makes sense to continue down that storyline as the characters accept they are in a war story.
That being said, the series has definitely shifted focus away from the themes of gender and identity, which was part of what drew me into the series in the first place. The lesser focus on that as of late has been a shame.
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u/deus_machinarum 7h ago
That being said, the series has definitely shifted focus away from the themes of gender and identity, which was part of what drew me into the series in the first place. The lesser focus on that as of late has been a shame.
I'm gonna be optimistic and use meta knowledge of this rewatch being a pride month one to claim the series will get back to these issues and will treat them with the respect and care we expect. So far the focus being on the conflict seems ok for where we are at in-universe. Here's to hoping!
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u/deus_machinarum 14h ago
First timer
This episode seems like it's going to focus on Neviril quite a bit, hopefully we get lots of introspection for her, there's so much I'm curious about.
Ah nice, Waporif and Morinas seem to be back on excellent terms, hopefully we get to see them be together and happy. Please!
Different characters reacting very differently to the disappearance of Dominura and Limone, seeing Rodoreamon hits especially hard. Seems like she genuinely cared for Limone. Also fascinating that our crew has apparently moved up in the world(getting back to the luxurious life on the Arcus Prima) but they all seem to be pretty down about it. They get more room to themselves but seem a lot more distanced from the others. Cool contrast to the move to the Messis.
Things are quite serious on the Arcus Prima from the outset, Chor Tempest is the only one remaining. Neviril's father at least confirms that Dominura and Limone are 'missing', that's the best I can hope for at this point.
Aaaaand were going to the holiest of holy places in Simulacrum, very nice maybe we'll finally get some more reveals about the (old) faith. Also fitting after Dominura destroyed what was left of the religious status quo. Don't think it would make sense in terms of story telling to dilly dally after last episode. And we're in a race against the alliance, things are heating up!
Why do they keep reiterating that it is mandatory and not a request? And why would Floe(or any Sibylla really) not want to go there? Are there still some left that would care for it being a forbidden place? It does play up the danger for the audience; works on me at least.
'No choice but to keep going' very much in line with last episode's theme. This must hit hard for Neviril and Aaeru especially.
The two main heroines, back in the air-shaft where so much started. Can they now finally really sync up? Become a pair? Does Neviril even desire this? Can't really tell where she's standing on that issue right now.
Oh yeah, Mamiina gets it on good authority that she has changed a lot too, we are clearly at the end of an(the second?) arc right here before reaching the ruins and probably the finale.
This 'forced' kissing between Aaeru and Neviril is so weird to me. Like, girl, you can't make it happen, it's there or not and either way you will know the truth about the other's feelings very soon. The Sybillae before going to the spring really seem to be more child-like(are kept this way) than it would seem at first with all the kissing and groping. Emotionally they are way younger than teens IMO.
Oh the eyecatches...it's like they are telling us an older, more experienced Paraietta will prey on the younger, naive Aaeru(also the music). Hopefully Aaeru emerges victorious from this.
Ok, Neviril has decided. Sucks to be you, Paraietta. And I'm not mad about it.
Hmmmm, the ruins are literal ruins, not sure I expected that. All our girls seem surprised by what they see too. This is also(like the spring) holy ground for Tempus Spatium. Seems to me like our god lost an important battle here. Against or for whom I can't speculate on yet.
Oh yeah, bad Simouns! Finally an enemy that is on the same level technologically. How will our girls fare? Maybe the other countries found a few fossils of their own? Do they now thusly also revere Tempus Spatium?
Ri Majoon vs. Ri Majoon, pretty cool. Now I don't think you need to watch this series for the action scenes but it's cool to see a more difficult fight.
Those two are so cute together when they are close emotionally too. I could see this pairing working out in a variety of genres(buddy cops and mahou shoujo for example). Also blonde and pink is not the most common combination I think, it stands out in a nice way.
What? So we are actually at THE spring and that's why Neviril recognized the interior of the place? Not sure how that makes sense with the ruins being a forbidden place? Oooooh so it's more than one Onashia operating on behalf of our beloved Tempus Spatium.
vindication: Tempus guards the flow of time and Spatium is about placing people where they belong(according to what though? themselves or a godly masterplan?), obvious name is obvious but still: called it! :)
oh yeah, at least in the subs they use past tense, so it seems god is dead for real. Blessings and terror, huh? all part of reality for humans since the beginning of time.
For a reveal episode we did not get too many answers but still, I'm sure there is a lot more to come!
QOTD 3:
I think it's like Onashia said: this specific place is released from the 'spell', there is no passage of time and no 'one being can only be in one place at a time'(not sure if there is a word for that...) here, what seems contradictory to beings like our heroines(and us viewers) just ..... isn't that. Maybe the unity of those two gods caused time to pass and beings to be in a place and thus created mortal humans in this world, which could certainly be viewed as a blessing AND a curse. Having to die and knowing you will have to die is not an easy burden to bear. Still wondering what is up with Animus...
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u/Malipit 8h ago
Oh the eyecatches...it's like they are telling us an older, more experienced Paraietta will prey on the younger, naive Aaeru(also the music). Hopefully Aaeru emerges victorious from this.
That's not Paraietta in the second eyecatch but the Chor Rubor Sibylla who was Springed off-screen
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u/deus_machinarum 7h ago
Ooooh, thx for clearing that up!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 5h ago
It took me a while to figure out who she was when I was capturing all the eyecatches.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 14h ago
Simoun First Timer
(1/2)
I breathe in.
I breathe out.
The narrative is that Paraietta is too obsessively attached and can’t navigate the reality of war, that Dominura and Limone prayed for a wonder that saved everyone and led them back to faith after her fall, and that wonders, miracles and hope are a thing available beyond mere observable and quantifiable metrics that rely on the dedication of your soul.
Uhm, I got so absorbed in writing this post that I have no time left for drawing.
Simoun Ep.17 – The Ruins
We’re not done? That is far too casual for what happened.
They certainly changed their disposition. Remember when they would just shrug after they went off on their own adventures?
We got off to a rough start for that pep talk to herself, but I’m glad she’s taking back control.
Don’t think so. Well, at least they didn’t look like it did. I was also confused for a bit because I thought the black void would be a telltale sign of it failing, but apparently that’s correct.
Yun not reading! She can also knit!
Floe so unphased by the death of her friends she hums while showering. In Rimworld I think she’d have the ‚Vengeful‘ trait and currently rides on ‚+10 My Rivals died x2‘ mood buffs.
My dear bros and sis’s, I would look hard for another way to wage this war. It’s good you’re letting them leave even now, but your doctrine cannot only be „overwork the remaining sybillae, like, extra hard“.
Okay, their doctrine is „dude we need more simoun or we’re cooked, omfg!“
Uh, if they always were in reach of their forces… why is this a plot point only now? These things are the reason they invaded!
I don’t know if this detail was there before, but the individual trail lines are a nice detail.
Me neither, I don’t know why you’re not getting tomatoes and eggs thrown at you.
I think that ties in with the, let’s say, resurgence of belief that we already saw partially in the foot soldiers and Dominura herself. He’s probably not wrong, but only much later, I’d say, when people have found a balance with their changing times and their traditional belief.
That would be very soon, no? Also, why would that be?
I cannot overcome this choice of sounds. I really, really hate that they have begun using jet engines sounds midway in the show. No, I will not stop complaining about it! It doesn’t fit!
If they’re going to tell me that they already razed them and nobody of the incompetence Prime nation noticed, I’m gonna laugh really hard! Well, but at least that’s grounds (heh) for speculation! It is definitely an impact crater and the architecture was build inside and within it. So, their ancestors settled into that site after whatever came down left its marks. Well,
demonsaliens are back on the menu, boys!At least that doesn’t look like Argentum design. Defintiely a simoun, thogh.
Maybe the changing Ghost of Stormtrooper writing has left Paraietta now and took over Aaeru again?
That spring also is some time-wimey wobbly stuff, right. Gotta say, I do like that idea.
Oh, is it themselves in the other simoun in that sort of mirror/time paradox sorta way?
Is that someone we know? She seems plenty dead, however.
That’s clearer. It does seem to be the nomads- Eh?
I’ve made the mistake of peeking at the episode preview and…
I will carefully lay out the possibility that I might skip tomorrow.
I don’t know if adding time-space paradoxes will make this better or worse, but for now it’s actually interesting because it is a very smart idea when your bigger background narrative revolves around the changing of a system and the conflict between religiously or materialistically opposed nationstates. I admit, my first reaction to seeing the crater, putting together the “artifacts” that power Simulacrum’s superiority and the religion about “higher” beings bringing miracles, and the visual differences between Onashia and the others was a bit dismissive.
Like that, basically. But it’s actually a great plot device to tie together how pure belief (in a very advanced technology) can also work in both ways: Because the technology cannot be understood, but still works and also because the belief itself is powering the people that do the believing just on its own. And in this way, science and religion can coexist pretty nicely, even if the technology would eventually be understood.
I hope they can land this plot safely, because it’s promising. At least better than the original impact, that looked a bit rough.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 14h ago
(2/2)
On that end, remember how the capital temple is on a spiral? That could also very well have been an impact crater. I genuinely like the idea of opening up this world as lost descendants of crashlanded aliens who forgot their history and splintered into factions and now wage war for the pure hope of something magically solving their issues. I mean, that’s basically what I speculated in the beginning of the show, just with more details now.
Huh, maybe this truly is a Rimworld scenario where someone touched the Obelisk…
Uhm, I think you also want me to speculate on the spacetime warp happening? I have no idea! The priestess is somehow both dead by explosion and dead by simoun shootdown. It’s like the depressing version of Schrödinger where the only difference is how the cat died. I think it establishes that the dead aren’t only dead, but also alive and also dead in another time and another space?
Good news for Dominura and Limone, I guess. I do have worries how they’ll use this plot device, though. It’s pretty easy to just slap it on at the end and call it a good ending without doing any work to make it feel that way, so I hope they spend the time to make it feel earned. (So, unlike about 50% of the plot until now that jumps around a lot, oof.)
Onto a relationship in the way of being salvaged. Morinas is weirdly cordial around Wapourif again. This is another smaller instance of what I dub the “Ghost of Stormtrooper Writing”, or GoSW, that periodically possesses characters and short circuits their synapses. This is so they kick off something that the author wants to happen, no matter if it actually makes sense or is consistent, but the consistency is the main metric here.
Why Morinas? She’s a flirty and very social girl that likes to go around and live out her life in awe of the wonders of this world. She has been quite open-minded and accepting of others from the beginning, except for one thing: Her beliefs. Whenever she has called attention to something regarding Tempus Spatium it was always to call out someone who diminished the holiness of the simoun or the faith and she firmly placed herself as a follower and believer who does not accept someone to be close to her if they don’t hold the same values. It went as far as her walking up to Wapourif, giving him one last grab of holiness and spitting in his face that this faith is now lost to him for his trespassing on her and Tempus Spatium.
So, and now she’s just cordial and seeks him out like nothing happened again, or what?
Simoun has such a weird fetish for disregarding and undermining its own accomplishments, it’s baffling to me.
I’ve explained some more in a comment in one of the recent episodes, but I feel like doing that a bit more thoroughly in the main post again with clearer thoughts.
I’ve railed on Aaeru often enough, and for good reason, but it’s not an issue with her character specifically. She had the unfortunate luck of being the first to find herself GoSW’d and then, even worse, several more times to top it off. But others were also affected significantly enough: Mamiina in her debut. Floe completely gaslighting Neviril. Kaimu in the Sisters episode. And recently Paraietta.
To make this clear, the stories laying under these changes are not something I principally dislike. Mamiina’s arc of overcoming her perceived inferiority as commoner and showing her true value for Rodore to witness was great, eventually. Showing Floe as someone instinctively attaching and prideful to a fault while still looking to care for someone else and make this happiness her duty is a great story to have. And having Paraietta falter after a long time of acting leader, realising she isn’t up to the task of genuine warfare and feeling her carefully curated mask slip away under her fingers is a plot I could definitely immerse myself in.
I call it GoSW because it reminds me so much of how Stormtroopers are portrayed in Star Wars. They are not a legitimate entity, they are buzzword meant to evoke a certain thing in a certain scene. They are completely at the author’s mercy of what emotion or stakes they want currently and serve that purpose only, without any possibility of being an organic piece in a story. The key word for this is consistency. They are one of the most insconsistent things in Star Wars (Disney? What’s that, I don’t know what you’re talking about) and it’s been so obvious that they have become the literal textbook definition of the trope.
Simoun’s plot regularly uses a sudden and oftentimes (to me) incomprehensible change in character to execute a narrative or go down a character arc that I don’t have the time to digest or know why things are happening. And worse, this often comes right after something has been established or implied via proxy by others that shatters the character’s image up to this point. The inconsistency comes from the bluntness and rapid speed of change, not necessarily that it happens.
A few examples: Mamiina and Yun were at first established as ruthless competitor types with a chip on their shoulder and vengeance in their eyes. Within not even 5 minutes we went from that setup to, in sequence, 1) invasion of privacy, 2) near-hostage taking, 3) threat of rape and injury, 4) physical violence and 5) attempted murder. The next episode with her all of that was completely forgotten and nobody cared any more.
Paraietta was introduced as an unhealthily attached girl that got over her attachment to Neviril (fuck you, she did, rewatch the episode!) by proving to herself that she can be bested and other people can be reliable and trustworthy, too. She then proved this newfound wisdom by being able to call out this behaviour in others and stand above the spiral of pain this reliance on someone else would lead to. The next time, GoSW took her and reverted her character back to the start with none of the lessons she had learned present anymore. Woe me for peeking, but it seems to get much worse, too.
Aaeru is a rebel with a cheerful attitude about breaking rule- CMON LOLILIME LETS SNEAK OUT AND GO FIGHT ENEMIES AND CUT THIS DUDE UP WIF A KNOIFE!
Kaimu and Alti have a complicated history and have trouble navigati- Honestly, I don’t know what I should in put here? The alleged rape, the delusions, the chase to yell each others name and fall of a ship? I have no idea what they wanted to do with this plot, and they even dropped it after it was done. It’s unfinished and we never heard from them again!
The amplitude on these swings is unbelievably large and fast with little to no discernible reason on screen on why these actions would make sense to the character.
In short. It’s that some uncharacteristically possessed character constantly comes in from the sides and slams a folding chair into my sides the moment I settled on some agreement of what’s happening. Achivements of the narrative and the characters are dropped the second another plot is opened and I don’t feel any investment into a character is worthy of being kept because of that. It doesn’t matter either because as soon as the episode is done the achievement is put into the archive, never to surface again, or because next episode will abuse them in favour of the next problematic GoSW-powered ship of the day and make them a public fool.
In any case, I see the emotional investment into a character as an equation that will leave me feeling disappointed or, worse, having wasted my time to even care in the first place.
Why am I writing so much about this here? For one, I felt like I’ve shat a bit too much in the last ~10 episodes on some aspects on the show out of spite and I have a feeling I may have not expressed what actually drives me up the wall when it occurred, leading to some unfruitful discussions. It ended up only being internet hate. Funny hate, probably, but still hate.
Praises of Helical Motors powered by Tempus Spatium’s Grace: 23 (+0)
Violations of Helical Motors powered by the Scientific Method’s Heresy: 3 (+0)
All in all, this was a rather tame episode.
[ep 17 Q1:] How has Neviril changed since yesterday?
I think we have re-re-treaded onto her character arc where she has taken back agency, but this time she has it as an internal monologue!
[ep 17 Q2:] Who are the other simoun, and why do they look like that?
I can just reference the egg of the universe story again where one gets rebirthed into every single past and future lifeform and once all experiences have been lives, the egg hatches into God and a new egg is placed.
[ep 17 Q3:] How can the Spring exist in both the ruins and the capital?
Literally: The spring is a singularity that can connect to many places and times.
Metaphorically: Past and future civilisations still find connection to the belief that is available to all, regardless of origin.
[ep 17 Q4:] How can that be Angulus?
Yes.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 13h ago
Why Morinas?
I...I disagree with everything in this paragraph? She's not upset with Wapourif's tresspass. She's upset he put her back up on her pedestal. She doesn't want to be on a pedestal. She wants a relationship. Which probably why she's back in the hanger, after avoiding him (and the simoun) on the Messi. Wapourif isn't biting, though.
She started out saying "I'm not a soldier OR a priestess." She's never been very devout. She's not particularly devout now, but the recognizes that the Simoun are miraculous. She's never lashed out at anybody over it, though?
got over her attachment to Neviril
No. Like, literally, who is she to be picking Neviril's partner? She is no different that Nev's father in this respect (and others). Handing her off to Aer wasn't getting over her complex. She was acting it out! At no point in the last 17 episodes has Paraietta ever acknowledged Nev's agency.
incomprehensible change in character
I do agree this has been happening a lot, right back to the first episodes on the Messis with Mamiina. Pre-Okada. All that being said, Okada does write irrational characters so there is more irrationality and contrivance to come.
It’s unfinished and we never heard from them again!
Alti is basically avoiding Kaim, now. They don't interact much.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 12h ago
I...I disagree with everything in this paragraph?
Huh, interesting.
Because this
She's never been very devout.
is something I'd disagree with. She's been surprisingly strict in some sense with others when they call it machines or the like and her reaction to Wapourif disassembling a Simoun did not at all read to me like it didn't phase her deeply far beyond just a personal relationship bickering.
Her disliking being put on a pedestal is something I admittedly didn't catch that well. I can understand her actually wanting a relationship with him, that makes sense. Maybe still even with my reading.
Handing her off to Aer wasn't getting over her complex. She was acting it out!
I acknowledge we're seeing really different things here and a bit I get it, but I also didn't see that entire early plot as her taking control in the first place. What's still vivid in my mind is how Paraietta dealt with Kaimu at the end of that episode. That she got to acknowledge how everyone is fleeing from their issues by trying to be someone else's saviour or hero. Which includes herself! She declined Kaimu's advances and placed their relationship into a new dynamic by being more a big sister or mentor-type (the kid comment, the kiss on the forehead, etc.). Do we at least see the same thing here?
This entire episode cannot make sense to me if that revelation wouldn't carry over at least a tiny bit into self-awareness. At this point there cannot not be a change in character. Maybe not fully, maybe not relieving the attachment, okay, but there was awareness and acknowledgement for what she felt.
I do agree this has been happening a lot, right back to the first episodes on the Messis with Mamiina. Pre-Okada.
Gladly agreeing with you here, it's not singularily her, which is one of the things I wanted to explain.
That being said, I fear what is to come. Maybe one episode will at last solve the Kaim x Alti stuff, though.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 5h ago
Getting together with Kaim would mean letting go of Neviril, and we disagree on whether she ever let go of Neviril. Kaim was basically trying to seduce a wall. So, while Paraietta's actions here are correct, you see them as the mature actions of a young adult not yet under the influence of bad writing. Whereas I see it as a consequence of her ongoing fixation.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11h ago
This analytical comment is powered by Tempus Spatium's grace 🙏
And this episode actually goes further by advancing the plot just because
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
The Machine Spirit guards the knowledge of the Ancients. To break with ritual is to break with faith.
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u/The_Draigg 12h ago edited 4h ago
Floe so unphased by the death of her friends she hums while showering. In Rimworld I think she’d have the ‚Vengeful‘ trait and currently rides on ‚+10 My Rivals died x2‘ mood buffs.
Now I’m just wondering what everyone else’s stats would be in Rimworld. Like Aaeru would be incapable of dumb labor but she’d be a beast in combat.
If they’re going to tell me that they already razed them and nobody of the incompetence Prime nation noticed, I’m gonna laugh really hard! Well, but at least that’s grounds (heh) for speculation! It is definitely an impact crater and the architecture was build inside and within it. So, their ancestors settled into that site after whatever came down left its marks. Well, demons aliens are back on the menu, boys!
My thinking there is that it could be the former capital of the ancient civilization that got bombed to shit for some reason, and then the people that survived just decided to live in the crater afterwards.
That’s clearer. It does seem to be the nomads- Eh?
Time war!!!
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 12h ago
Now I’m just wondering what everyone else’s stats would be in Rimworld. Like Aaeru would be incapable of
dumb laborintelligent labout, incapable of social but she’d be a beast in combat.My thinking there is that it could be the former capital of the ancient civilization that got bombed to shit for some reason, and then the people that survived just decided to live in the crater afterwards.
Also possible, although the layout of the ruins does speak for quite extensive usage of the crater as living space. It might not be discernible what actually happened since all options would make the crater the same place.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 5h ago
A number of your recent comments have been in the fancypants editor and all your markdown has been escaped.
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u/The_Draigg 4h ago
I'm well aware of that, posting my notes into the Reddit app fucks up the formatting. I detest New Reddit and their app.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 4h ago
There is a setting to use markdown editor as your default but no idea what the reddit app does with that setting.
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u/SIRTreehugger 14h ago edited 14h ago
First Timer
I have low hopes, but I really want them to somehow survive that massive explosion, but I don't see how they would.
Just admit you love each other!
I'm curious what a successful Emerald pattern looks like because it seems to always end in failure.
MAN it's always Chor Tempest being the last ones able to fly. Maybe the rest of yall need to get your shit together.
THE RUINS!
OMG the eye catch of young Aaeru is so cheeky and yet very adorable.
Down one team this is going to be interesting not to mention they are all distracted...well I guess half the time they are thinking about their personal drama.
HOLD UP!!!!
THEY GOT THEIR OWN SIMOUN NOW!
THE TABLES HAVE TURNED!!! Wait, but these came from the ruins...aren't they on the same side?
huh....you're going to leave your comrades who are fighting for their lives because the music box is playing on its own...good thing this group is flying superior planes because their decision making and attitudes would have killed them 17 episodes ago if it was a level playing field. Actually I want to go back to the enemy side, but I feel the show has stopped showing us their perspective.
Last few episodes have made it abundantly clear Para sama doesn't handle pressure very well.
Onashia is everywhere and nowhere, new pilots, and the spring is also here!
I can foresee some major bombshells dropping next episode!
Wait the priestess from way back? HUH?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
Wait the priestess from way back? HUH?
She's in the character chart!
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 14h ago
Sibylla First Timer
Chor 16
I hadn’t expected that ParAer kiss.
This soundtrack sounds like old school Macross/Robotech.
This isn’t to say I don’t dislike Para’s little freak out, but the Chor Tempest now saying more things about war and survival feels disjointed. I don’t mind staggered realizations and development or negative progress. This just feels poorly executed based on Para’s development.
So it’s new information that Chor Tempest is being intentionally split in their combat power?
I kinda like this. Before, the stained glass showed all its colors. Then, yesterday, we had windows that kinda mirrored glass shattering. Now, the church windows are just one solid glow.
Oh damn!
Chor 17
I still am on the agenda that the Simoun gems act as some sort of gate or inhale the sibyllae.
And they were roommates?
Well, my guy, what did you expect priestesses to do, be Air Force units who do battle sims and are trained in the art of war and peace and have actual combat support?
Aer and I are twinsies with that thought.
If the Ruins are the most sacred place, then I am still confused why Simulacrum wouldn’t have more protections to ensure they control the flow of approved access. Was there no reason why a Chor wouldn’t be stationed at the perimeter for religious purposes, and different Chors rotate their time in the ruins? Or did they try and fail spectacularly?
Welp. Time to start the Rumbling.
👀👀👀👀
Para, get it the fuck together girl.
baby shark ddo do ddo ddo baby shark
The sax sounds so pretty in the OST
📢Finally!!! My girl Onasia 📢
This is the most random waltz music to do a reveal to, what
Post Episode “I’m Going to the Cottage Spring” Thoughts
| Episode | Girlkiss Count | Total |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 6 | 6 |
| 2 | 2 | 8 |
| 3 | 1 | 9 |
| 4 | 2 | 11 |
| 5 | 1 | 12 |
| 6 | 4.5 | 16.5 |
| 7 | 4 | 20.5 |
| 8 | 0 | 20.5 |
| 9 | 5 | 25.5 |
| 10 | 5 | 30.5 |
| 11 | 5 | 35.5 |
| 12 | 1.5 | 37 |
| 13 | 3.5 | 40.5 |
| 14 | 1 | 41.5 |
| 15 | 2 | 43.5 |
| 16 | 2 | 45.5 |
| 17 | 5 | 50.5 |
| 18 | ||
| 19 | ||
| 20 | ||
| 21 | ||
| 22 | ||
| 23 | ||
| 24 | ||
| 25 | ||
| 26 |
Is the Spring Cave just Arceus’s dimension or Universe Prime 😭
Again, I’m so bewildered at the strategy of Simulacrum. So to understand this appropriately, the holy order/government served one order of Upsetti Spaghetti to Chor Tempest for not doing enough while simultaneously:
- Not giving Chor Tempest proper recognition and support of their forced militarization
- preemptively axing all other sibyllae, and
- not having any sort of protective resources at heritage sites or sacred sites.
W U T
Onasia pulling up like this makes me wonder why she wanted to tolerate Simulacrum in the first place and for what purpose. She seems far too cosmic and ancient to allow a government like this to survive, but maybe she has less power than I’m thinking, or she is excellent at playing the long game.
I think I stand by the idea that the Simouns will be destroyed by the end of this series. I don't think there would be a way that the Simouns can remain in this world, even as religious symbols, without other nations continuously viewing them as technology that should be destroyed or stolen. But with Onasia saying that the spring is free of all curses, does this mean that this world had been cursed by Time and Space where everyone is born AFAB? But why? Why would the gods of Time and Space impose that onto “mankind” in this version of it?
It's a big day for us Time x Space shippers. Tempus and Sancitum sound incredibly toxic, and I love that for them.
Para's negative progression has me morbidly curious about her direction. Still nothing with Kaim. Still overly concerned about Nev that it muddles her leadership responsibility. I don't think she'll take these revelations well either.
Glad Wapourif and Morinas have some sort of friendliness towards each other. Silver lining.
QOTD
- She has a different type of resolve after the events from yesterday. And to Aer, that resolve isn’t what makes Nev “Nev”.
- I think this world is like Earth-616 and we’re seeing Simouns from maybe Earth-316.
- It’s a cosmic anomaly where it’s not confined to time and space.
- I think it’s a different version of Angulus. I also wonder if this version of Angulus could be a man.
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u/rickamore 13h ago
I think it’s a different version of Angulus. I also wonder if this version of Angulus could be a man.
MANgulus
3
u/The_Draigg 12h ago edited 4h ago
This soundtrack sounds like old school Macross/Robotech.
How fitting, given that Macross and Simoun both have dazzling air flying and messy as fuck relationship polygons.
Onasia pulling up like this makes me wonder why she wanted to tolerate Simulacrum in the first place and for what purpose. She seems far too cosmic and ancient to allow a government like this to survive, but maybe she has less power than I’m thinking, or she is excellent at playing the long game.
If she’s anchored to the Spring and can only really project her presence at different places, then that would probably limit her authority aside from having a strong say in government decisions. It could also be that Onashia doesn’t really care much about the Holy Land specifically, and is just more concerned with running the Spring itself.
2
u/Malipit 14h ago
If the Ruins are the most sacred place, then I am still confused why Simulacrum wouldn’t have more protections to ensure they control the flow of approved access.
We're talking about a nation that think having God Protection is enough
I think it’s a different version of Angulus. I also wonder if this version of Angulus could be a man.
I too think having a world fractured in two. One side being Simoun world and one side being a complementary parallel world where everyone is born male.
5
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 15h ago edited 13h ago
First Timer
I'd say this was more of a transition episode to handle some of the fallout from the last one and move onto a new arc, but I guess it's about half that, and half intrigue for future plot points. Well, for that former, we're back on the Arcus Prima! Except that, of course, circumstances have changed, relationships and worldviews have changed, and we've lost some people on the way, so their long-awaited return to the familiar grandeur of the Arcus Prima is mired in this felt distance and melancholy to highlight those changes and the effect of that loss.
(As an aside, brought this up in a reply yesterday, but wow I really did not realize the scale difference between the Messis and the Arcus Prima until now. Guess it was that cramped )
We don't really do anything major in that regard, but I do like the smaller moments going through our cast dealing with it all. They're all reflecting on the loss in their own ways, Yun is still doing stuff with sticks, but also being much more upfront about it, having experienced this before. Floe is trying to keep it positive. Wapourif and Morinas are mending a little, but still have a clear awkward wall between them, and of course, most important of all, the missing presence of the plushie is ever felt...
I do quite like seeing Guragief and Anubituf also dealing with the wider change in perception of the Simoun in a more forward way. They've always been much more realistic about the conflict compared to the Holy Land leadership anyway, but the much more direct "Not a request, an order" thing from Anubituf is fun stuff. On one hand, a statement on the changes in position they're undergoing and the current state of the war, but also on Anubituf's understanding, knowing that trying to walk around it like the Holy Land officials are trying to only makes things worse. Good show of command for once. Even more so in the dynamic with Guragief, who resonates more with the struggle of the Sybillae (From closer personal experience, as we know), and has to deal with letting some of that go.
In the midst of that, Neviril has seemingly completely rediscovered her resolve. I do think we were already on the way there when we left her off on that patrol, and I think it mostly makes sense that seeing Limone and Dominura committing to the Emerald Ri Maajon and its results is that final click that fully gets Neviril to change her mindset, but it does feel somewhat unceremonious all things considered, I guess. Though I certainly prefer this to Neviril swinging back to running away, so I'm not really complaining there. Actually, if anything, she looks to be swinging hard in the opposite direction, even leaving Aaeru a bit shook at her newfound forcefulness, so I am interested in seeing where we take her and this relationship. Together with that, her new and more positive state also inherently reflects on Paraietta's continuing negative one.
Last episode I talked about how Paraietta feels like she fits in with that wider theme about belief as a driving force and the effect of losing that, specifically through being a Simoun Sybilla and Neviril, and I think this episode even further breaks that down for her. Neviril's reinvigorated state and seeming choice to pursue partnership with Aaeru fully shuts her out now; she can't be either that overbearing support figure anymore, because Neviril doesn't need it, and she can't be a partner either. At the same time, we've got hostile Simoun now! And all the wider interesting implications of this aside, it feels like a pretty worldview-shattering moment! Not only does Paraietta have to contend with accepting a Simoun Sybilla's new military role, which she admits she feels very out of place in, now even the very uniqueness and reverence that was supposed to be innate to the position itself is being taken away.
I really like how Paraietta addresses first seeing these new Simoun, that is, in the spiritual "praying to the skies" framing. There's a certain loss of sanctity within that, you know? The whole role of a Sybilla is to offer Ri Maajon to Tempus Spatium through the Simoun, and here's someone not just also using a Simoun, but even using it to attack the Sybillae with a Ri Maajon. What are you supposed to make of your role and faith at that point if you're someone like Paraietta that was already uncomfortable letting go of that original ceremonial purpose? So with both of those, Paraietta is just left feeling pretty defeated and without a real place to stand in this episode. There isn't even much frustration; she's just really out of it, which is pretty sad to see! Not sure how we're going to pull her back up from here, it could be a good place to leverage her relationship with Kaimu, or maybe to find a wholly new place for her, but as Neviril puts it, the only actual path is forward, neither to run back nor to try and cling to the same position.
As for the rest of the second half of the episode, I don't have too much to say there. The idea of enemy Simoun is pretty exciting outside of the thematic angle as well, but we're not given a lot to go off here for now. Neviril and Aaeru choosing to disconnect from the battle to explore the ruins is... kind of dumb? I mean, I guess it's not out of character per se, but we're really pushing it in this situation haha. All the Onashia and Spring stuff is, well, it sure is something! It's fuller confirmation that we are absolutely messing with space-time on a very tangible scale, so even though I already had little doubt last episode, I am now convinced that Dominura and Limone are still out there in some different plane. How Onashia got to exist in this form beyond time and space, though, and really, what the true nature of the Spring Tempus Spatium is considering all of this, are interesting questions to be asked, but I feel like we mostly got mystery for now. Likewise for how Aaeru's grandpa and the music box will connect back to this.
(Also, I like the music for this whole final piece of the episode! The very like, carnival sound it has adds a fittingly surreal atmosphere to the whole thing)
Who are the other simoun, and why do they look like that?
Well, we've reached the expected point in the show where we want the Gundam to not always win and to add new stakes, so it only makes sense that the enemies now get the evil Gundam!
Seriously though, I'm honestly not sure. We see them coming out of the ruins, so my first thought was that part of this mission was also so that, given the current war situation, they could actually maybe secure some new Simoun the Holy Land have avoided touching due to religious reasons until now, but that wouldn't explain why they look different.
The other nations simply managing to create a Simoun is also a possibility I guess, but that seems fairly unlikely given how we frame it all this episode, even more so since these are fully capable of doing Ri Maajon, so it's not like a Simile-type reproduction attempt either. Actually, now that I think about it, kind of interesting that whoever was piloting even knew how to do specific Ri Majoon? I feel like that shouldn't be particularly intuitive for someone without some prior training like the Sybilae?
How can the Spring exist in both the ruins and the capital?
https://youtu.be/q2nNzNo_Xps?t=12
How can that be Angulus?
https://youtu.be/q2nNzNo_Xps?t=12
Though even with weird space-time stuff, I actually have no idea how she got here lol. Maybe because she specifically exploded together with a bunch of Simoun?
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u/rickamore 13h ago
Also, I like the music for this whole final piece of the episode! The very like, carnival sound it has adds a fittingly surreal atmosphere to the whole thing
Said it before, the music does a lot of the heavy lifting for atmosphere in this series. Definitely a star of the show.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 15h ago
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Simoun: It turns out that the Ruins are a forbidden place because it’s a place where space is warped and time is bendable.
Oh, are Morinas and Wapourif going to work through their issues together? I hope so.
The commander of the Sibyllae still has a hard time accepting they’re at war. The Arcus Prima captain seems much more used to the idea by now.
It’s so sad seeing that one plushie missing from Rodore’s plushie collection.
Yun is preparing another cradle for those who died young, presumably for Limone and Dominura.
Aaeru loves to just say shit that’s out of turn, but here it’s pretty justified for her to bluntly say that the Sibyllae from the other Chors were relieved of duty when their Simouns were destroyed. She’s right to point out that the Holy Land’s leadership has no use for Sibyllae without Simouns in a time of war like this.
Oh great, Neviril’s father is back. Everything went so smoothly the last time he was on the Arcus Prima.
Ooh. The Ruins? The most sacred place in the Holy Land that people normally are forbidden from entering? This ought to be good.
The Sibyllae are clearly uncomfortable about going, but are flat-out told they don’t have a choice. This is an order. The militarization of the Sibyllae continues. Likewise, individual choice and freedom has once again been denied to Chor Tempest.
It’s an understatement to say Mamiina’s changed. She barely resembles who she used to be.
If Wauf is so convinced that Dominura and Limone are somehow alive, then there might really be something to that theory.
Honestly, I like Wauf the most out of all the leadership figures for the Sibyllae that we’ve gotten so far. As captain of the Messis, he actually has experience on the frontline and so was quite worldly in his way of handling things.
Pariaetta really is clinging to her Neviril obsession as hard as she can.
Meanwhile Neviril seems to have once again become determined to continue with Aaeru, much to Aaeru’s apparent confusion.
The Ruins look more like a giant crater.
Oh shit! Are those enemy Simouns!?! They are!!!
Once again Paraietta finds herself freezing and unsure of what to do in battle. Right now she seems confused at the sight of enemy Simouns and also extremely pissed off that an enemy would dare be “praying to the gods” in a Simoun.
Aaeru has a point about investigating the Ruins if her music box is playing while closed for some reason around them.
The Ruins are connected to the Spring? Or at least something that looks identical to the Spring. Onashia is there as well, since I guess looking after the Spring is basically her full-time job.
An enemy Simoun got shot down. So can we get a clear look at who is inside it?
“I am everywhere. And at the same time, I am nowhere.” Very enlightening about how you’re here, Schrodinger's Onashia.
Tempus Spatium was originally two gods that later became a pair. Tempus controlled time and Spatium controlled space, placing people where they belonged. This does tie in neatly with the Sibyllae needing to be in pairs to fly the Simouns, which are powered by the helical motors where one motor controls time and the other controls space.
All of time and space is released from the spell in this place in the Ruins? What the heck is that supposed to mean?
I can understand this Spring-like place actually being the Spring itself, but what does Aaeru mean it’s just like her grandfather said?
Why is the dead body of Angulas inside that buried enemy Simoun?
There’s a lot of weird stuff going on in this episode. But, upon consideration, I think a good chunk of it is explainable. To go right into it, Tempus Spatium is to blame. We already know that Tempus Spatium can control both time and space. We were told that the helical motors of the Simouns can also control time and space. Because of all that, in the previous thread it was theorized that Dominura and Limone didn’t die and were instead warped to someplace else like a separate dimension. Here I think we get some proof that this would be possible.
Onashia makes sense if we consider her as someone who can travel across both space and time. That would be why she is both everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Because she doesn’t have a single fixed location, she is nowhere. But she can go where she pleases, which means she’s everywhere.
Onashia’s words about the Ruins make sense if we see them as a location where the normal rules of time and space don’t apply. That would be why Onashia says the spell is broken in that location. This would also explain how the Spring in the ruins could possibly be the same as the one we saw previously. Different rules of time and space, so it’s possible there’s a war gate of some kind connecting the two Springs. This would explain why we see Angulas’s dead body here. Time and space shenanigans warped it to the Ruins. That would also be why the strange different Simouns are there.
There are still plenty of questions though. Are we dealing with time travel or Interdimensional travel or both or neither? I don't think Angulas had access to a machine like the enemy Simouns, so why is she the pilot of one? It's not like she died with that machine. This also leads to wondering if Angulas is the pilot of that enemy Simoun in the first place. It's possible that she has been turned into part of the machine itself. That'd fit with the theory that the Simouns are powered by the souls of dead Sibyllae. And where did those enemy Simouns even come from in the first place? I remember characters saying that only the helical motors were dug up and the rest of the Simoun parts were added on later. What exactly is Onshia? Is she just connected to Tempus Spatium or is there something more to it? I wonder if she might not be Tempus Spatium itself.
QOTD
1) Neviril is blaming herself for what happened with the Emerald Ri Maajon both in the past with Amuria and in the present with Dominura and Limone. They had to use the Emerald Ri Maajon because Neviril wasn’t good enough. I assume she’s taking her new attitude because she doesn’t want anyone else to be forced to use the Emerald Ri Maajon.
2) My best guess is that these Simouns come from a different time or a different dimension and that’s why they look so different compared to the usual Simouns.
3) As stated previously, because space is warped and time is bendable in the Ruins.
4) If the Simouns can manipulate time and space with their helical motors, then it’s possible that Angulas ended up here when she died destroying so many Simouns. Perhaps something caused them to activate and warp over to the Ruins. Or maybe that’s not the Angulas we knew and is instead an Angulas from an entirely different dimension or time.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
Onashia’s words about the Ruins make sense if we see them as a location where the normal rules of time and space don’t apply. That would be why Onashia says the spell is broken in that location.
Oh, it sounds like you're saying the cryptic line about the flow of time and everything in its place is describing "a world line." With the Spring not placeable on any world line. I see. Translating technobabble is hard!
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 14h ago
Oh, it sounds like you're saying the cryptic line about the flow of time and everything in its place is describing "a world line." With the Spring not placeable on any world line. I see.
Basically, yes. That is what I'm getting at.
Translating technobabble is hard!
It does feel like figuring out what the technobabble even means is a major part of solving the mystery for what is going on here.
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 5h ago
Oh, a further thought. Relativity gave us E=mc2 which gave us nuclear power, modern cosmology, and nuclear bombs. Unlimited blessings and terror.
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u/Malipit 15h ago
First timer, french fansubs, 480P quality found on a totally legal streaming site. Perfect conditions for that rewatch
On today's episode :Chor Tempest becomes the best Chor available, Rodoreamon is mourning her plush and a mirror match for our Sibyllae
Welp, that one episode who will update my theories corner quite a bit.
I'll be honest, I thought at first the Plumbum/Archipelago alliance made it to the Ruins first and figured out how to pilot Simouns. And I didn't expected Onasia to show up in that other Spring to do a lore exposition.
If I understood it correctly, having a fractured reality that lead to a Simoun multiverse would answer several questions surrounding the plot. Especially why the characters behavior are so erratic. Each episode we're seeing an alternate universe that hold a lot of similarities with the previous episode universe but with a few subtle differences. For instance, in this episode universe, Wapourif and Morinas didn't have their argument inside the chapel that lead to Morinas ''dumping'' Wapourif. Hence why they suddenly friendly toward each other.
Same for Neviril and Aaeru. The Aaeru in this universe wasn't so socially inept compared to the Aaeru of that infamous episode ! That explains why Neviril was willing to kiss her in the pool and fly with her without fear !
Same for Paraietta being distraught to see Neviril going with Aaeru!
Same for Mamiina being nowhere near her version of her introduction episode !
…
More seriously, I expect to see the Simulacrum theocraty lasting another couple episodes before crumbling against the invasion and those Simouns for another dimension. I can't see an out for them given how they only have an incomplete Chor left and are doubling down on their incompetence.
Just in time for the possible last stretch when the remnant of the Sibyllae have to unite with their old enemies to fight against Onasia and her legions from another dimension.
Questions of the day
How has Neviril changed since yesterday? That's not Daikuriku-16 Neviril ! That Daikuriku-17 Neviril ! I told you that's two different versions ! NO ! That's my copium canister ! Give it back ! Who are the other simoun, and why do they look like that? Because that's Simouns from the other side ? The one were Amuria, Dominura, and Limone went following the Emerald Ri-Majoon ? How can the Spring exist in both the ruins and the capital? Given Onasia's mysterious speech, the Spring could be some eldritch location that can exist in any location, in any given time thanks to some quantum physics shenanigans ? How can that be Angulus? Probably the Angulus from the other side.
3
u/Malipit 15h ago
Theories corner
Theories in progress
From episode 1
Given the huge religious aspect of Simulacrum culture. I smell some shenanigans about higher ups knowing much more than they let appears and will be the actual villains of the story. And I'm sorry, but the character design of Onasia doesn't convey a ''good girl'' energy. But Onasia seemed the only reasonable people among the Holy Land Parliament. Making her either a Palpatine level manipulator or an actual good person. New development with this episode: Onasia admitted she's kind of a divinity existing above time and space. Giving some strong final boss energy
Following the previous theory and how the Archipelago pilots were portrayed. I suspect there will be a team-up between Sibyllae and Archipelago pilots against a greater threat.
From episode 2
People on Daikuuriku may not be born the same way we are on Earth. I don't recall seeing someone pregnant in the two episode nor talking about pregnancy. Erif mentionned his body will progressively develop a male chest and voice, but said nothing about his genitals growing a penis. And the Chor Tempest captain said they needed an equivalent number of male and female citizens for the creation of a nation, not for reproductive needs. So maybe there is a place similar to a source where baby girls comes from ? One that will dispatch those new souls, randomly or equally, to every nation on the planet ? And Simulacrum retains a classic family structure with parents and children. Meaning that if they born other than sexual intercourse, it's likely each children is either assigned to a family like they are assigned a gender. Or that there is a reproduction through lewd hand-holding act.
The Archipelago pilots here to take pictures of Simulacrum battleship might be a foreshadowing for a future reveal about them developing similar looking battleships of their own. Somehow, Dominura is aware of a new Archipelian aircraft stationned in their flying fortress. Could that be it ?New development with this episode: The last few episodes showed an upgrade in their aircrafts but not a Simoun looking new fighter. And even if it turns out they got their hands on those other Simoun, that wouldn't be Simouns they built on their own. Making that theory likely jossed.
From episode 3
- The Simoun tech used by Simulacrum may not be used for act of violence. Another watcher mused about Amuria dying because she used the emerald Ri-Majoon to kill other living beings. And this episode have some Sibyllae lamenting that their battleship used to be a place for artistic performance with their ballroom. Could it be that Simulacrum theocracy misused the Simoun technology to assert their dominance over other nations ? And the way the Simoun core activated through Kaimu and Paraietta feelings enforce the fact those aircraft are powered by love rather than hatred. But given the outrage inside the Parliament when Neviril speak about becoming fighters as well as priestess, there is at least a part of the theocraty that believes the Simoun tech is still used for ceremonial purposes.
From episode 4
- Magnafeana had some interesting thoughts on the very origins of the Spring :
I wonder who the first one to go to the spring was and what life was like back then. What came first: was everyone born AFAB because God is a woman and my Eve x Lilith ship is finally validated, or people were born a spectrum of sexes, but a disease caused all future generations to be AFAB? And if so—how long ago did that happen?
From episode 7
- deus_machinarum speculated on how Tempus Spatium and Animus divine figures complete each other. Implying they derivate from an old religion or a old god who got fractured in two. :
I need to talk about names of the god for a bit, I apologize if this has been mentioned already, I might've missed it: One the one hand we have Tempus Spatium(space time in modern parlance) and on the other hand we have Animus(simplistically: the soul, I'm also told by anime fandom that Japan has a very old animistic tradition i.e. ascribing life to inanimate objects which in modern times manifests as e.g. easier acceptance of robotic caretakers for eldery people); when we combine the two we get a whole so to speak, the inner world and outer world. It's easy to see how this could mean different but still related parts of the same wholeness. Definitely an angle I will keep an eye out for. New development with this episode: Onasia exposition about Tempus Spatium being made of two concepts enforces that theory.
From episode 8
- Given Aaeru's name signifcation, she could be of Plumbum descent. And Dominura's immigrants song being like the melody from Aaeru's music box is a serious hint of the later origins. *New development with this episode**: With the music box reacting to the ruins, it could be that Aaeru actually comes from the other side.
From episode 14
- The emerald Ri-Majoon is the most powerful one. But a caster who would use it for purely destructive purpose would have her essence dissolved and merged into the Simoun core. That would explain Amuria's disappearing without leaving a trace and Chor Dextra disappearing -save Dominura- as they tried the emerald Ri-Majoon for military purpose. And Sibyllae having already casted the emerald Ri-Majoon would be sensitive enough to discern said Sibyllae essence trapped inside the helix. Hence why Dominura reacted so violently to the Helix interior and why Aaeru sensed her distress. And Neviril felt in turn the energy of the emerald Ri-Majoon after performing one. New development with this episode: With Onasia exposition hinting at a parallel dimension, could it be that the Emerald Ri-Majoon is a bridge between Daikuriku and the other side ?
New theory
- Given people at Daikuriku are all born females and the possibility of another dimension existence, it could be possible that people at said other dimension are all born male.
Confirmed theories
There is no other Spring outside Simulacrum and only its inhabitants get to chose their gender : confirmed by that Archipelago solider in episode 4 who was forucefully made a man through artificial means.
Ri-Majoon does comes from the Sibyllae soul/heart/lesbian power and not the Simoun itself : Althougt it comes for Dominura speculations, there is so much occurrences as for now it can be counted as confirmed.
Jossed theories
- Ri-Majoon are automatically generated by the Simoun aircraft and the Sibyllae jobs is to interpret them correctly to perform the corresponding figures : Aaeru lines in episode 4 confirm it's the Sibyllae who initiate the desired Ri-Majoon
5
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u/rickamore 14h ago edited 14h ago
Re-watcher
Neviril finally gaining some conviction? Say it ain't so.
So the other choirs are done because everyone moved on... yet supposedly there are supposed to be trainees (cadets or whatever) always ready to take their place. Has the country just been bombed out way more than they are letting on?
Now we are really getting into the meat of things. Not really much to say without accidentally spoilers.
How has Neviril changed since yesterday?
Girl is like a pendulum.
Who are the other simoun, and why do they look like that?
How can the Spring exist in both the ruins and the capital?
Dual gods of literal Time and Space. Edit: Jeremy Bearimy
4
u/The_Draigg 14h ago
A Science-Fantasy Fan Watches Simoun Episode 17:
Well, at least Wapourif and Morinas are on civil terms again, although there’s still that lingering sense of things being left unsaid. I’m sure that Wapourif would’ve tried to smooth things over if he had the time to instead of being caught up in repairs. But at least things aren’t as tense as their last interaction.
It’s not too surprising that Chor Tempest feels low over the loss of Limone and Dominura. Poor Neviril is somehow blaming herself for being selfish for thinking she could move on from Amuria, while almost everyone else is trying to cope with the Chor losing even more comrades. And unfortunately, it seems like Morinas and the others believe that the Emerald Ri Maajon failed again, although that’s most likely not the case. Not that they would even begin to consider it though, since none of them know what a successful one looks like. Us as the audience can infer that it worked based on how differently it wound up being compared to Neviril and Amuria’s attempt, but there’s no real way the characters can know that.
I’m glad that Aaeru is willing to cut through the bullshit during the meeting with government officials. She’s not wrong that they were pretty quick to dispose of the members of Chors Rubor and Caput once they didn’t have any Simoun to fly. Once you drop all the religious pretenses, that’s exactly what happened, even if the head priestess wants to use gentler terms for being sent to the Spring. For being an important component of their culture, the Holy Land sure is quick to toss sibyllae on their asses once they don’t think they have a use for them. That, along with being ordered to secure the ancient civilization’s Ruins and being implicitly told they’re not allowed to go to the Spring of their own volition anymore really has just locked in how the sibyllae are just tools for the Holy Land to use.
It’s interesting how Neviril holds that kiss on Aaeru while they’re flying in the Pool, since it lasts for so long and Neviril has a kinda distant look in her eyes while doing so. I wonder if it’s due to her conflict between moving on and her guilt over thinking she’s betraying the memory of Amuria?
Talk about a surprise, it seems like the enemy has actually managed to get their hands on Simoun technology themselves! I’m willing to bet that they salvaged some helical motors from the ones they shot down before, and based the designs off of the ones that the Holy Land use. You can tell that they’re clearly ripping off the general designs of them while also adding their own flare to them, such as having purple paint and arranging the helical motors to be horizontal instead of vertical. This right here is the culmination of the Holy Land’s arrogance and stagnation, they no longer have anything to hold over the heads of Argentum and Plumbum.
This mission to the Ruins raises a ton of questions about the ancient civilization of Daikuuriku. For one, it looks like the Ruins are constructed out of a massive blast crater. And aside from that more objective observation, there’s very strange things happening with space and time here. Going inside the Ruins just takes you to the Spring somehow. And Onashia herself states that she is everywhere and nowhere at the same time, and that Tempus Spatium is actually a pair of gods that control the flow of time and put people where they belong. It’s only the Spring that exists outside of the flow of time and space. It’s just as Aaeru’s grandfather told her, and it’s probably why her compact music box started playing by itself once they got close. Just what kind of connection does Aaeru have to the ancient civilization? And on top of that, what’s even happening to the flow of time and space now?
Oh sure, just one last twist to add onto the pile before we go. Turns out that it’s Angulas of all people that they find dead in the enemy Simoun they shot down, in spite of everyone here having seen her blow herself up with a suicide bomb. Did the Plumbum priestesses somehow manage to control the flow of space and time to pull an alternate Angulas into this world to fly a Simoun? Are we going to get a fucking *time war*?!?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 15h ago
First-Timer
Episode 17:
Hey, so that all happened. I kinda got nothing again as far as analysis goes, the things happening in this episode just don't tickle my brain much. As I'm sure anyone who's interacted with my previous comments can guess, I'm much more interested to get back to the spicy character drama tomorrow. So much so I almost gave in to the temptation (hi Paraietta!) to watch another episode today.
The reveal of new, cooler Simoun is fun enough. It's the first time I've felt any of the main cast might actually have to work to stay alive, though learning every other Chor got owned offscreen makes this all feel like a bit of a farce. If the other Chors got beaten so badly that all 12 of their Simoun are inoperable, and Chor Tempest—who is nowhere near the capital atm—are the only defense left, how come the seemingly undefended capital hasn't been taken? Why is this still a viable war? Surely now that they hold air supremacy over most of the war zone, no amount of ground troops can stop the enemy advance, right? Whatever, doesn't matter.
The ancient ruins/the Spring/Onashia is effectively god incarnate. And she's everywhere! And nowhere! Such cliche! Being everywhere across all of time and space doesn't feel that surprising given some of the theorizing going on, but the wrinkle that Chor Tempest discovers Angulas and not any of their comrades is pretty intriguing. Does that mean these cooler Simoun are piloted by ghosts of the dead, and that's why they're stronger? Or are these Simoun from an alternate version of the world where the Plumbums were the ones to dig up Simoun? That could be a fun rabbit hole to go down since we know their god and Simulacrum's god are split off from the same original deity. Perhaps this Angulas is one from an alternate world who attempted the emerald ri maajon and was dropped in here. Or something.
Other stuff:
It somehow still wasn't completely clear to everyone in Chor Tempest that they're already soldiers and have been this whole time. Woof.
Neviril getting a bit aggressive is a fun little surprise. I'd take more of that between her and Aaeru if it meant them directly butting heads a bit more.
QotD:
Once you lose the fear of death, there are only so many things left to be afraid of.
I'll go with the other world theory. They're Plumbum priestesses and that's what Simoun would look like had they been discovered and outfitted by Plumbum instead of Simulacrum.
Space/time fuckery. Gods should be capable of at least that much.
See above.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 14h ago
The Arcus Niger is patrolling the border with Chor Ignis and maybe a few others, FWIW. The Argentum border I assume, while the Messis was on the Plumbum border. The holy land probably does have a serious two-front problem with the Arcus Prima heading to the ruins.
every other Chor got owned offscreen
No, those were the two that got bombed.
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 14h ago
No, those were the two that got bombed.
Tbh this feels like more evidence that the show is doing a poor job with the war business if I'm so uninvested that this detailed seemed like new info to me.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 13h ago
Missed opportunity to do the bombing flashback TWICE in the same episode.
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 13h ago
They could have spent the entire episode flashing back to it over and over again, and it wouldn't have made me remember or care.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 13h ago
Or are these Simoun from an alternate version of the world where the Plumbums were the ones to dig up Simoun? That could be a fun rabbit hole to go down since we know their god and Simulacrum's god are split off from the same original deity. Perhaps this Angulas is one from an alternate world who attempted the emerald ri maajon and was dropped in here. Or something.
That is an interesting extra wrinkle to add in and it makes sense if the Plumbum religion is so closely tied to the Simulacrum religion. I had wondered if the Plumbum priestesses like Angulas would be able to fly the Simouns and maybe this is evidence that they did in another dimension.
It somehow still wasn't completely clear to everyone in Chor Tempest that they're already soldiers and have been this whole time. Woof.
Some of them really needed it spelled out for them. But I suppose it means something that now even the religious leadership is ordering the Sibyllae around like it's the military. The militarization is hitting the top levels as well.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 13h ago
I had wondered if the Plumbum priestesses like Angulas would be able to fly the Simouns
Indeed, Neviril herself had speculated the same thing aloud. She said Angulus was a priestess (miko). Which means that Plumbum also defers gendering for some girls.
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u/JimmyCWL 14h ago
If the other Chors got beaten so badly that all 12 of their Simoun are inoperable,
Remember that their Simouns got blown up by a suicide bomber a few episodes ago? Those Sybilae seem to have given up and went to the Spring, ending their career.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 14h ago
First-Timer, subbed
Oh, are the ruins the same place the Simoun were dug up in the first place?
So the enemy beat them there and acquired their own Simoun then?
Okay, I wasn’t expecting them to arrive at the Spring. Or rather, something like the Spring?
No, that’s the priestess from the other country! She should have died in the explosion…
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u/GondolaMedia zj: 14h ago
First Timer
More Wapourif x Morinas is always welcome.
Well shit has properly hit the fan when Sibyllae are not even voluntarily allowed to go to spring. I wonder why didn't they keep some of the pairs from other Choirs who could have volunteered to join instead of forcing them to go to spring?
The ruins look a lot like a crater left by a meteor. Did Simoun come here from outer space?
Angulas?!?!
Oh I should have not watched the preview. Not looking good.
Qotd
1) She now initiates the kissing.
3) It might be that you can access the same spring from different entrances because of space and time.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee 15h ago
First-Timer
I keep forgetting to mention this, but do the Simoun look like seahorses to anyone else? I'm not sure if I'm seeing something that isn't there, but also seahorses kinda do atypical gender things..
Anyway, there's a lot of interesting implications here that I don't have time today to fully unpack. Onashia's comment about Tempus and Spatium being separate in the past lends some credence to the earlier idea that Plumbum's god is also related.
Some amount of Simulacrum's government and/or military finally have their heads on straight, which is probably good for their continued survival.
Wauf's been peaking at the scripts. He knows that Limone and Dominura can't leave the show yet.
Questions
Seeing someone else complete the Emerald broke something in her and she is now totally unfettered.
I'm not entirely sure, but the black Simoun have pretty cool designs. I like the vee-shape.
Onashia told us - the Spring is unstuck in time and space.
Well, she's not. Her forehead mark (and hair) are completely different.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 7h ago
Rewatcher
The plot thickens
We got to the secret place that was never ever mentioned on the series until now and it is so interesting and confusing. As a rewatcher it make me undertand some things for sure, it is a interesting episode to watch after you finish the series.
Seeing somebody else riding a Simoun is a flash and it to be a person who exploded in front of their faces.
They ended the episode on a cliffhanger so more tomorrow
- Q1: How has Neviril changed since yesterday?
She decided to get over Amuria death and follow the future, and that maybe she likes Aaeru, Even if she complained about it a few episodes ago.
- Q2: Who are the other simoun, and why do they look like that?
They're weird but so are the ruins. I need more explanation
- Q3: How can the Spring exist in both the ruins and the capital?
The ruins are weird, inserts magical lesbian shenanigans
- Q4: How can that be Angulus?
AAEERUUUUUUUUU, also the ruins are weird
About the trivia, if you like the song I rexomend See saw Dream fiel album and Chiaki Ishikawa Boku wa mada nanimo shiranai
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u/AbbreviationsWeekly 5h ago
So many mysteries that are intriguing. [spoiler kinda]I think the director had dreams of this being the first of many interrelated series’. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen.
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u/ArtOfKJ 14h ago
This one looks interesting where to watch?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 13h ago
Simoun is streaming only on the boutique service Darkroom.
Everybody is probably watching the old DVD rips (no dub).
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u/AgentOfACROSS 3h ago
First Timer
I’ll be honest, was having a lot of a hard time trying to find motivation today but I finally got around to watching the episode.
They’re playing an instrumental version of the ending theme on the soundtrack which I think is neat.
I love how much accordion is in this show.
Yun appears to be weaving something with sticks?
Oh hey Neviril’s dad is back. Almost forgot about that guy.
The Ruins. Very ominous name.
I like this scene inside this giant airtube thing. Been a minute science we last saw it.
This thing between Mamina and Neviril’s dad is interesting. I’m interested in seeing where else this goes.
I am becoming more interested in Captain Wauf.
Oh yeah, we still haven’t figured out what happened to Rimone and Dominura.
This desert landscape is something new, so that’s pretty cool
The enemies having their own Simouns is a concerning but very interesting development.
They're painted black so you know they're the bad guys.
Not sure what’s going on with Onasia.
I like the orchestral sound of the soundtrack for this part.
Okay, so if I’m getting this right, the Spring exists beyond time and space?
I have no idea of what to make of Anglas’s corpse being here though.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 2h ago
Yun appears to be weaving something with sticks?
It's a cradle to honor the souls of those taken early. She explained this to Mamiina down by the river during their vacation. She's been working on it since then.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 15h ago
Rewatch Host and First Rewatcher
Rewatch comments:
I'm surprised at the reaction to yesterday's episode, which was clearly supposed to be a climactic moment in the show. The ominous name, the build-up, even a special bombastic composition. People who are here for the drama were bored by the plot; people who hate the drama hated the drama. Only a few people said that they really liked the episode!
About character assassinations:
A lot of people, early in the show, like Pariaetta. She was mature, she was introspective, she comprehended her failings, and worked to correct them. And now she's worse than before. The thing about Pariaetta is that, from my perspective, she didn't change at all. If she had really understood where she was going wrong, she didn't really act on it. And by not improving on those flaws, I question if she ever really understood those aspects of herself, or recognized them as flaws. What I see now, is that she's just now realizing what a girlfail she is (I've never used that word before) and getting depressed, probably because she doesn't know what to do about it. That's really all I can say about here, because we are not done with Paraietta.
As for Aer, yeah, Okada does seem to have a problem writing Aer as she had been established. But, maybe, that's correct. Unlike Paraietta, Aer is actually changing. First, when Floe taught her that its good to actually form bonds with the people around and especially your pair. Second, when she tried, to the best of her ability, to apologize to Neviril. She knew everybody blamed her for something. She could have just dismissed their opinions like she used to. But she accepted that there was something wrong with her behavior. She's still not sure what it is. But acknowledging that has made her less overbearing. That might not be a writing fail. It might be character development.
Of course, we have Okada writing the show, so she'll do something new to cause drama soon enough.
A lot of people latched onto the "migrant" comment from Dominura, which had never registered with me. We don't know WHEN the migrants arrived in the Holy Land. It could be some time ago, and the clan, as a whole, is grateful for being allowed to settle. Or they could indeed have been recent arrivals, when Dominura was young. I also didn't clock that the migrants were selected for a suicide squad because they were less valuable as people. That might be the case, but I'm not certain. I mean, the entire establishment seems very snooty about who is allowed to touch their precious Simoun. It's hard for me to imagine them letting the bottom tier through the door.
/u/Malipit has maintained a theory that Dominura, Aer (who has a Plumbish oath for a name), and Aer's grandfather are all of the same migrant clan. I'd say that tracks.
[rewatcher] Okay, the show's storytelling sort of falls apart here. As if it's remotely believable that the Highlanders would use Simoun as weapons. The most slack I can give the creators is that they were only trying to scare off Chor Tempest.
Let's hope that Neviril's introspection here sticks. Unlike Paraietta's. It seems she's decided to take control of her life. But, we thought that before.
They had more pilots than craft...but it seems unwise to retire the extras, given the, uh, issues with the remaining pilots. They really should have set up a flying roster with the remaining simouns, possessiveness be damned. They'll take orders and they'll like it, or go to the Spring. Some of them even want to go to the Spring.
This episode really grinds my gears. Why, I moved to tomorrow's discussion.