r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • 3d ago
Rewatch Simoun 20th Anniversary Rewatch Episode 14
Simoun Episode 14: That Which Must Not Be Violated
"I may have to defile something sacred."
<- Episode 13 | Index Thread | Episode 15 ->
Today's Eyecatch: Morinas | Limone and Wapourif
Selected Harmony: #1
People, Places, Things
- Chor Dextra: A choir constructed explicitly to reverse-engineer the Emerald Ri-Maajon.
- Dominura: The only survivor of Chor Dextra
Discussion Prompts
- Q1: What happened to Sibylla Amuria?
- Q2: Are simoun machines, or divine?
- Q3: What do you make of Dominura's reaction to the helix?
Tomorrow's Questions, Today!
- [ep 15 Q1:] The Emerald Ri-Maajon draws moths to the flame. Does Dominura have a death wish?
- [ep 15 Q2:] What do you think about Wapourif's crises of faith, and his relationship with the simoun, the sibyllae, and Morinas in particular?
Trivia: While Jin-Seob Song is credited specifically as mechanical designer, Goichi Iwahata is credited as prop designer, but also for the ED animation, which features the simile, simoun, and Arcus Prima. Aer's musicbox is certainly his design.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Simoun: It’s time to commit heresy, but in the name of science! That makes it all okay!
I really love the painterly style of how the clouds are drawn here. You can see the brushstrokes so clearly. It looks absolutely beautiful.
I just sort of assumed the Highlands and Archipelago would be allied with each other because both of them were fighting against the Holy Land, but I suppose it’s fair that this wouldn’t necessarily equate to a formal alliance. Britain and France didn’t actually have a formal alliance at the start of WWI until after both had already declared war on Germany. A formal alliance where the two are actively helping each other is a much more dangerous situation for the Holy Land.
Dominura is right that the Sibyllae are going to suffer a lot more hardships going forward. No doubt she plans to be the cause of many of them.
I was expecting the eternally flirtatious Morinas to walk right into the same shower stall as Wapourif.
Morinas is so eager to hear the story of Wapourif and Floe’s relationship. I can’t blame her though, because I’m also curious.
What!?! They weren’t actually a couple!?! Floe just flirted with Wapourif, who refused because Floe was a Sibylla and he wasn’t, so Floe told him to lie about them being lovers in the past. That’s so disappointing.
Of course Morinas, the gearhead who just loves the Simouns as machines, doesn’t really get the religious aspect of how people view the Sibyllae.
This shot of Dominura and Wapourif in the church is so good.
Dominura is really going there, wanting to take apart a Simoun. Even Wapourif, who has always been quite religious in how he spoke about the Simouns, acknowledges that even he recognizes they are just machines and not necessarily chariots of the gods.
Dominuras is right that the Holy Land no longer has enough technological superiority with the Simouns to be safe against its enemies. Wapourif’s counterpoint is also quite interesting, pointing out that the Simouns are a source of reverence and hope for people. If the Simouns become just another machine, they may lose their effect on morale.
“You’re not going to listen to me, are you?” You of all people have no right to say this, Aaeru! Not after how you treated Neviril in the previous episode!
That is freaky to think about. Wapourif determined that Amuria disappeared without a single trace after the Emerald Ri Maajon. So what happened to her?
Morinas is so cute with a little model Simoun! This eyecatch is absolutely perfect! The other eyecatch with Wapourif and Limone is also cute.
I assume that Yun is telling Pariaetta that she is too disproportionately concerned about Neviril compared to the rest of Chor Tempest to be an effective leader.
Fascinating that Morinas and Wapourif have almost swapped the positions they held from when they first met. Morinas now says that she thinks the Simouns are chariots of the gods after flying them, despite initially calling them just machines and advocating for taking one apart. Wapourif is increasingly looking like he will actually take apart a Simoun despite previously voicing religious reverence for them.
Ooh, we’re getting the backstory for Dominura! This explains a lot. Her chor, Chor Dextra, was created to perform the Emerald Ri Maajon. They failed and only Dominura survived. Because of this, nobody speaks about Chor Dextra and the government denies it ever existed.
If Dominura now works for the Defense Ministry, then I assume those were the shadowy people she was speaking to back in the capital.
Aside from being fanservice, I assume Wapourif is also bathing in the river as a kind of cleansing or purification ritual before committing something he feels might be heretical like taking apart a Simoun.
It’s done. The helical motor has been taken apart.
What’s with Dominura’s reaction? What does she see inside the helical motor that Wapourif doesn’t?
Aaeru and Neviril really did spend the whole episode flying around in their Simoun. They were out there for about a whole day. Did they have any food or water with them? Where did they go to the bathroom?
The title of this episode is “That Which Must Not Be Violated.” As the episode plays out, it becomes clear that this title refers to religious precepts. We’ve long heard about how the Sibyllae and the Simouns are regarded with religious reverence in the Holy Land. The Sibyllae are holy priestesses who are believed to be beyond the reach of the ordinary masses. The Simouns are the chariots of the gods. These precepts will be violated over the course of this episode which is mostly focused on Wapourif and Dominura.
Wapourif was one of the more devout characters. Wapourif was the one who said he couldn’t have romantic feelings for a Sibylla because of the difference in status between them. As it turns out he and Floe were never lovers. His religious beliefs made him reject her advances. Wapourif was also the one who rejected the idea of taking apart a Simoun because they were too sacred. But interestingly, it seems like Wapourif has actually had his beliefs challenged for quite a while now. As a mechanic, he’s spent a lot of time working with the Simouns. That engineering knowledge has convinced him that the Simouns are just machines.
The other reason Wapourif breaks the religious taboo is because of Morinas. I’ve loved watching their relationship develop for a while now, even though Wapourif would always keep his distance because he’s just a mechanic while Morinas is a Sibylla.
I really enjoyed the interplay between Wapourif and Morinas in this episode. We see that both of them have moved away from their original positions. As already mentioned, Wapourif became less devout. Morinas, on the other hand, now seems to accept the idea that Simouns are chariots of the gods rather than just machines after flying them.
My favorite scene of the episode was when Wapourif kissed Morinas because it was the culmination of Wapourif’s journey. That was the moment when Wapourif decided that he would go against the religious beliefs he used to hold. He would take apart the Simoun and he would express the love he had for Morinas, even though it was forbidden. But it isn’t a happy scene. Instead, it’s a sad moment as we see Wapourif cry. It’s not easy to abandon beliefs you’ve held for your whole life and Wapurif also knows he could be risking his relationship with Morinas by his actions. It’s such a great scene for these characters.
We also finally get to learn more about Dominura and what she’s up to. From her background with Chor Dextra and the knowledge that she’s working for the Defense Ministry, I think I know her goal. Dominura is probably still trying to develop the Emerald Ri Maajon. I would assume that the shadowy guys in the capital were trying to figure out if Chor Tempest would be capable of the Emerald Ri Maajon. That’s probably why Dominura was reassuring them about how much potential the Sibyllae of Chor Tempest had. She was saying they still had the ability to perform the Emerald Ri Maajon.
Many of Dominura’s other actions make sense with that in mind. She’s making different Sibyllae team up to try and find optimal combinations. This also helps her to figure out how the Simouns actually work, such as finding the limits of who could work together with Kaimu and Alti. She ordered Wapourif to take apart a Simoun for the same reason. If they can understand the technology, they can hopefully reproduce it and figure out how to better use it for something like the Emerald Ri Maajon. Because of how powerful it is, the Emerald Ri Maajon would also help Dominura to defend the Holy Land like she said she wanted.
The involvement of the Defense Ministry also means that we’re seeing the disputes taking place in the high levels of government between religious tradition and military necessity. This conflict has definitely been one of the main ongoing themes of this series.
QOTD
1) Amuria completely disappeared without leaving behind a body. So, I would assume the black hole from the Emerald Ri Maajon sucked her up. Or maybe the jewel of the Simoun ate her somehow.
2) They are machines that are so advanced technologically that they are indistinguishable from magic.
3) Wapourif believed that Dominura saw something inside the helical motor. All I could think of was that maybe Dominura saw that the helical motors are powered by a forsaken child. I assume there's something she saw in there that made her question the idea that these are sacred because it horrified her so much, like an eldritch abomination.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
Aside from being fanservice, I assume Wapourif is also bathing in the river as a kind of cleansing or purification ritual before committing something he feels might be heretical like taking apart a Simoun.
Yep, I almost commented on that as well. Definitely what he as doing.
At the end of the episode, I'm certain he's convinced that he's committed a grave sin. Two sins.
We have a number of apparent obsessions in this show. It fits, that Dominura is obsessed with the Emerald Re-Maajon, and so are her masters.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
At the end of the episode, I'm certain he's convinced that he's committed a grave sin. Two sins.
Wapourif committing a sin by finally acting on his feelings towards Morinas. This series really loves its tragic relationships.
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u/The_Draigg 3d ago
I assume that Yun is telling Pariaetta that she is too disproportionately concerned about Neviril compared to the rest of Chor Tempest to be an effective leader.
Yun does have a good point though, Paraietta is still centering her entire point of view around Neviril, even if she entrusted Aaeru to look out for her. And that does track with the feeling that I've been having about her lately, in that her "moving on" wasn't really moving on at all, more like just putting up another layer of obfuscation between her feelings on Neviril.
What’s with Dominura’s reaction? What does she see inside the helical motor that Wapourif doesn’t?
Given how the helical motors control space-time, I wouldn't doubt it if Dominura had her mind taken to a place far beyond normal understanding. She got hit with some eldritch knowledge.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
Yun does have a good point though, Paraietta is still centering her entire point of view around Neviril, even if she entrusted Aaeru to look out for her. And that does track with the feeling that I've been having about her lately, in that her "moving on" wasn't really moving on at all, more like just putting up another layer of obfuscation between her feelings on Neviril.
That is an interesting read that makes sense. Pariaetta was still focused on Neviril above all else because she wanted to make sure that someone she thought she could trust was looking Neviril even if she couldn't do it herself. While the person doing the caring changed, the goal didn't.
Given how the helical motors control space-time, I wouldn't doubt it if Dominura had her mind taken to a place far beyond normal understanding. She got hit with some eldritch knowledge.
That is a good choice. Getting your human mind exposed to the vast cosmos of space-time would completely take you out of it.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
Aside from being fanservice, I assume Wapourif is also bathing in the river as a kind of cleansing or purification ritual before committing something he feels might be heretical like taking apart a Simoun.
I was thinking that it, once again, just didn't feel like fanservice at all. I'm really liking this angle on it!
Aaeru and Neviril really did spend the whole episode flying around in their Simoun.
They were so out of the way, and yet they contributed so much. Neviril's "Two people cannot operate by Majority Rule" feels so incredibly loaded to me, because if they cannot operate by Majority Rule, then how can they operate? We've already seen that outright rejection is pretty bad, but then there's also dominance, acquiescence, agreement and unity for possible ways to operate as a pair. Dominance in particular feels relevant to many of the relationships we've seen, including the reverence that made Wapourif wary of relationships with the Sibyllae, but also to Neviril's earlies statement that only when both partners are strong can they really embrace each other.
The title of this episode is “That Which Must Not Be Violated.” As the episode plays out, it becomes clear that this title refers to religious precepts.
Oh yeah, both of today's examples really did revolve around faith. But I actually felt it as a larger, overarching thematic point. Wapourif's interactions with Floe and Morinas (which Wapourif initiated without clear consent, for what it's worth) were not just about the violation of religious sanctity, but also about female sanctity in general. And in the past episodes, we've seen violations of sisterhood, memories and remembrance. It's like the show's asking whether purity and sanctity can only blossom when sheltered away from messy reality, and whether that's a good or a bad thing.
Because of how powerful it is, the Emerald Ri Maajon would also help Dominura to defend the Holy Land like she said she wanted.
And at the same time, we have to ask if Dominura is not pursuing this goal for the very same reason as why Yun is still a Sibylla.
The involvement of the Defense Ministry also means that we’re seeing the disputes taking place in the high levels of government between religious tradition and military necessity. This conflict has definitely been one of the main ongoing themes of this series.
It's also noteworthy because the shadowy figures Dominura was talking with expressed their frustration that the decision about Chor Tempest was out of their hands without a way for them to interfere, so it seems that the Defense Ministry hasn't been granted involvement at the highest levels of authority in the Holy Land.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
They were so out of the way, and yet they contributed so much. Neviril's "Two people cannot operate by Majority Rule" feels so incredibly loaded to me, because if they cannot operate by Majority Rule, then how can they operate? We've already seen that outright rejection is pretty bad, but then there's also dominance, acquiescence, agreement and unity for possible ways to operate as a pair. Dominance in particular feels relevant to many of the relationships we've seen, including the reverence that made Wapourif wary of relationships with the Sibyllae, but also to Neviril's earlies statement that only when both partners are strong can they really embrace each other.
That is a fair point. It ties in with the ongoing storylines of the interpersonal dynamics between all the different Sibyllae. They need to learn how to work together somehow in a way that everyone can live with. For many of the Sibyllae, that's still a long ways off.
And at the same time, we have to ask if Dominura is not pursuing this goal for the very same reason as why Yun is still a Sibylla.
I think that's certainly a possibility. She is trying to finish what her old Chor started, probably so that their mission will be completed even after their deaths. Perhaps part of Dominura's investigation into the Simouns is to find out what happened to her former comrades and thereby prevent the same thing from happening to others.
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u/deus_machinarum 2d ago
I fully agree with the interpretation of Dominura's actions. It makes a lot of sense with what we know so far. But I still hope there is some as-of-yet-unknown component to the (old) faith that shakes things up.
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u/rickamore 3d ago
Rewatcher
Messis Captain is a good dude looking out for the Sybilla.
Oops I didn't know anyone was in the shower that is obviously on. [rewatcher] This entire conversation is even funnier knowing how certain things turn out
Waporif letting what is effectively a teenager tell them what to do. What even are adults in this world, wage slaves only?
Finally we get a couple more pieces in the puzzle even if it's not much now second half seems to have more trajectory than just
What happened to Sibylla Amuria?
Vapourized.
Are simoun machines, or divine?
If anime has taught me anything the answer is yes.
What do you make of Dominura's reaction to the helix?
Just having a little break down, it's no big deal. We're just taking turns over here.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 3d ago
A *check notes* goberment official that happens to be a kid
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 3d ago
First-Timer
Episode 14:
I can't believe it, every helical motor is the Ark of the Covenant!?
I guess this is the part where we start suspecting the helocal motors are filled with Sibyllae or something.
Anyway, kind of a laid back episode compared to the last few. The big theme is piercing sacred veils. Fun theme, and I like the idea to parallel viewing Simoun as machines with romantic feelings for Sibyllae. Great idea to run this theme through Waipouf, or perhaps I guess it's more accurate to say this theme is why the character Waipouf exists. It works for me, I've wanted to see Morinas score a win (secret yaoi!?), and it's very much in the show's character for Morinas's W to be a painful, heart rending moment of personal loss for Waipouf. Just like with Floe and twink-kun. Floe's lovers and love interests are friggin cursed, and she wants the whole world to know exactly who they are too.
The other big thread here is Dominura. She's from the super top secret, legen...wait for it...dary Chor Dextra. I had to brush up on my Latin for this one. Tempest was the most obvious metaphor in the world. Dextra is evidently a feminine noun in Latin meaning right, right hand, and soldier, among other things (skillful-ie dextrous). Yep, that checks out. Dominura is (and Chor Dextra was) the High Council or whoever's right hand soldier, tasked with completing the emerald ri maajon, the miraculous ri maajon that will win the war or something. I dunno. Kinda seems like the iron ri maajon and a few others are already pretty unbeatable, no matter what anyone says to the contrary.
Dominura is very much trying to be the adult in the room. The forward thinking adult willing to cast aside religious doctrine that is hypothetically holding Simulacrum back from winning the war curb stomping all their foes. I appreciate how she's pushing Waipouf and others more subtly to question and reject the need for inviolable religious boundaries. Could be fun to see how whatever is jammed into the helical motors throws a wrench in her beliefs. No one gets to escape this show with their innocence or beliefs in tact.
Other stuff:
Chor Tempest sans Aaeru and Neviril had some more nice moments together.
Aaeru and Neviril sure are taking a long reconnaissance flight. I wonder how the Simoun are set up to deal with pilots needing to heed nature's call.
Oh, and I guess Sibylla Amuria is probably still alive. Kinda feels like cheating to only now mention her body was never found. I assumed based on everyone's reactions they did have her body and it was incontrovertible fact she was dead. Maybe she's in one of the helical motors now and that's got something to do with Neviril still being able to fly her Simoun with Aaeru or something.
QotD:
See above.
Kinda seems like they'd have to be divine to some extent, what with the magic lines that can obliterate man and machine alike when drawn correctly. But if they can be taken apart, it stands to reason they can be built in the first place and are therefore machines.
What's something only Sibyllae—or more accurately, girls who've not entered the Spring—could perceive? My only guess is other Sibyllae, namely the partner(s) Dominura has already lost if the magnitude of her reaction is anything to go off of.
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u/rickamore 3d ago
Maybe she's in one of the helical motors now and that's got something to do with Neviril still being able to fly her Simoun with Aaeru or something.
"Maybe the real simoun are the friends it ate along the way"
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
I can't believe it, every helical motor is the Ark of the Covenant!?
Perfect choice of commentface there.
I guess this is the part where we start suspecting the helocal motors are filled with Sibyllae or something.
If that was the case, my "powered by a forsaken child" joke would actually be close to the mark.
It works for me, I've wanted to see Morinas score a win (secret yaoi!?), and it's very much in the show's character for Morinas's W to be a painful, heart rending moment of personal loss for Waipouf.
Tragic yaoi and tragic yuri. These are the flavors that this anime has presented to us.
Dextra is evidently a feminine noun in Latin meaning right, right hand, and soldier, among other things (skillful-ie dextrous). Yep, that checks out. Dominura is (and Chor Dextra was) the High Council or whoever's right hand soldier, tasked with completing the emerald ri maajon, the miraculous ri maajon that will win the war or something.
Ooh, that's a good point about the Latin meanings.
No one gets to escape this show with their innocence or beliefs in tact.
No "war is hell" story would ever be complete without the shattering of innocence.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 3d ago
Innocence and Mari okada are not compatibles when she is on horny mode
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
Tragic yaoi and tragic yuri. These are the flavors that this anime has presented to us.
This is Floe's tragic het erasure!
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u/JimmyCWL 3d ago
I guess this is the part where we start suspecting the helocal motors are filled with Sibyllae or something.
Both Dominura and Waporif can see what it is. Dominura recognizes it and it shakes her to her core. But it means nothing to Waporif, she can't see the significance of it.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
I dunno. Kinda seems like the iron ri maajon and a few others are already pretty unbeatable, no matter what anyone says to the contrary.
My impression from what we've seen so far was that the Emerald Ri Maajon could be performed by just a single machine, unlike the Iron Ri Maajon which depends on the cooperation of all six. That would certainly make it much more potent.
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 3d ago
I got that, I'm just not seeing the urgency. Since episode 1, it's never once felt like any member of Chor Tempest has been remotely threatened by enemy aircraft.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
Rewatch Host and First Rewatcher
- Okay I'm listening and Wauf is saying shoukoku and reikoku.
- I wonder what that book is, that Yun is always reading.
- it was in a cloud...if the cloud moved....
- "Don't worry, I'm planning on becoming a man." Despite still presenting female, Wapourif is absolutely a man in everyone's eyes.
- Wapourif kicks the water as Morinas did. I dunno what that means.
A title with double meaning; the sibylla are untouchable, but so are the simoun. But this war has defiled them both. That's the general feeling. Wapourif embodies this contrast, as he faced this moral dilemma once before. That time, he turned away. This time, he has no choice, and perhaps just a little bit wants to see what lies hehind the curtain.
Perhaps the sibylla are just girls, and the Simoun are just machines.
WTF is with Floe. She has a rep to maintain. Can't let people think that that she failed to seduce Wapourif. Let's just lie about it.
As for Dominura, I have only a surface level reading. Perhaps she believes the survival of Simulacrum now depends entirely upon learning the secrets of the simoun. But, as the archeologists of Indiana Jones discovered, the box is empty. It truly is divine, and beyond human understanding.
On the other hand, the episode finally started to bring up Dominura's past. Perhaps she did see something, or expected to see something. Something in particular.
Angel's Egg keeps coming to mind. What's in the egg? It depends on the observer.
Unofficial Comment of the Day goes to /u/littleislander for accurately predicting Morinas's collection of Simoun model kits.
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u/GondolaMedia zj: 3d ago
I just realized that Mayano Top Gun is just Floe.
I was wondering why I kept finding her antics familiar. Too bad there is no fan-art of them together.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
Mayano Top Gun and Floe even have similar hairstyles, in addition to similar personality traits.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
WTF is with Floe. She has a rep to maintain. Can't let people think that that she failed to seduce Wapourif. Let's just lie about it.
Floe wants to make sure that everyone knows she's the most successful flirt on the ship. She can't be losing her top spot to Morinas!
As for Dominura, I have only a surface level reading. Perhaps she believes the survival of Simulacrum now depends entirely upon learning the secrets of the simoun. But, as the archeologists of Indiana Jones discovered, the box is empty. It truly is divine, and beyond human understanding.
The craziest reveal would be if there truly was nothing inside the helical motors and Dominura reacted that way because she saw nothing, because she saw that Simouns really aren't just machines and there is something completely unknowably divine. Dominura, who had outright rejected the divine nature of the Simouns, is shattered by staring into unshakeable proof of god. That's be the wildest possible answer in my eyes.
Angel's Egg keeps coming to mind. What's in the egg? It depends on the observer.
It's been close to a year since I first saw Angel's Egg and I'm still not sure.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
A title with double meaning; the sibylla are untouchable, but so are the simoun.
Not just those; it is likewise relevant to both of our last two episodes.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee 3d ago
First-Timer
You know, I did think that it was a bit odd that no-one ever held a funeral for Amuria. If they didn't have anything left to bury, that would make a bit more sense. Wapourif's comment about how she couldn't have been thrown out are only valid if her body was still in one piece.. Then again, if Amuria got turned into salsa, presumably someone would've had to clean it.
Anyway, the build-up to Wapourif's moment was good. It wasn't quite as horrifying as I expected, but also maybe it wasn't supposed to be? I guess the production is more on the side of "the Simoun are just war machines and the characters who don't realize that are silly" and as such the taboo is nonsense.
Questions
Discussed above.
The Simoun are like Aaeru, and refuse to choose.
It's like, the decision to not show what she saw was correct because not knowing is certainly scarier. But also the scene's presentation could've used some work.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
You know, I did think that it was a bit odd that no-one ever held a funeral for Amuria. If they didn't have anything left to bury, that would make a bit more sense. Wapourif's comment about how she couldn't have been thrown out are only valid if her body was still in one piece.. Then again, if Amuria got turned into salsa, presumably someone would've had to clean it.
I had actually thought that the block hole thingy just ripped Amuria's cockpit right out of the Simoun and gobbled it up, rather than crushing it within the Simoun.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
[Gundam 0080] Then again, if Amuria got turned into salsa, presumably someone would've had to clean it.
[Gundam 0080] Or turned into a pile of hamburger meat, like what happened to Bernie.
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u/The_Draigg 3d ago
A Science-Fantasy Fan Watches Simoun Episode 14:
There’s absolutely zero way that the Holy Land is going to win this war if Argentum and Plumbum are actually entering an alliance. Simulacrum was already struggling against the two of them when they weren’t coordinating, but the fact that the Argentum base ship is right in the territory of Plumbum means that there’s going to be a grander strategy at play that Central Command just can’t keep up with.
I wasn’t really expecting to have a Wapourif-centric episode next, but it’s interesting to see more of the perspective of one of the supporting cast. For as reliable of a mechanic he is, he also still struggles to grapple with his long-ingrained beliefs about the Sibyllae and Simoun and the practical reality of them. That’s why he never acted on his crush on Floe way back in the day, and why he’s still hesitant to obey Dominura’s orders to dismantle a Simoun for study, in spite of knowing that the reality of them is much simpler. Floe is still a normal girl, and the Simoun is still ultimately a machine. It can be hard to reconcile mental constraints with reality.
Yun does bring up a good point to Paraietta, even if she’s blunt about it. Even if she’ll still fly out to help Neviril if she gets in trouble due to the funk that Aaeru has put her in, Yun is still right to point out that it’s bad for Paraietta to still put protecting Neviril above all else if she’s going to be a good leader. If anything, the past few episodes have shown that Paraietta hasn’t really let go of obsessing over Neviril, all she’s done is put up an extra layer of obfuscation.
The Captain of the Messis did find out some interesting information about Dominura. Her previous Chor were basically experimental black ops, ones formed to specifically study and perform the Emerald Ri Maajon. And now that she’s the only survivor, she works directly for the Defense Ministry, and is answerable only to them. That certainly explains all of her new strategies and seeming pull within the Holy Land’s government. Her position affords her a lot of leeway with tactics, along with at least having a direct line to government officials.
It seems like Wapourif was able to overcome his barriers and act on his feelings, although it still didn’t really bring the kinds of answers he was probably hoping for. In spite of giving Morinas a kiss to express his love of her, he cried because he felt like he was violating someone sacred. And once he disassembled a Simoun for study, he wasn’t able to note down anything that he could understand more than he already does. Although maybe that last point is for the best, since Dominura *did* see something by looking directly into the helix while touching the helical motor, and her brain basically got fried as a result. Maybe it’s best to try not to think too hard about what the helical motors are beyond just their general structure, since they seem to just Demon Core your mind if you do understand something within them.
7
u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander 3d ago
First Time Sibylla
But don’t forget, it’s actually yaoi in disguise.
After two episodes of suffering, a return to form! Dominura’s ambition and curiosity about the Simoun’s has been one of the bright spots in this painful Messis arc, and this episode manages to sell its dramatic intrigue really well. The church setting for Dominura’s proposition, lots of silent gazing and eyes shots, plenty of slow character scenes, some fantastic Dezaki frames of Dominura, and of course lovely music throughout. Plus, “Sacrosanct”, what a strong word!
Admittedly, I was kind of skeptical when Waporif revealed he never actually dated Floe. Are we, like with Mamina, backing off on yet another of the show’s interesting concepts? But it actually makes perfect sense. Back then, he couldn’t pursue her feelings due to his respect for the sacred nature of the Sibyllae, just like hix refusal to take apart the Simoun due to its sacrosanct nature. Weaving the romance and Simoun plot together makes for a way stronger moment of answering the call for action than we’d have otherwise. He walks into the Sibyllae’s quarters we get a full minute of buildup before a delightfully wordless kiss. “The Simouns are machines, nothing more”. I’m willing to kiss you, merely a human being, and I’m willing to take apart this machine we call god.
I will say, I have no clue what Paraietta is cooking up. Why Yun? Clearly piloting with Kaim works fine, and she has no preestablished relationship with Yun. Even Yun herself seems to point out the pairing doesn’t really matter. Is it because she sees Kaim as more immature and childlike? Does she want Yun for her maturity and respect for mortality?
Dominura’s motives are more clear, and I’m liking the direction they’re taking her. Aer doesn’t have time for all this holiness stuff because she doesn’t care. Dominura, on the other hand, can’t afford to care about it. She sees herself in the position to save the nation from a conservative course she can see will doom it. Her scene with the captain is especially interesting. Neither an accusation nor a vote of support. We reveal information about Dominura—what happened to her Chor, her affiliation with the military council—but raise just as many questions. Struck from the records? Created to complete the Emerald Ri Majon? Is this where she gets her experimental mindset? The fact she’s military rather than priestess in affiliation does explain her philosophy. But the captain reminds her of the importance of symbols. Just what might she lose in demystifying the simouns?
The end of the episode makes a fantastic hook. We’ve felt definite progress, with Waporif committing to Dominura’s mindset of trying to understand the power of the Simouns. But we’re left with a mystery: what the hell did Dominura see? Could it be that she saw something related to Amuria’s disappearance? It’s lead-in to perfectly, too. You think she’s just frustrated by the fact all this lead to nothing, only for the delayed realization that she’s shocked by the fact it did lead to something, something only she knows and which she’s currently in no state to tell anybody about.
Come to think of it, doesn’t the fact a sibylla, Dominura, can see something that Waporif can mean that the Simouns are more than just machines? That didn’t hit me until rewatching the episode again later the same day, but it pulls the whole rug out from the premise presented to us throughout the script. Is that divine power what horrified her? Is the realization that he did desecrate a divine vehicle the reason Waporif has that look of shame at the end? Plus, if we’ve equated the false divinity of the Simoun to that of Morinas, where does that leave their budding relationship? I can’t believe there’s a whole additional set of hooks hidden within the surface hook!
Also, the eyecatches were both killer this week. When they’re not being objectifying, they can really cook!
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
Her scene with the captain is especially interesting. Neither an accusation nor a vote of support.
I can't parse that scene at all. Neither comforting, nor a threat. Or one. Or both. I dunno.
4
u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
But don’t forget, it’s actually yaoi in disguise.
What an incredible achievement to make something you might initially mistake as yuri (Wapourif still looks feminine despite being a man), then mistake for being straight, and then actually realize it's yaoi (since Morinas plans to also become a man).
Admittedly, I was kind of skeptical when Waporif revealed he never actually dated Floe. Are we, like with Mamina, backing off on yet another of the show’s interesting concepts? But it actually makes perfect sense. Back then, he couldn’t pursue her feelings due to his respect for the sacred nature of the Sibyllae, just like hix refusal to take apart the Simoun due to its sacrosanct nature. Weaving the romance and Simoun plot together makes for a way stronger moment of answering the call for action than we’d have otherwise. He walks into the Sibyllae’s quarters we get a full minute of buildup before a delightfully wordless kiss. “The Simouns are machines, nothing more”. I’m willing to kiss you, merely a human being, and I’m willing to take apart this machine we call god.
It was actually a pretty good choice to make Wapourif's past relationship with Floe into a lie because it so perfectly sets up Wapourif's decision in the present to actually act upon his romantic feelings towards Morinas (and also take apart a Simoun). The contrast makes Wapourif's journey and decision even more impactful.
Come to think of it, doesn’t the fact a sibylla, Dominura, can see something that Waporif can mean that the Simouns are more than just machines? That didn’t hit me until rewatching the episode again later the same day, but it pulls the whole rug out from the premise presented to us throughout the script. Is that divine power what horrified her? Is the realization that he did desecrate a divine vehicle the reason Waporif has that look of shame at the end? Plus, if we’ve equated the false divinity of the Simoun to that of Morinas, where does that leave their budding relationship? I can’t believe there’s a whole additional set of hooks hidden within the surface hook!
It is definitely possible that what horrified Dominura so much was the realization that there actually is something divine and that she had just tread upon something that really is holy. Her horror is the knowledge that she shouldn't have done that. There is evidence for the divine from elsewhere in the show. The Spring does change people at a genetic level to turn girls into either women or men as adults. It certainly seemed like Erii encountered something divine before becoming Erif. So maybe that will be the reveal.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 3d ago
Simoun First Timer
(1/2)
The timeline is five days. Then, I will quit all my gachas.
I always start them to play the story and then never do that because it’s often a mess to go through and takes so long while the daily stuff between grinding and doing the weekly events is much more “gameplay-active”. So, I’ll just end up with another halftime job.
Better to watch anime or get into FFXIV again. Dailies there have more long-term return value anyway.
I found some more time for the fanart, however! Even with a slight headache, painting the base colour background was pretty fun. Rendering the timelapse does take quite a while by now and I can’t upload them to imgur, maybe I’ll just do splits for only what I’ve drawn in the step to make it faster and do the complete one at the end. The issue is, I can’t only render partial time lapses in Krita, so I’ll need to do research first.
Simoun Ep.14 – That Which Must Not Be Violated
That expression carries more insight than her entire characterisation yesterday. So, the first two episodes with Okada had this much of a tone difference and the second we go back to another writer I’m getting the feeling the character gets grounded again. Man, a writing team shouldn’t be producing episodes this detached from another.
Oh, it’s an intentional rumour, haha. Yeah, Floe would be this prideful about it. That’s actually putting me more at ease.
Ironically, Floe probably does most out of all of them by now. The way they’re sheltered and don’t even realise their reach in society is one of those super interesting angles to the sybillae.
Ah, I see the logic she’s getting at. If they are so „holy“, why didn’t God ever intervene? Well, because they are just machines.
Can Dominura stay in this characterisation please? Her trying to navigate religion and politics is much more interesting than grooming Limone.
Yes! Let’s go found the DIC! The Dominura Industrial Complex!
I like how Wapourif is thinking ahead of just the mechanical process and sees it as betraying the trust of believers who need this stability and comfort from their religion.
Oh, it’s so ironic because that is the exact reasoning Argentum has to invade. Now Simulacrum has to face the reality that it’s pretty valid to do so themselves.
Well, they kept the ingrained arrogance in Aaeru’s ignorance. Well, it’s consistent.
Wait, we are on the Arcus Prima now? Wait, sorry, I was just thinking about this. How can they teleport around like that? If Morinas and Wapourif are on the Messis, how did he just walk onto the Prima? If Wapourif was staying on the Prima, how did Morinas and Dominura just spawn on the big carrier to take a shower and chat? It’s definitely on the Arcus Prima because the Messis doesn’t have internal storage for the simoun.
Also just thought of this.If the simoun is just a machine, then the failing Emerald wasn’t a mechanical error, it was that Neviril herself inverted the Ri Maajon into an explosion that killed Amuria. Because she resisted the will of her sagitta to kill another human. So, she actually directly killed her…
Oh wait, haha, that was all just flashback. Why the transition scene to the Prima, then? I genuinely thought she’d dismantle a simoun of chor Rubor or something.
Sneaky little Morinas knows when gossip reeks like bullshit.
I don’t like that they stick with Paraietta’s regression. We were over this!
Morinas is still quite pure in her view and the scene setting reflects that. Literally, Wapourif is in the shadow of the tree, same as Dominura was when talking to him, while Morinas is not only facing light, she’s also bathed in sparkly reflections of blue-pink-white water. You can’t get more fairy or godly lighting than this.
Doubts have successfully been planted. And with it, a real danger for a pretty epic relationship.
Hmm, I see why Dominura is also keen on understanding the simoun. It’s both because of politics and also because she wants to know why her friends died.
That is true wisdom from the skipper here. Religion or not, belief is actually one of the most important things for acting.
Wapourif is now fully in the dark and bathing in the same waters that a sybilla once touched. The symbolism is not lost on me for how he sees his position and that he is about to violate it. It may not be just the right mood, but Wapourif’s helical motors are (yet still) powered by Tempus Spatium’s Grace. Praise #21
Him entering the sleeping quarters is the most blunt show of a crossing of borders for Wapourif.
Wwwoooooaaaahh!? That’s a violation! By Tempus Spatium, this is a lot of violation! I’m actually so shockedthis is hyping me up! Heresy #1
This hurts Morinas! Nooo! The pain is powered by the Scientific Method’s Logic.
You know what’s on the menu now? Manufacturing of even greater war machines!
Aaahh, the warm embrace of well constructed scenes. Wapourif is standing on a dark spike that is aiming at the sybillae who just got roughly woken up by the consequences of a violation of their belief. Oh, the threat this entire scene implies! Heresy #2
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 3d ago
(2/2)
So, let me check the credits. Shigeru Ueda directed this episode but I don’t see a script credit on Anilist, so I think he also did most of that.
Which means, can I have just more of that? That was great, fantastic even!
See, I’m loving this so much because it interweaves relationships, political change and plot reveals so neatly together I could gush all day over it. It was painful to see Wapourif and Morinas taking different paths, but how it was done makes it even more heartbreaking because both are right and completely understandable.
But first, I need to loose some words on the difference between the religious stratum and the general public because it’s important for both of their characters. We’ve seen several episodes now that the common folk have a vastly different view of the Temple priestesses and sybillae then both what’s actually going on and how they see themselves. To the average person their belief in Tempus Spatium and their representatives in the world, the sybillae flying simoun, is a massive crutch to hardships in life, a source of inspiration and hope, a comfort in social life and times of need alike. Seeing a simoun flying isn’t just a plane, it’s a symbol in every little detail it encompasses. Part of this mystery requires that it is not understood, ironically. For when you know how it works or even just know enough things how it doesn’t, that symbol and the comfort it brings is diminished.
It’s a kind of paradox about belief and the Placebo effect in general. The subject of a belief is not that important, the act of believing is the actual core of it. So, picking a subject that is most unexplainable is the best suited for belief to work. That’s why little sugar pills don’t work when you clearly know they’re just sugar powder, but somehow do work a little when a loved parent or partner prepares them for you. Because of this I also have to say that picking machines that can clearly be measured against observable physics are a straight up terrible choice as subject of belief. They are so easily disproven. But that’s derailing the point.
To the common people, seeing simoun flying and performing Ri Maajons is their medicine. It’s not even about what Ri Maajon, it’s that the sybillae tkae pride in their service and the people feel heard and blessed seeing them. And most sybillae are aware of this, but also not really. Aside from the fact that most of them are teens with all the angst coming with that, they cannot really perceive just how important this role is to a poor man or a woman struggling with her life.
This is a major point of why the Morinas x Wapouriof relationship was so interesting already. Morinas has a very defined interpretation of their religion and is very pure about it, but still in a way that she’s playful and energetic beyond just being a servant to faith. Similarly, Wapourif also is (was) traditionalcore about it, but firmly someone more aligned with commoners (even though he probably isn’t strictly a commoner, since he’s a mechanic for the simoun and that’s pretty prestigious) and understands the limits of his position, especially regarding the sybillae themselves.
They were a pretty perfect pair to showcase how a working and healthy relationship between believer and messenger of faith can work and be strong.
And then the agents of change pulled belief down from high up and looked inside to measure it. Dominura, both coming from a position of loss and pain and also aligned with forces beyond religion that desire measurable change, convinced the commoner to question his belief.
What makes this symbolism so powerful is that the process happening here and the outcome are so crisp in the narrative.
See, in the cinematography Wapourif continues to slowly move from being in the light to become more shrouded in shadows and stands atop of symbols of offense and danger pointed at members of the religious stratum and that’s easy enough to spot, but his actions change drastically during this episode. He’d look away from Morinas helical motors while worshipping them silently and properly like a believer should, he’d shy away from showering with her out of respect, but then infiltrate their bedrooms while they sleep and are most defenseless, force an unconsensual kiss (although not a wholly unwelcome one) in a way that just screams violation and with this completely sacrifices his faith and former decency as believer in service of progress and knowledge. And, in a way, due to misguided corruption from a former sybilla herself.
But that’s not all, knowledge was gained, progress was achieved, but the price was tremendous. And here the lore gets incredibly interesting again. Wapourif didn’t find anything, which… is quite suspicious, no? I think that he truly found the truth, the truth of what he believes. Which is nothing more than a machine that works with physics. Dominura worked him to a point where he lost the placebo effect about the simoun and couldn’t see more than just a helical motor spinning.
And then Dominura took a look and boy, did we get information here. She definitely didn’t just see a helical motor that can spin. This entire outcome is a pure tragedy for how many things found their end today. That’s because if I’m reading this right, Dominura doesn’t actually believe the simoun are just machines, but it’s her cope for the loss of her chor. She might be very much in the same position as Neviril, where she might’ve been the one to unconsciously fuck up the Emerald and kill everyone else. Being manipulative and secretive, ruthless and calculating is a way to claw back agency from such a loss, but being confronted with the truth (powered by Tempus Spatium’s Grace™) while she was not ready for it, took a harsh toll.
More than just losing sanity or belief, we lost a relationship today and that probably hurts most. Wapourif’s kiss was a last farewell because I think he doesn’t give himself any more chances or religious integrity after he’d done the thing. At least wanted to let Morinas continue on without corrupting her, but still, his trespassing is already a point of no return and a big „crime“ that was just there to fulfill that one desire at least once before it was too late.
These episodes focussing on the social dynamic and interpersonal relationships together are so good! I feel like I have words now why I dislike episodes that focus only on personal drama so incredibly much. They just feel cheap and meaningless on top of being egregiously and artificially dramatic. Stuff like today is when I love this show, where it can portray the gradual change and subversion of society, the rollercoaster of relationships and emotions, and the revelations and plots happening in the progressing story all at once, making them all better for being intertwined.
Praises of Helical Motors powered by Tempus Spatium’s Grace: 21 (+1)
It doesn’t feel entirely right to count some of these scenes as praises, but still I think they were so significant that I need to track them somehow.
Violations of Helical Motors powered by the Scientific Method’s Heresy: 2 (+2)
What do you think having two counters now and making them a race between grace and heresy? It’s not exactly that accurate, since I technically would need to retroactively count some points to heresy, but I’m too lazy now.
[ep 14 Q1:] What happened to Sibylla Amuria?
To
shredsthe atomic level, you say?As said, I believe that the simoun are somewhat literally wish-cores where what you believe in is what they draw from. In that moment Amuria was consumed by the intense reprehension Neviril felt when realising she was killing humans. To go even further, I also think it could be possible that Amuria did keep on existing within Neviril, as she would care enough for her to try to heal her wounds. Just like everyone else tried to fix another’s issues.
[ep 14 Q2:] Are simoun machines, or divine?
All magic is just science left to be discovered. I mean, we even scientifically proved, researched and commodified the placebo effect – and that is literally nothing being used to do shit. That being said, I like the art-esque interpretation that some things are meant to be magical because humans want it to be and that’s where beauty and meaning come from.
So, yes, I kinda believe in magic because I think it’d just be cooler if that was real.
[ep 14 Q3:] What do you make of Dominura's reaction to the helix?
She didn’t lose her belief, but her trauma made it twisted and corrupt due to the pain and loss. It’s this that she saw inside the motor. I mean, or it was literally just a breakdown because she expected an answer and got none.
Would also fit and it would be a bit hilarious.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
All episodes from here are scripted by either Okada or Nishimura. Nishimura will generally storyboard the episodes he scripted, as well.
I think you articulated what the show is trying to say about religion, not the organization at the top, but how it speaks to the people at the bottom. That it helps them get through their daily lives. It doesn't matter if the religion is real or not.
But there's also the darker side, where people only accept the rule of their betters because they are better, by divine ordination. And we end up with the static, stratified society that is Simulacrum. The Simoun are the foundations of that.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 3d ago
Oh, a Wapourif x Morinas shower scene.
A really steamy shower scene too.
The way they’re sheltered and don’t even realise their reach in society is one of those super interesting angles to the sybillae.
It's pretty ironic. The Sibyllae are so symbolically and religiously important that there are cut off from the rest of society. That very isolation only raises their status in the eyes of the common folk. But it also means the Sibyllae don't realize just how important they are to the common folk, which we saw with how they interacted with the soldiers.
Oh, it’s so ironic because that is the exact reasoning Argentum has to invade. Now Simulacrum has to face the reality that it’s pretty valid to do so themselves.
War has a way of doing that. In order to win the war, people will resort to extreme measures that might even go against the very ideals they say they are fighting for.
The pain is powered by the Scientific Method’s Logic.
Aaahh, the warm embrace of well constructed scenes. Wapourif is standing on a dark spike that is aiming at the sybillae who just got roughly woken up by the consequences of a violation of their belief. Oh, the threat this entire scene implies!
Good observation about the cinematography of the scene and how all the characters are positioned.
Also just a fantastic writeup about the way the Simouns and Sibyllae are viewed by the common people and how it acts as a sort of placebo to give them hope and meaning in their lives. Great work going into that and the dangers of then uncovering how the Simouns actually work because it risks undoing the placebo effect.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
The timeline is five days. Then, I will quit all my gachas.
Oh, it’s so ironic because that is the exact reasoning Argentum has to invade.
I never put that together!
Wapourif is now fully in the dark and bathing in the same waters that a sybilla once touched.
You think Sibyllae bathwater would sell well?
Aaahh, the warm embrace of well constructed scenes. Wapourif is standing on a dark spike that is aiming at the sybillae who just got roughly woken up by the consequences of a violation of their belief. Oh, the threat this entire scene implies!
You're saying Wapourif is standing on a phallic object pointed at the Sibyllae?
So, let me check the credits. Shigeru Ueda directed this episode but I don’t see a script credit on Anilist, so I think he also did most of that.
Junji Nishimura would be the scriptwriter for today, according to ANN.
He’d look away from Morinas helical motors while worshipping them silently
He does look like he's taking a prayer there
Wapourif didn’t find anything, which… is quite suspicious, no?
I mean, I wouldn't expect them to understand a warp drive even if they took it apart.
3
u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 2d ago
You think Sibyllae bathwater would sell well?
Oh you have no idea!
You're saying Wapourif is standing on a phallic object pointed at the Sibyllae?
I don't know where people generally make the cut between phallic object and "impalement object in the killing sense". I see it as the latter, for the record.
Also, I'll just note that Morinas was the one side-stepping that one.
Junji Nishimura would be the scriptwriter for today, according to ANN.
Right, I'll send my praise there, then.
2
u/IndependentMacaroon 2d ago
So, let me check the credits. Shigeru Ueda directed this episode but I don’t see a script credit on Anilist, so I think he also did most of that.
Which means, can I have just more of that? That was great, fantastic even!
See, I’m loving this so much because it interweaves relationships, political change and plot reveals so neatly together I could gush all day over it.
Yes, this is one of the two episodes so far I would call great, besides the political meeting one - unsurprising also that this one doesn't have Okada writing. And while the general visual quality is as mediocre as ever, some of the framing and direction is actually pretty inspired
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 1d ago
Script (eps 12, 13, 15, 16, 18, 20, 21, 23, 24)
I need to be strong, don't I?
Well, if anything I know that Okada's style can also lead to very powerful conclusions, so I'll keep that hope alive even though my general reaction to some episodes does sour it.
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u/Malipit 3d ago
That expression carries more insight than her entire characterisation yesterday. So, the first two episodes with Okada had this much of a tone difference and the second we go back to another writer I’m getting the feeling the character gets grounded again. Man, a writing team shouldn’t be producing episodes this detached from another.
B-b-but the new banner will be up in six days !
Ah, I see the logic she’s getting at. If they are so „holy“, why didn’t God ever intervene? Well, because they are just machines.
Hence why some religions came up with the free will concept to justify why God doesn't intervene when we're this close to blow up its creation
We never heard of that, did we?
There was one line mentionning how Dominura was the sole survivor of her previous Chor. But without going into the details
Aaahh, the warm embrace of well constructed scenes. Wapourif is standing on a dark spike that is aiming at the sybillae who just got roughly woken up by the consequences of a violation of their belief. Oh, the threat this entire scene implies
Next episode :
2
u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 2d ago
B-b-but the new banner will be up in six days !
Wrong quote, maybe?
Yeah, that's why I need to be quick else I see the trailer and go, "Ah, just this week more".
2
u/Malipit 2d ago
Wrong quote, maybe?
Yeah, that's why I need to be quick else I see the trailer and go, "Ah, just this week more".
Gacha trailers are like this cursed video from the Ring : watch it and you're doomed to pull for a character in a week or so.
Exactly what happened to me with Sandrone trailer from Genshin Impact2
u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 2d ago
Columbina and Zibai for me in Genshin until realising that this game hasn't updated it's gameplay or qol in 3 years. Then I got stuck in ZZZ because of the physics and stayed for the entirety of Angels of Delusion to now. Currently in Honkai: Star Rail I thought I finally quit after realising I'll never be in the mood to finish Amphoreus, just to have Himeko Nova come along and emotionally break me with that trailer.
The big boss for me is NIKKE, though. It's just too easy to do your dailies so I just keep playing and then I suddenly bought the gacha skin.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 3d ago
Rewatcher
They were right entrusting Okada with the second half 3/3 messy relationship so far, loving it. I love the don't worry I'll be a man too very bros over hoes tone. Morinas is a wild card, you will never know how things will go and I'm afraid they let Okada use her...
Simoun are just machine, maybe for adults but Dominia saw something there.
What happened to Sibylla Amuria?
- Q1: What happened to Sibylla Amuria?
She's not here at least. She is not stuck on the washing machine Simoun either
- Q2: Are Simoun machines, or divine?
Both? There is something hidden there, definetly.
- Q3: What do you make of Dominura's reaction to the helix?
There is something that only kids or Sybilae can see. Something scary.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
I got Junji Ito vibes somebody's comment in the previous rewatch, too!
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 3d ago
I was thinking of Lovecraft people going crazy because they saw something.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 3d ago
First-Timer, subbed
Well dang. And the higher-ups wanted them to do nothing about the ship they found?
Hoh… that’s interesting.
Hooboy. Right there in the same room everyone’s sleeping?
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u/Malipit 3d ago
First timer, french fansubs, 480P quality found on a totally legal streaming site. Perfect conditions for that rewatch
On today's episode :Wapourif becomes an atheist, Dominura fails a sanity check and a rare occurrence of hair down Mamiina
Poor Neviril, being stuck in her aircraft with the one person she fear the most. All that because said person won't return to their base until they found their target.
Speaking of that, was something lost in translation. Or did the search and destroy mission requested by Dominura suddenly turned into a simple recon operation from one episode to another ?
Anyway, being stuck together for practically 24 hours give the occasion to talk more with an open heart. As the light coming up on both Sibyllae would suggest. Them looking in different directions showing how they can't understand each other opinion.
But I used ''suggest'' as a word because... That whole scene isn't developed at all ? Like they're in an uncomfortable agree to disagree stance that doesn't resolve anything for now ? Besides, Aaeru lamenting her opinion doesn't count is a bit rich for someone who forced Neviril's hand last episode. Despite her obvious trauma.
But I get it. This more of a Dominura/Wapourif episode here. With a mention of Dominura's past that may explain her actions up until now. Given how the emerald Ri-Majoon is merciless should the Sibyllae fail its execution, I understand that Dominura lost all faith to Tempus Spatium and the Holy Land theocrahy as she may had gone through the same traumatic event Neviril had with Amuria. With the cynical realization the Sibyllae of Chor Dextra were used as mere tool of experimentation by the Holy Land government.
And in a classical vicious cycle pattern, Dominura is convinced she act for the greater good of her country. While she's just in turn experiment on innocent Sibyllae with the result we witnessed during the Sisters episode and the previous one.
Not to forget either how she convinced Wapourif to betray the beliefs that were ingrained in him for a long time. To perform what is considered a blasphemy in Holy Land. A taboo that is mentally taxing as we saw Wapourif bathe in the river beforehand to wash himself of his future sins and visit Morinas in her bed to apologizes in advance.
And all that for uncovering something he couldn't even see, mentally broke Dominura, and practically ostracized him from the rest of the crew.
Experiments in the Holy Land fails so often its start to become funny.
Questions of the day
What happened to Sibylla Amuria?
Either got vaporized to dust or sent to another world ?
Are simoun machines, or divine?
What do you make of Dominura's reaction to the helix?
The most logical answer would be she got a PTSD when looking at the machinery who was responsible of the deaths of her former comrades. But given her connection to the Emerald Ri-Majoon, maybe she saw some horrific truth about the souls of Sibyllae trapped inside the helix.
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u/Malipit 3d ago edited 3d ago
Theories corner
Theories in progress
From episode 1
Given the huge religious aspect of Simulacrum culture. I smell some shenanigans about higher ups knowing much more than they let appears and will be the actual villains of the story. And I'm sorry, but the character design of Onasia doesn't convey a ''good girl'' energy. But Onasia seemed the only reasonable people among the Holy Land Parliament. Making her either a Palpatine level manipulator or an actual good person.
Following the previous theory and how the Archipelago pilots were portrayed. I suspect there will be a team-up between Sibyllae and Archipelago pilots against a greater threat.
From episode 2
People on Daikuuriku may not be born the same way we are on Earth. I don't recall seeing someone pregnant in the two episode nor talking about pregnancy. Erif mentionned his body will progressively develop a male chest and voice, but said nothing about his genitals growing a penis. And the Chor Tempest captain said they needed an equivalent number of male and female citizens for the creation of a nation, not for reproductive needs. So maybe there is a place similar to a source where baby girls comes from ? One that will dispatch those new souls, randomly or equally, to every nation on the planet ? And Simulacrum retains a classic family structure with parents and children. Meaning that if they born other than sexual intercourse, it's likely each children is either assigned to a family like they are assigned a gender. Or that there is a reproduction through lewd hand-holding act.
The Archipelago pilots here to take pictures of Simulacrum battleship might be a foreshadowing for a future reveal about them developing similar looking battleships of their own. New development with this episode :Somehow, Dominura is aware of a new Archipelian aircraft stationned in their flying fortress. Could that be it ?
From episode 3
- The Simoun tech used by Simulacrum may not be used for act of violence. Another watcher mused about Amuria dying because she used the emerald Ri-Majoon to kill other living beings. And this episode have some Sibyllae lamenting that their battleship used to be a place for artistic performance with their ballroom. Could it be that Simulacrum theocracy misused the Simoun technology to assert their dominance over other nations ? And the way the Simoun core activated through Kaimu and Paraietta feelings enforce the fact those aircraft are powered by love rather than hatred. But given the outrage inside the Parliament when Neviril speak about becoming fighters as well as priestess, there is at least a part of the theocraty that believes the Simoun tech is still used for ceremonial purposes.
From episode 4
- Magnafeana had some interesting thoughts on the very origins of the Spring :
I wonder who the first one to go to the spring was and what life was like back then. What came first: was everyone born AFAB because God is a woman and my Eve x Lilith ship is finally validated, or people were born a spectrum of sexes, but a disease caused all future generations to be AFAB? And if so—how long ago did that happen?
From episode 7
- deus_machinarum speculated on how Tempus Spatium and Animus divine figures complete each other. Implying they derivate from an old religion or a old god who got fractured in two :
I need to talk about names of the god for a bit, I apologize if this has been mentioned already, I might've missed it: One the one hand we have Tempus Spatium(space time in modern parlance) and on the other hand we have Animus(simplistically: the soul, I'm also told by anime fandom that Japan has a very old animistic tradition i.e. ascribing life to inanimate objects which in modern times manifests as e.g. easier acceptance of robotic caretakers for eldery people); when we combine the two we get a whole so to speak, the inner world and outer world. It's easy to see how this could mean different but still related parts of the same wholeness. Definitely an angle I will keep an eye out for
From episode 8
- Given Aaeru's name signifcation, she could be of Plumbum descent.
New theories
- The emerald Ri-Majoon is the most powerful one. But a caster who would use it for purely destructive purpose would have her essence dissolved and merged into the Simoun core. That would explain Amuria's disappearing without leaving a trace and Chor Dextra disappearing -save Dominura- as they tried the emerald Ri-Majoon for military purpose. And Sibyllae having already casted the emerald Ri-Majoon would be sensitive enough to discern said Sibyllae essence trapped inside the helix. Hence why Dominura reacted so violently to the Helix interior and why Aaeru sensed her distress.
Confirmed theories
There is no other Spring outside Simulacrum and only its inhabitants get to chose their gender : confirmed by that Archipelago solider in episode 4 who was forucefully made a man through artificial means.
Ri-Majoon does comes from the Sibyllae soul/heart/lesbian power and not the Simoun itself : Althougt it comes for Dominura speculations, there is so much occurrences as for now it can be counted as confirmed.
Jossed theories
- Ri-Majoon are automatically generated by the Simoun aircraft and the Sibyllae jobs is to interpret them correctly to perform the corresponding figures : Aaeru lines in episode 4 confirm it's the Sibyllae who initiate the desired Ri-Majoon
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
Or did the search and destroy mission requested by Dominura suddenly turned into a simple recon operation from one episode to another?
I suppose that's what happens when the search part of the mission doesn't succeed.
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u/Malipit 3d ago
I mean, they explicitely said this episode this was just a recon mission. While Amuria ordered to Aaeru and Neviril to destroy the flying fortress last episode.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick 3d ago
Huh, and they were still talking about looking for that fortress, too...
Alright, I checked the episode again and my translation doesn't talk about recon anywhere, so it's probably a translation artifact.
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u/GondolaMedia zj: 3d ago
First Timer
More fuel to Morinas x Wapourif ship!
Dominura asking Wapourif to commit some heresy.
I never even thought about Sibylla Amuria's body, I just assumed it flung out of the cockpit.
QotD
1) I think she got sucked inside the Simoun and that might be how Simoun power themselves.
2) Something is divine because we have collectively decided is divine so Simoun are both.
3) I can see few options. Opening up Simoun might have been her last resort and she broke down because 1) There is nothing there, 2) Because she is Sibylla she can see truth what operates it.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
I just assumed it flung out of the cockpit.
I also assumed this.
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 3d ago
Avengers: Doomsday tickets are on sale, Ichi the Witch has a new chapter now, I'm drowning.
Sibylla First Timer, Chor Subbed
- I’d be more surprised if the Highlands and Shuukoku didn’t have an alliance.
As an aside, I keep mixing up these names with the {Twelve Kingdoms} kingdoms.
Simoun gems are just high-tech mood rings.
Is that way he said?
I guess someone will argue that because sibyllae are priestesses, reverence via desexualizing them is normal and that religious officials must be kept pure, as their ultimate relationship is to the Divine over man, is proof of their faith. But there are a lot of practices where it isn’t a sin to lie with a religious figure and where religious figures have autonomy in their sexual and romantic pursuits. And we do see adults see sibyllae is children rather than “Divine Feminine”, and other soldiers find it appropriate to sexualize the sibyllae… Either way, I like the representation of sexual and romantic repression that happens with religions. Granted, this feels role-reversed. I feel like most stories of religious trauma surrounding sex and romance, the devout FMC had been educated in abstinence, and men are pursuing her. Her autonomy is denied in her sexual and romantic desires. Very interesting to see how devout young men are, whereas the girls are more open to romantic pursuit but are still denied autonomy in their romantic and sexual desires. And the old men are either paternalistic or patriarchal 😭
Simoun gems are just big ass magical girl gems 💎 Make a wish, bitch.
The PR for Simouns is insane.
The Simoun gemstones are little pockets of time and space, aren’t they? Would Amuria have been absorbed into that pocket to supplement the energy for the Ri Mājon when Nev couldn’t commit to the bit? Are Simoun gems philosopher stones or something like that?
Lowkey shocked no one thought to dismantle a Simoun before. I can’t imagine every single person in the Holy Land believes them to be sacrosanct. But I imagine a previous tinker was quietly taken to a farm upstate or conscripted into the frontline for doing such a thing.
Again: I like the religious commentary, and I’m curious if this will parallel sex-negative rhetoric and the counterculture of it, sex positivity. The whole thing with pairing with someone you truly love and that’s the only way your Ri Mājon—especially the Emerald one—can happen is allegorical to physical intimacy in a relationship. I want to see that challenged so baaaaaaadly.
So confirmation of historical revisionism.
Well well well Domi, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.
Oh Waporif 🥺
That scream was chilling, I have goosebumps
I think the inside contains some type of Ri Mājon shape.
Post Episode Ri Mājon Thoughts
| Episode | Girlkiss Count | Total |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 6 | 6 |
| 2 | 2 | 8 |
| 3 | 1 | 9 |
| 4 | 2 | 11 |
| 5 | 1 | 12 |
| 6 | 4.5 | 16.5 |
| 7 | 4 | 20.5 |
| 8 | 0 | 20.5 |
| 9 | 5 | 25.5 |
| 10 | 5 | 30.5 |
| 11 | 5 | 35.5 |
| 12 | 1.5 | 37 |
| 13 | 3.5 | 40.5 |
| 14 | 1 | 41.5 |
| 15 | ||
| 16 | ||
| 17 | ||
| 18 | ||
| 19 | ||
| 20 | ||
| 21 | ||
| 22 | ||
| 23 | ||
| 24 | ||
| 25 | ||
| 26 |
What a sweet episode on characters whom I really like and touching on religious themes that I like.
Domi’s history makes her actions much clearer. I wonder how many other chors had been experimental SpecOps units to demystify the Simoun gems and other facets of the mysticism of the holy Land’s technology. Surely, there must have been more. But where does Onasia fit into this? I’d really like to know.
One world-building trait that crops up often is how religion is utilized as being antithetical to technological advancement, societal progress, autonomy, and general curiosity. We still don’t yet know if there have been previous mechanics or engineers who have fiddled with Simouns, and they were wiped out and the research locked up. But deifying Simouns to the extent that any sort of reverse engineering is considered sacrilege feels like a 3D chess move from the religious officials who popularized that philosophy in the first place. To protect whatever secret that Domi can see within it. Possibly, many other sibyllae could see and be horrified by that, which would demoralize them and be a domino effect to the infantry and society. That’s pretty damn genius.
We don’t know if the religious officials ever did do that, but I’d love to, if so, know which dynasty of the religion uncovered the truth and then covered it up by weaponizing religion.
And what Onasia thinks.
Onasia is like my Ja Rule. We ask what Ja Rule thinks. We ask what Onasia thinks.
Same thing.
But of course, Wapourif (I will get the hang of their name one day) is the MVP. She is confronting the sex-negative/romance-negative portion of his religion. Beyond queer romances, I don’t get the chance to see male characters wrestle with their faith and their romantic/sexual desire of someone else while the female character is much more certain in her desires while less religiously devout. And I mean—this is still a queer romance, so that holds up 😭
But as someone raised by the wrong types of Christians and Catholics (so not to be rude about Christianity and Catholicism as a whole or anything; I’m aware these people were weirdos), I can identity with Wapo in how my previous faith deliriously taught that, to remain faithful, we must be above temptation and save ourselves for marriage, and even in that marriage will God take part in. That women and girls were sacred, teaching us all that women and girls must dress conservatively so as not to tempt men into being “shaken in their walk with God” and that men and boys must resist temptation from women and girls.
It’s a very emotional time when you begin experimenting while still being stuck within those teachings of religion. Even having abandoned those teachings, it can be such a dissociative event to allow yourself to experiment with romance, sex, love, and pleasure in a way that your old faith would have excommunicated you for. I’ve met people in relationships where they’re in a relationship, but because their relationship isn’t “approved” by their faith, they still find their relationship sinful and repeatedly seek forgiveness for their "temptation".
But…they’re still together! Doing such lewd things like holding hands and buying a house together, going to Drag bingo, and helping each other with taxes, shit like that, you know, the real sinful stuff.
So in Wapo’s crying after the kiss and his words of “Simouns are machines”, in his little mini baptism/cleaning in the river before committing sacrilege—he resonates a lot.
I really hope that Wapo either (1) has a positive relationship with his religion that allows him autonomy or (2) leaves his religion and regains his autonomy.
More importantly: what does Onasia think?
QOTD
- I think she was absorbed.
- I don’t think one cancels out the other. Simouns can be divine machines. But I also like the commentary on binaryism over dualism or pluralism in this religion.
- I really think that what’s inside is some type of Ri Mājon form that only she and her phantom chor would have recognized from all that secret experimentation.
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u/Malipit 3d ago
The Simoun gemstones are little pockets of time and space, aren’t they? Would Amuria have been absorbed into that pocket to supplement the energy for the Ri Mājon when Nev couldn’t commit to the bit? Are Simoun gems philosopher stones or something like that?
Comes to think of it, the Emerald Ri-Majoon, the most powerful of them is basically a black hole. So could it be that the Simoun cores are mini worm-holes that sucked Amuria and the unfortunate members of Chor Dextra ?
I think the inside contains some type of Ri Mājon shape.
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 3d ago
Oh I like that wormhole thought. I dislike that the sibyllae would be unceremoniously sucked into somewhere, but maybe there’s potential to retrieve them?
Or maybe connect and speak with them once more and they internally destroy the gemstones/Simouns so no more girls are sent to being sibyllae.
I will honestly be very surprised if the Simouns are still a thing by the end of the series. I feel like they will all be destroyed for better or for worse.
1
u/Malipit 2d ago
I will honestly be very surprised if the Simouns are still a thing by the end of the series. I feel like they will all be destroyed for better or for worse.
Or they will be back to their original functions as ceremonial devices that bring peace and prosperity accros all nations and not just Simulacrum
5
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 3d ago
First Timer, subs
- It’s traveling in the middle of a damned hurricane. It’s not exactly something you lose track of.
- I’m more surprised that they weren’t already allies.
- "Secrets?!"
- You couldn’t do it, but you still say that you did. Somehow, this does read like something Floe would get up to.
- Stop making Mamiina so perfect! It’s not fair to the other girls.
- Have you considered disassembling a destroyed unit? You should have a few of those by this point.
- I’m not sure what the shadow play was meant to symbolize there. It was too overt not to mean something.
- Miniatures! I see we’re getting the cute eyecatcher set today.
- Damn it, Morinas, you were supposed to be the materialist one.
- Does your reconnaissance mission not have a designated return time?
- Not much of a secret if some backwater captain is able to get info on it.
- Is this some weird censorship rule, that since Wapourif is a man, you’re allowed to show them topless?
- Y’all are heavy sleepers. None of you woke up when someone entered your room? That door is solid metal.
- So the spring also installs some kind of mental block, does it? Or do you need to specifically also be a Sibylla?
QotD:
1) Sucked into the Helical Engine.
2) Eldritch
3) She most have seen something in there that made it known that the Simouns aren’t just giving warp abilities for free.
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u/AgentOfACROSS 3d ago
First Timer
Neviril looks like she’s still upset with Aer. Not that I completely blame her.
I think I might just be oblivious but apparently Waporif is meant to be male.
We’re bringing back that thing about Waporif and Floe having been in love in the past too which is interesting.
Interesting method for catching fish. I’ve never seen it before.
Dominura and Waporif’s conversation about the Simouns being machines is interesting.
Dominura feels like she’s definitely conspiring.
Oh good I’m glad they’re bringing up that hidden base.
Okay so Amuria’s body wasn’t found. She just went missing.
My rule of thumb for fiction is that if there’s no body, then that means they might still be alive.
I like the interactions between Dominura and Waporif in this episode. We haven't really seen this before.
Oh damn. Morinas sees right through Waporifi. I like the interactions with these two as well.
Paraietta is apparently looking to Yun as a potential replacement if anything happens to Neviril.
I’m surprised. This feels like the first time Yun has been relevant.
I think the question of whether or not the Simouns are divine or just machines is interesting.
I also really like the sharp music being used for this scene.
This sudden lore drop about Chor Dextra seems important.
Waporif, you really shouldn’t watch people in their sleep.
Dominura’s reaction here is really interesting.
This is probably my favorite episode of the show so far.
4
u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer 3d ago
first timer
so Morinas does want to be a guy, called it
"i cant do anything that will defile a simoun" wapourif is having sex before this show is over
Yun i kneel
maybe even before the episode is over - are they going to kill wapourif
is dominura all of dextrose
if theres no overwhelming power, did she realize she killed them all?
wapourif learn to lie pls
2
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 3d ago
First Timer
Well, now you've got me wanting a Simoun model kit!
Cute
Once more, we are back to Simoun's thematic bread and butter in the deep conflict between the religious and practical perception of the Simoun and Sibyllae themselves. Ever since we got on the Messis, Dominura has been restlessly trying to further a more militarized and practical view of the Simoun, stepping over all sorts of emotions to try and ascertain how the Simoun fully work and can be used, and we really push that to yet another extreme over Wapourif's feelings here in Dominura's request to actually dismantle a Simoun for the first time.
To be fair to Dominura, even putting aside the extra background we learn about who she answers to and what her grander goal here might be, she is fundamentally not wrong about the Holy Land's state. Their complacency in their dogma has already caused problems with the war anyway, and now with their two main enemies likely working together, the Simoun's base superiority is hardly guaranteed or should be relied on. Or, well, that idea itself (That the prayers aren't enough) obviously deviates from the stricter spiritual viewpoint of the Simoun's role according to the Holy Land's religious leadership, but Wapourif concurs with it being their reality, and that really drives their larger emotional conflict for this episode.
I quite like their initial chapel conversation about it, the framing clearly dividing along the line of how they view the sanctity of the Simoun. Wapourif also brings up here an idea that we partially also did back with Mastif and the soldiers' view of the Sybillae, and I guess one that's prevalent throughout the episode in general, and that's sort of the necessity of belief for the sake of resolve. They need the Simoun to be these divine and untouchable instruments because it's really what drives them and their society, be it in conflict or otherwise, and reconstructing a more practical view of it (Even if its not entirely contradictory or denying in nature) is a difficult idea to swallow to its very core, even if as Dominura says, it's something that's dangerously holding them back. It's a nice complexity I appreciate the show is tackling within this character conflict, and the whole thing just has a solid felt weight to it.
Also, as a more general detail, while the one on the Messis isn't necessarily a slouch itself, I do like the visual difference to the church on the Arcus Prima, and it was quite a bit more grand. Mostly just as a nice bit of visual consistency, but on a wider comparison between the two ships, it feels somewhat indicative of the changing state of Chor Tempest and their worldviews over this last stretch of episodes.
Morinas's role in the conflict here is pretty interesting as well, because her view of the Simoun was at the start one of the more nuanced in the cast. Neither a soldier nor a priestess was her description of herself when we first met her; being a Sybilla to her was simply about getting to fly a Simoun. Within that is innately some of the symbolic connotations of the Simoun then, with her being here for the freedom and the emotional connections that define it. This episode, though, she's somewhat changed and has grown to view them as more divine over actually being a pilot for one. I suppose that doesn't have to mean she's entirely moved to the priestess side of our larger thematic conflict, but it's very much an interesting change to think through, especially in contrast to Wapourif here, whose more inherently practical work with the Simoun as a mechanic has caused a change in worldview towards the opposite direction.
But she's also important within the context of Wapourif's feelings, and how the view of the Sybillae as revered figures has stopped Wapourif from crossing the line towards actual relationships with them, despite his desires. I do have to wonder on some level just how much that extra personal conflict affects Wapourif choice in the end beyond the grander stakes and spiritual beliefs, but either way, we get to make a nice parallel with Wapourif accepting and acting on his feelings for Morinas, in essence, "Defiling something divine", before going through with taking apart the Simoun and choosing to view them as machines. Definitely looking forward to seeing what the reaction from Morinas on both sides of that parallel will end up being.
For now, Dominura sees... something inside the helical motor which leaves completely shocked and also continues giving her the absolute best Dezaki frames in the show Not really sure what that's about, and we'll to wait to see if any of the other Sybillae have a similar reaction, though if I had to guess its probably something to do with her old Chor and the Emerald Ri Majoon? In which case, maybe we also need to wait for Neviril to be back beforehand. Otherwise, some more fun interactions here, like Mamiina's fish trap getting the awe of everyone, and while it's very short, the Yun and Para one was also pretty interesting, with Yun straight-up pushing back against Paraietta's special treatment of Neviril. Could be a fun conflict if and when we do a Yun episode.
I will say, it's kind of interesting how, I don't know, episodically contained I guess, this stretch of the show has been? Like, last episode we were all about the emotional character drama around Aaeru and Neviril, rather than continuing to resolve it here, it's mostly present in passing, and instead we focus on an entirely different conflict and narrative beat. We did the same for Kaimu and Alti going into last episode, and Floe into the Kaimu/Alti one beforehand. This isn't a complaint mind you, I think we mostly keep cohesion and flow well, the conflicts are still relevant if not directly in focus, and thematically these do connect to each other, but I just find the show's the show's choice to really not extend these over more than one episode, in more segmented arcs as it were but to instead to let them stew in the back like this, pretty curious.